Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (275 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 7, 2021

skybluetony176 said:
Yeah but did you clap for them?

Let's be honest, when we saw them all clapping for the NHS many on here said when push comes to shove and it's pay increase time most will argue against giving them much and so it's proved.

So I say lets reduce MP pay to average pay for the UK and top it up by clapping them on the doorstep once a week. I'm sure they'll appreciate it just as much as they said the nurses did.

Or if anyone has a tax bill to pay go to the HMRC and stand outside and clap as an alternative method of payment.

CCFCSteve · Mar 7, 2021

shmmeee said:
There is simply no evidence for this. We lost our AAA rating last time despite some of the toughest austerity measures around. There is simply no evidence that our ability to lend is suddenly going to dry up and there never has been. The fundamentals of an economy matter far more than the deficit.

Every single debt has been dealt with by economic growth not economic contraction. There’s no logical reason to think this will be different.

“magic up” - where exactly do you think money comes from? Do you think we mine tenners out the ground?

Also curious how you reconcile this apparent super importance of the deficit with the financial data we have going back the last century. How many surpluses have we run and what correlation to our credit rating do you think it has?

<2% of GDP to service out debt is nothing compared to the costs of lack of investment.

View attachment 19023

Typed this yesterday but then got caught up with all the City excitement so never posted ! (Probably gone past the point in the Covid chat now and pretty dull reading it back but )

I never said it would dry up Shmmeee but it will start costing more, potentially significantly more. I’m guessing the less effort made to address debt the likely worsening rating, and in turn the higher borrowing costs. Showing we are at least aware that this needs to be addressed (even if we are barely making a dent) keeps our rating higher than it otherwise would be

I’ve mentioned before there are elements in the budget that support investment. My exchange with Ian was more relating to whether CT rises should be acceptable. Considering the support all business have received during the pandemic, I don’t think it’s unreasonable for the largest/those making the most profit to pay a slightly larger percentage of those profits back in the coming years. Especially when we are more than comparable with other large nations (in future would I support lowering again, probably, although I expect some changes around wider tax policy which might change things a little anyway*)

I think we agree that to get out of the mess the main driver has got to be growth. This is likely to be driven by productivity and investment, both of which were partially (but maybe not as much as I’d like) addressed in the budget. I’d expect more in coming budgets as this still feels very much like a firefighting one

*there might well be changes to the whole tax system in the coming years by all accounts. I think consultation starts on wider tax policy changes end of this month. Lets hope this promotes/encourages growth

ps bringing it back to Covid, positive numbers again yesterday. Almost 500k vacs and 6k cases. Oh, and still smiling about the win, not pretty but massive result. Let’s hope we can build on it !

bezzer · Mar 8, 2021

Ian1779 said:
I think the pay rise for nurses furore is exacerbated by the shit salary they get in the first place. Factor in the loss of bursaries and likely debt that would be attached to train for this role and you can see overall what a shit package it is.

All students studying for a medical degree do get bursaries. My daughter is studying Midwifery at DMU and has a bursary.

shmmeee · Mar 8, 2021

Yeah the bursary came back end of 2020, worth between 30% and 50% of the old one mind.

shmmeee · Mar 8, 2021

Bring back paying off teachers student loans I say!

SG21 · Mar 8, 2021

Speaking of students, can anyone clear this up:

I heard student loans that don't get paid off (most I hear) end up being paid off by tax payers?
Is this true and is so, just what were they smoking when they allowed that?

bezzer · Mar 8, 2021

Evo1883 said:
We're currently in a situation where you can work at aldi and be paid more than if you go to university, and work long hours changing people's lives as a nurse.

A newly qualified nurse enters the NHS as a band 5. The salary is currently £24,907. That works out at around £12.70 an hour for a 37.5 hour week. Do Aldi now pay over 12 quid an hour? My son worked there for 6 months last year and was on £9.50 an hour.

shmmeee · Mar 8, 2021

bezzer said:
A newly qualified nurse enters the NHS as a band 5. The salary is currently £24,907. That works out at around £12.70 an hour for a 37.5 hour week. Do Aldi now pay over 12 quid an hour? My son worked there for 6 months last year and was on £9.50 an hour.

