Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (183 Viewers)

Bugsy · Jan 12, 2021

sorry if this has been touched upon but one thing whats pissed me off :

COVID-19: People arriving in England need negative tests to enter country from Friday

The government says the regulation has been imposed in the face of "worrying new strains" of COVID.

news.sky.com

why the fuck havent we been doing this from the start and why wait till fucking Friday for ffs

clint van damme · Jan 12, 2021

Bugsy said:
sorry if this has been touched upon but one thing whats pissed me off :

COVID-19: People arriving in England need negative tests to enter country from Friday

The government says the regulation has been imposed in the face of "worrying new strains" of COVID.

news.sky.com

why the fuck havent we been doing this from the start and why wait till fucking Friday for ffs

We 'be did everything too late with the exception of pre ordering a shit load of vaccines.
It's the one thing they've got right and the roll out seems to be going okay though it could be improved upon.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 12, 2021

clint van damme said:
We 'be did everything too late with the exception of pre ordering a shit load of vaccines.
It's the one thing they've got right and the roll out seems to be going okay though it could be improved upon.

I'm still nervous with them breaking with the trials and time between jabs - although that does actually seem to be driven by their medical advisors.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 12, 2021

David O'Day said:
Oh pipe the fuck down you jizz trumpet, the went for a walk that doesn't break the law and you act like c**t.

Guidance seems to now be the village, town, or area of the city that you live in.

Hey ho...

clint van damme · Jan 12, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'm still nervous with them breaking with the trials and time between jabs - although that does actually seem to be driven by their medical advisors.

I've heard a lot of medical people supporting it so hopefully it should be fine.
One fella on 5live yesterday actually said he thinks it will be more effective- hopefully he's right.
I just hope that when the second round of jabs are required they have the resources to keep doing first timers at the same rate otherwise there's going to be a massive drop off in people being immunized for a few months

CCFCSteve · Jan 12, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
When Cummings took the piss completely and got away with it I think that gave a green light for others to do comparatively less and hope to get away with it as well.

I agree that didn’t help (and he should’ve resigned) but I doubt it has a huge impact on people’s behaviours now. The messaging is very clear again ie ‘stay at home people are dying’ (it wasn’t as clear over Xmas) and yet roads etc are still busy

It feels like the country has massive lockdown fatigue and it’s why you can only rely on it as a solution when you need it most (probably only for short bursts). Not knocking witty and vallance who’ve done a good job in difficult circumstances, but stuff like the Nov press conference didn’t help, saying shout 4k deaths per day etc etc. It didn’t happen then by a long shot, so people then question future messaging. That message feels like it could genuinely happen with this new variant spreading far easier if people dont start following the rules, but the threat has lost its power of persuasion.

Also, it’s all well and good making lockdown measures stricter but then when someone breaks the stricter rules, they might become more lax at the stuff they were following (‘I’ve already broken the rules so....’)

I’d imagine the biggest issue at the moment isn’t people going for a walk in the park or exercising outdoors (unless the parks crowded !) but people going to work....some because they need to but many because employers or staff want to be ‘in the office’

I struggle to point the finger though (apart from the anti vax/no mask wearers) as it’s middle of winter, people have plenty of challenges; health, mental health, financial etc. We’ve just got to all do our best and ask the same of others

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 12, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
still feels the biggest issue at the moment isn’t people going for a walk in the park or exercising outdoors (unless the parks crowded !) but people going to work....some because they need to but many because employers or staff want to be ‘in the office’

Mrs Wisdom finally gets guidance, and it's stay at home, unless things that are on a specific list of tasks have to be done.

It begs the question why it hasn't always been that!

CCFCSteve · Jan 12, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
Mrs Wisdom finally gets guidance, and it's stay at home, unless things that are on a specific list of tasks have to be done.