£10.41 minimum at Aldi if you’ve been there three years. Of course if you’ve got something about you in those three years you might end up assistant manager on £35k. And you only earn £5k/yr while you’re training as a nurse but £9.50/hour while you’re working at Aldi.

Not making a point. Just doing the maths cos I’m on my lunch and I’m a saddo.

Evo1883 · Mar 8, 2021

bezzer said:
A newly qualified nurse enters the NHS as a band 5. The salary is currently £24,907. That works out at around £12.70 an hour for a 37.5 hour week. Do Aldi now pay over 12 quid an hour? My son worked there for 6 months last year and was on £9.50 an hour.

Why bezzer.... Why?

bezzer · Mar 8, 2021

shmmeee said:
Yeah the bursary came back end of 2020, worth between 30% and 50% of the old one mind.

My daughter gets the £5000 bursary plus £1000 from DMU. It's not a fortune, but she can feed herself pretty well, have the odd beer and run a car.

Evo1883 · Mar 8, 2021

bezzer said:
My daughter gets the £5000 bursary plus £1000 from DMU. It's not a fortune, but she can feed herself pretty well, have the odd beer and run a car.

I think it would be fair to add a nice holiday abroad every year to that dont you, with a decent pay rise that is

bezzer · Mar 8, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Why bezzer.... Why?

Why what?

Evo1883 · Mar 8, 2021

bezzer said:
Why what?

Nothing... Carry on

bezzer · Mar 8, 2021

Evo1883 said:
I think it would be fair to add a nice holiday abroad every year to that dont you, with a decent pay rise that is

No. She'll be working during her holidays

Evo1883 · Mar 8, 2021

bezzer said:
No. She'll be working during her holidays

A nurse?

bezzer · Mar 8, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Nothing... Carry on

Ahhh I see. You don't like your post being shown to be BS

bezzer · Mar 8, 2021

Evo1883 said:
A nurse?

Nursing home.

Evo1883 · Mar 8, 2021

bezzer said:
Ahhh I see. You don't like your post being shown to be BS

Ok.. Calm down.. They work long hours, often putting in extra for nothing..

Yea it's probably a bit more but with the added pressure and responsibility it's surely worth more than what it currently is..

Apologies for not being bang on the money mate.

Evo1883 · Mar 8, 2021

shmmeee said:
£10.41 minimum at Aldi if you’ve been there three years. Of course if you’ve got something about you in those three years you might end up assistant manager on £35k. And you only earn £5k/yr while you’re training as a nurse but £9.50/hour while you’re working at Aldi.

Not making a point. Just doing the maths cos I’m on my lunch and I’m a saddo.

I was off a bit with the money.. But I think the point is that nurses could do with a bit more... That's it

SBAndy · Mar 8, 2021

SG21 said:
Speaking of students, can anyone clear this up:

I heard student loans that don't get paid off (most I hear) end up being paid off by tax payers?
Is this true and is so, just what were they smoking when they allowed that?

Yes, that’s essentially right. Think they have a maximum lifespan of 25 years or something, and if there’s a remaining balance beyond that then it’s written off. It’s treated as a tax rather than a loan, with repayments tied to earnings. Society as a whole benefits from further education so don’t see the real issue with the current setup.

Ccfcisparks · Mar 8, 2021

SBAndy said:
Yes, that’s essentially right. Think they have a maximum lifespan of 25 years or something, and if there’s a remaining balance beyond that then it’s written off. It’s treated as a tax rather than a loan, with repayments tied to earnings. Society as a whole benefits from further education so don’t see the real issue with the current setup.

I'd imagine that the taxes raised by those that do end up paying back their student loan net off the amount of student loan unpaid to be honest.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 8, 2021

Ccfcisparks said:
I'd imagine that the taxes raised by those that do end up paying back their student loan net off the amount of student loan unpaid to be honest.

Not a chance. Total outstanding student debt as of last year was around £150bn & predicted to grow to over £500bn by 2045!

Government themselves only expect around 25% of debt to be repaid.

The whole scheme (and complete HE model) is an unsustainable clusterfuck.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 8, 2021

SG21 said:
Speaking of students, can anyone clear this up:

I heard student loans that don't get paid off (most I hear) end up being paid off by tax payers?
Is this true and is so, just what were they smoking when they allowed that?