It begs the question why it hasn't always been that!

that’s great news ! (Must be a weight off your mind !). I’ve said before I know of three office based companies that are still having people in on rota, albeit reduced numbers, however, all could WFH. Crazy in the current circumstances when transmission rate is so high

shmmeee · Jan 12, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
I agree that didn’t help (and he should’ve resigned) but I doubt it has a huge impact on people’s behaviours now. The messaging is very clear again ie ‘stay at home people are dying’ (it wasn’t as clear over Xmas) and yet roads etc are still busy

It feels like the country has massive lockdown fatigue and it’s why you can only rely on it as a solution when you need it most (probably only for short bursts). Not knocking witty and vallance who’ve done a good job in difficult circumstances, but stuff like the Nov press conference didn’t help, saying shout 4k deaths per day etc etc. It didn’t happen then by a long shot, so people then question future messaging. That message feels like it could genuinely happen with this new variant spreading far easier if people dont start following the rules, but the threat has lost its power of persuasion.

Also, it’s all well and good making lockdown measures stricter but then when someone breaks the stricter rules, they might become more lax at the stuff they were following (‘I’ve already broken the rules so....’)

I’d imagine the biggest issue at the moment isn’t people going for a walk in the park or exercising outdoors (unless the parks crowded !) but people going to work....some because they need to but many because employers or staff want to be ‘in the office’

I struggle to point the finger though (apart from the anti vax/no mask wearers) as it’s middle of winter, people have plenty of challenges; health, mental health, financial etc. We’ve just got to all do our best and ask the same of others

My work is a great example.

First lockdown we all got sent home immediately. Everyone worked from home no questions. This time it’s “well the guidelines say you have to be in if you can’t work from home and really you can’t work as well from home as you could in the office plus we’ve separated the desks so it’s OK yeah? But let us know if you’ve got concerns”

Ive argued with HR that National Lockdown is more serious than Tier 3/4 to no avail. They insist government guidance hasn’t changed.

I honestly think they believe this and it’s down to messaging. No clear advice on what “essential work” really is so every business thinks it’s them.

clint van damme · Jan 12, 2021

shmmeee said:
My work is a great example.

First lockdown we all got sent home immediately. Everyone worked from home no questions. This time it’s “well the guidelines say you have to be in if you can’t work from home and really you can’t work as well from home as you could in the office plus we’ve separated the desks so it’s OK yeah? But let us know if you’ve got concerns”

Ive argued with HR that National Lockdown is more serious than Tier 3/4 to no avail. They insist government guidance hasn’t changed.

I honestly think they believe this and it’s down to messaging. No clear advice on what “essential work” really is so every business thinks it’s them.

Like Brexit this is all down to pacifying the various wings of the Tory party.
It also helps when blaming the public as we saw yesterday. Half of whom are gullible forelock tugging fuck with a who deserve it any way.
Looks like there's another plundering of the public purse underway today. Government are issuing hard up families with £30 worth of food. Only there's only about 5 quid worth in the package. Where's the other £25 per package going?

I bet they roll out some stunt involving Farage in the next day or two as a distraction.

CCFCSteve · Jan 12, 2021

shmmeee said:
My work is a great example.

First lockdown we all got sent home immediately. Everyone worked from home no questions. This time it’s “well the guidelines say you have to be in if you can’t work from home and really you can’t work as well from home as you could in the office plus we’ve separated the desks so it’s OK yeah? But let us know if you’ve got concerns”

Ive argued with HR that National Lockdown is more serious than Tier 3/4 to no avail. They insist government guidance hasn’t changed.

I honestly think they believe this and it’s down to messaging. No clear advice on what “essential work” really is so every business thinks it’s them.

They obviously don’t trust you . Employers are wriggling out of it. The government have left it a bit open but most know (morally as much as legally) that staff should be working from home in the current situation if its possible for them to do so

Otis · Jan 12, 2021

hill83 said:
“I’m medically exempt m8”

Never ever seen so many people with asthma. I think there has been an eleventy billion percent increase in sufferers since March.

Heard so may people walk into store, be confronted by a security guard and answer with "We've both got asthma".

LastGarrison · Jan 12, 2021

I’d agree about work places.

My mates missus works for a well know hospice and although it hasn’t been said directly it has basically been insinuated that SLT should still be going to work and so much so that she went in last week just to ‘show face’ when there was absolutely no need to.

My mate works in a factory and has worked throughout so is exposed to people daily so the risk their of it getting passed through the hospice is huge.