Probably the same stuff as those that gave free HE and grants to students at a time when it was largely the preserve of the wealthy and priviliged. Oh, and they could sign on as unemployed too.

HE needed to be opened up to a broader range of people and that wasn't going to be affordable, but at the same time I think the expansion was handled poorly. The drive and financial incentives to get everyone in 6th form to go to uni was ridiculous, even for those who clearly would benefit from a more vocational set-up.

The biggest change needs to be changing the perception of a two-tier education - the upper being academic the second vocational. They should sit side by side as equals - different routes to the same goal. Fulfilling employment that pays well enough to live comfortably.

Skybluefaz · Mar 8, 2021

Just heard Gavin Williamson say that schools will not be closing again

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Mar 8, 2021

SBAndy said:
Yes, that’s essentially right. Think they have a maximum lifespan of 25 years or something, and if there’s a remaining balance beyond that then it’s written off. It’s treated as a tax rather than a loan, with repayments tied to earnings. Society as a whole benefits from further education so don’t see the real issue with the current setup.

I agree and it can act as an adjuster. If there are loads of loans remaining unpiad it shows that the education sector isn't providing the skills and employment it's supposed to help towards. This leads to questions being asked as to the validity of some of the courses on offer and how students can be better provided for.

jimmyhillsfanclub · Mar 8, 2021

Skybluefaz said:
Just heard Gavin Williamson say that schools will not be closing again

Lets hope the clueless twat is finally correct.....its gotta happen sooner or later right?......monkeys with typewriters & all that jazz...

Ccfcisparks · Mar 8, 2021

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
Not a chance. Total outstanding student debt as of last year was around £150bn & predicted to grow to over £500bn by 2045!

Government themselves only expect around 25% of debt to be repaid.

The whole scheme (and complete HE model) is an unsustainable clusterfuck.

Thats really surprising as the threshold is £26,000 to start paying it back, would have thought most degrees would get you a job earning that eventually.

shmmeee · Mar 8, 2021

SBAndy said:
Yes, that’s essentially right. Think they have a maximum lifespan of 25 years or something, and if there’s a remaining balance beyond that then it’s written off. It’s treated as a tax rather than a loan, with repayments tied to earnings. Society as a whole benefits from further education so don’t see the real issue with the current setup.

*a tax on low income students. Rich students don’t take a loan and pay a lower effective tax rate throughout most of their life.

Written off at 60 I believe.

MusicDating · Mar 8, 2021

MusicDating · Mar 8, 2021

All figures still quickly heading in the right direction

Saddlebrains · Mar 8, 2021

Got my jab booked in at my surgery tomorrow afternoon

No idea which one Pfizer or Oxford but fuck it, pleased to be receiving it

David O'Day · Mar 8, 2021

MusicDating said:
All figures still quickly heading in the right direction

14 to 28 days from today is the big test

skybluetony176 · Mar 8, 2021

Skybluefaz said:
Just heard Gavin Williamson say that schools will not be closing again

They never closed in the first place. They stayed open for the children of anybody who didn’t work at a non-essential shop, in the entertainment industry or at a gymnasium.

SG21 · Mar 8, 2021

SBAndy said:
Yes, that’s essentially right. Think they have a maximum lifespan of 25 years or something, and if there’s a remaining balance beyond that then it’s written off. It’s treated as a tax rather than a loan, with repayments tied to earnings. Society as a whole benefits from further education so don’t see the real issue with the current setup.

Ah, that's okay with me then. Thought it was written off after 5 years or something like that.

SG21 · Mar 8, 2021

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
I agree and it can act as an adjuster. If there are loads of loans remaining unpiad it shows that the education sector isn't providing the skills and employment it's supposed to help towards. This leads to questions being asked as to the validity of some of the courses on offer and how students can be better provided for.

A good chunk of the courses are always rubbish and offer nothing of worth. They'll do anything for the money. Met a teacher at a uni a few years ago and even she confirmed how they let anyone in. She even told me a story of how two people were failing her course and needed help or they wouldn't make the second year. They failed first year and they seemed confused as they already been told they were in the second year.

She checked her test results for them and someone above her had changed them to passing. Turned out, they had already paid for the course and refusing them would mean giving the money back.

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (275 Viewers)

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