I actually thought, as per the other thread, that after this the whole way we would would change forever but I am beginning to think that as soon as near normality resumes it will back to being you need to be in the office.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 12, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
I agree that didn’t help (and he should’ve resigned) but I doubt it has a huge impact on people’s behaviours now. The messaging is very clear again ie ‘stay at home people are dying’ (it wasn’t as clear over Xmas) and yet roads etc are still busy

It feels like the country has massive lockdown fatigue and it’s why you can only rely on it as a solution when you need it most (probably only for short bursts). Not knocking witty and vallance who’ve done a good job in difficult circumstances, but stuff like the Nov press conference didn’t help, saying shout 4k deaths per day etc etc. It didn’t happen then by a long shot, so people then question future messaging. That message feels like it could genuinely happen with this new variant spreading far easier if people dont start following the rules, but the threat has lost its power of persuasion.

Also, it’s all well and good making lockdown measures stricter but then when someone breaks the stricter rules, they might become more lax at the stuff they were following (‘I’ve already broken the rules so....’)

I’d imagine the biggest issue at the moment isn’t people going for a walk in the park or exercising outdoors (unless the parks crowded !) but people going to work....some because they need to but many because employers or staff want to be ‘in the office’

I struggle to point the finger though (apart from the anti vax/no mask wearers) as it’s middle of winter, people have plenty of challenges; health, mental health, financial etc. We’ve just got to all do our best and ask the same of others

The biggest problems causing spikes in my view were:

1. Schools acting as a transmission vector between hundreds of households at a time.

2. Ineffective measures in supermarkets to enforce number limits and mask wearing.

3. People meeting more indoors as it got colder, and contracting common winter illnesses that basically act as COVID comorbidities.

4. Workplaces insisting on people coming in when their work didn’t require it.

As far as Cummings is concerned, I’m not saying defiance of measures now is down to him, but it did kick things off in the spring. People saw him get away with blatant rule breaking and understandably thought ‘if he does it so can I’. More recently ‘celebrities’ have been completely taking the piss but remaining on full pay with few sanctions. Yes there is lockdown fatigue but ‘yeah well he did it and got away with it’ is the first excuse anyone needs

Sky Blue Pete · Jan 12, 2021

shmmeee said:
My work is a great example.

First lockdown we all got sent home immediately. Everyone worked from home no questions. This time it’s “well the guidelines say you have to be in if you can’t work from home and really you can’t work as well from home as you could in the office plus we’ve separated the desks so it’s OK yeah? But let us know if you’ve got concerns”

Ive argued with HR that National Lockdown is more serious than Tier 3/4 to no avail. They insist government guidance hasn’t changed.

I honestly think they believe this and it’s down to messaging. No clear advice on what “essential work” really is so every business thinks it’s them.

I still think the health and safety at work Act is clear on this. Different to implement of course

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 12, 2021

Otis said:
Never ever seen so many people with asthma. I think there has been an eleventy billion percent increase in sufferers since March.

Heard so may people walk into store, be confronted by a security guard and answer with "We've both got asthma".

My missus has asthma and gets attacks of it semi regularly. She still wears a mask in the shop, on the bus and in school.

David O'Day · Jan 12, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
Guidance seems to now be the village, town, or area of the city that you live in.

Hey ho...

guidance not is law though which is why their fines were dropped

ajsccfc · Jan 12, 2021

As someone with asthma masks produce absolutely no issue for me at all. If it was mandatory to walk around covered in pet hair though I'd need a special badge

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 12, 2021

ajsccfc said:
As someone with asthma masks produce absolutely no issue for me at all. If it was mandatory to walk around covered in pet hair though I'd need a special badge

Yeah. Horses are the worst for Mrs BSB but thankfully none of them for sale in Sainsbury’s

SBT · Jan 12, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Yeah. Horses are the worst for Mrs BSB but thankfully none of them for sale in Sainsbury’s

Have you tried Tesco’s burger aisle?

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 12, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
that’s great news ! (Must be a weight off your mind !). I’ve said before I know of three office based companies that are still having people in on rota, albeit reduced numbers, however, all could WFH. Crazy in the current circumstances when transmission rate is so high

It's utterly ridiculous. Even on the list, I can't see anything that can't wait a bit anyway, so I've instructed her to be assertive if asked. But whyon earth it's been compulsory for her to go in to sit at a computer screen, God only knows!

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 12, 2021

David O'Day said:
guidance not is law though which is why their fines were dropped

But it is restricting where I intended to go for walks!

Anyway, on today's round the housing estate, lots of people coming back after dropping children off at school. I get that a key worker won't necessarily start just after their child goes to school, but... I do know of a couple of people who are not key workers, but their partners are. Given Iknow their work has been highly flexible about the amount of work they do from home, and accepting about childcare taking precedence over work, it seems slightly odd to me that *their* children go in to school, and potentially spread the virus about a bit!

CCFCSteve · Jan 12, 2021

Astute said:
The same reason we have had it bad all the way through.

I disagree though astute. If other countries avoid this new variant and can get the vaccine out quickly then I think they will swerve the mess that we’re currently in as much through luck/timing.

Ireland, which unfortunately for them is the nearest country to us (most travel etc), now has the new variant and I think has higher transmission rates per capita than us/anywhere in the world (and similar hospital issues on horizon)

If we hadn’t flagged the variant quickly it may have been rife all over Europe by now. It might well still spread. Let’s hope not as if poor developing nations get it, god knows what will happen.

Ps thats not to say that when they found out about it the government shouldn’t have issued a stronger stay at home messaging immediately. unfortunately we were moving into Xmas period and mid winter so everyone’s indoors, so pretty sure the spread would’ve eventually been the same looking at the numbers of people still out and about...albeit mayve slowed it slightly (I’m no scientist as you know but that’s based on what I’ve heard/read)

Edit - also I can’t recall the exact timings around knowledge of variant etc but if they knew that the transmission rates were higher amongst kids, should’ve moved to online learning asap/week before Xmas

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 12, 2021

SBT said:
Have you tried Tesco’s burger aisle?

Neigh bother

SBT · Jan 12, 2021

A couple of studies I found interesting:

One BMJ study says the public have generally been pretty observant of lockdown measures, and deserves more credit for it. There’s one key exception though - people not self-isolating when they (or a close contact) test positive. And that’s often because they don’t have enough help to do so.

Pandemic fatigue? How adherence to covid-19 regulations has been misrepresented and why it matters - The BMJ

As England and Scotland start another period of lockdown, we all have to come to terms with following stricter covid-19 restrictions, most likely for a relatively long period of time. [...]More...

blogs.bmj.com

And a recent study from Imperial, which shows the Secondary Attack Rate (i.e the likelihood of someone passing along a COVID infection) in different settings. In a household, it’s 21.1%, and especially bad when the exposure is for several days. By contrast, it’s 5.9% for social gatherings with friends and families, and 1.2% for “casual close contacts” (the example they give here is supermarkets).

COVID-19 spread in different social settings - new Imperial report | Imperial News | Imperial College London

In a global analysis of where SARS-CoV-2 transmission takes place, households show the highest transmission rates.

www.imperial.ac.uk

hill83 · Jan 12, 2021

Otis said:
Never ever seen so many people with asthma. I think there has been an eleventy billion percent increase in sufferers since March.

Heard so may people walk into store, be confronted by a security guard and answer with "We've both got asthma".

If I had asthma I’d be wearing 2 masks

CCFCSteve · Jan 12, 2021

SBT said:
A couple of studies I found interesting:

One BMJ study says the public have generally been pretty observant of lockdown measures, and deserves more credit for it. There’s one key exception though - people not self-isolating when they (or a close contact) test positive. And that’s often because they don’t have enough help to do so.

Pandemic fatigue? How adherence to covid-19 regulations has been misrepresented and why it matters - The BMJ

As England and Scotland start another period of lockdown, we all have to come to terms with following stricter covid-19 restrictions, most likely for a relatively long period of time. [...]More...

blogs.bmj.com

And a recent study from Imperial, which shows the Secondary Attack Rate (i.e the likelihood of someone passing along a COVID infection) in different settings. In a household, it’s 21.1%, and especially bad when the exposure is for several days. By contrast, it’s 5.9% for social gatherings with friends and families, and 1.2% for “casual close contacts” (the example they give here is supermarkets).

COVID-19 spread in different social settings - new Imperial report | Imperial News | Imperial College London

In a global analysis of where SARS-CoV-2 transmission takes place, households show the highest transmission rates.

www.imperial.ac.uk

Yeah, for a free society I do think we’ve done pretty well overall. The latest movement data suggests people are far more active now than first lockdown though

Id also like to see indoor household mixing stats for Xmas period though. That’s not blaming anyone. I always thought it should be people’s own call (but they shouldve considered/weighed up the consequences and taken every step to minimise risk of spread to those of higher risk.)

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 12, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
Yeah, for a free society I do think we’ve done pretty well overall.

France came up earlier, I'd like to see how they measure their compliance as, the people I know with connections there, say that the public flagrantly disregard and ignore the rules anyway, no matter how draconian they are... and that's why they've gone super-authoritarian. Now it could be different in different regions, and could be isolated cases / perception, of course.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 12, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
France came up earlier, I'd like to see how they measure their compliance as, the people I know with connections there, say that the public flagrantly disregard and ignore the rules anyway, no matter how draconian they are... and that's why they've gone super-authoritarian. Now it could be different in different regions, and could be isolaed cases / perception, of course.

They’re having big problems with vaccine scepticism also

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 12, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
They’re having big problems with vaccine scepticism also

Yup. For better or worse, Britain is usually quite compliant with authority. Of course the past few years have had increased emphasis on individual, rather than societal, rights, and that probably doesn't help at a time like now.

clint van damme · Jan 12, 2021

clint van damme said:
Like Brexit this is all down to pacifying the various wings of the Tory party.
It also helps when blaming the public as we saw yesterday. Half of whom are gullible forelock tugging fuck with a who deserve it any way.
Looks like there's another plundering of the public purse underway today. Government are issuing hard up families with £30 worth of food. Only there's only about 5 quid worth in the package. Where's the other £25 per package going?

I bet they roll out some stunt involving Farage in the next day or two as a distraction.

Surprise sur fucking prise.
Chairman of company involved is a Tory donor

robbiekeane · Jan 12, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
messaging is very clear again ie ‘stay at home people are dying’ (it wasn’t as clear over Xmas) and yet roads etc are still busy

But it’s not though mate is it. Why are coffee shops open? Why is McDonald’s open? If you’re only allowed out for exercise why are these things open?

Allowed out for exercise in your local area. What does that mean? Someone said it was your local town but boris cycled 7 miles away. Can I cycle 7 miles away? Can I run 7 miles away? do I need to wear a mask on my walk?

Went for a morning walk on the parade the other day because I need to get out the house at some point to clear my head before I start work. Parade was pretty busy...could probably see 30 people or so. But everyone was following the rule I guess, if they were, like myself, just out for a morning walk.

People see that though and it doesn’t feel like a lockdown.

Hancock and people coming out with “following the rules to the letter isn’t enough, you need to act in the spirit of the lockdown” is fucking bullshit and again is just a way of them leaving a back door open to blame the public in the future if it goes to shit.

Why aren’t there regular police patrols or even fuck it military patrols on the streets? Checking people asking for a reason they are out of the house? That’d send the right message

Nick · Jan 12, 2021

This lockdown isn't the same as the last one, it's more relaxed.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jan 12, 2021

Heartbreaking

Covid: Mum's 'heartbreaking' death next to daughter in hospital

Maria Rico took off her oxygen mask to say goodbye - despite knowing this would hasten her death.

www.bbc.co.uk

Ian1779 · Jan 12, 2021

clint van damme said:
Surprise sur fucking prise.
Chairman of company involved is a Tory donor

Chartwells are caterers at our school. Food provided is over priced and god awful quality. Their ideas of a balanced diet is offering 3 choices of carbs at lunch. And it’s been even worse since Cov-ID.
You’d think our school/trust would ditch them, but our founder is also a Tory donor...

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