Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (370 Viewers)

Skybluefaz said:

Just one example, but why despite the data being available did they not move India to the redlist sooner?

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Presumably to allow our own Indian population the opportunity to return rather than be stranded. No different really to allowing people returning from hols in Portugal this time or other countries after wave 1, where they announced restrictions coming into force after a specific date rather than immediately. It was far from ideal, but there would be just as many dissenting voices if people couldn't get home safely. Damned if you, damned if you don't I believe in that instance.

rob9872 said:

Presumably to allow our own Indian population the opportunity to return rather than be stranded. No different really to allowing people returning from hols in Portugal this time or other countries after wave 1, where they announced restrictions coming into force after a specific date rather than immediately. It was far from ideal, but there would be just as many dissenting voices if people couldn't get home safely. Damned if you, damned if you don't I believe in that instance.

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If that's the case why was the same opportunity not offered to Pakistan?

rob9872 said:

Presumably to allow our own Indian population the opportunity to return rather than be stranded. No different really to allowing people returning from hols in Portugal this time or other countries after wave 1, where they announced restrictions coming into force after a specific date rather than immediately. It was far from ideal, but there would be just as many dissenting voices if people couldn't get home safely. Damned if you, damned if you don't I believe in that instance.

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It’s also starting to spread through the Eu as well

What better way to start off a political debate than to take a political position and complain about the alternative political view...

rob9872 said:

Presumably to allow our own Indian population the opportunity to return rather than be stranded. No different really to allowing people returning from hols in Portugal this time or other countries after wave 1, where they announced restrictions coming into force after a specific date rather than immediately. It was far from ideal, but there would be just as many dissenting voices if people couldn't get home safely. Damned if you, damned if you don't I believe in that instance.

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Plus they would never have been stranded, they would have had to quarintine but would have been allowed in the country.

One rule for us another for them.

Deleted member 5849 said:

What better way to start off a political debate than to take a political position and complain about the alternative political view...

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Certainly wasn't my intention until my post was quoted back to me questioning specifics about the governments stance. The difference still being of course that I haven't used it to petty point score the alternative view or criticise their position. If I'm honest I think I'd be praising whoever was in power from whichever side, believing, perhaps naively, in ti,mes of trouble we all rally together and do waht we think is best for the country. It may not be perfect, we may not agree, but I'd support the action for the greater good, however it seems whatever the subject, many can't see past the cross they post on their ballot paper.

rob9872 said:

First time I've looked in for a while. Some of you are so obsessed with bringing the government into every little detail and petty point scoring off each other on this thread. It's been a far from perfect response and some mistakes made, but all unintentional to an unprecedented pandemic and I'm sure that's true of almost every country around the world, acting the way it was thought best at the time, acting on the data available.

Can't we just accept and appreciate the massive effort the whole country has made and in particular the NHS and volunteers in the incredible vaccination programme we have mobilised by people from all areas and a cross spectrum of society? Amazing at such speed to be where we are that we can now lift many of these restrictions from a standing start around 6 months back.

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Afraid I can't agree with that. Some (arguably most) of the errors made were entirely intentional and went against data/professional advice.

We didn't lockdown early on despite prior warning of the situation in Europe completely intentionally cos Johnson in his *cough*wisdom*cough* thought it'd be far better to let everyone else worry about and we'd just stay open for business and it'd give him a massive win. The scientific advisors strongly told him not to. He ignored them. He couldn't even be bothered to attend the emergency COBRA meetings. Intentionally. Then he repeated this with the Delta variant because he didn't want to upset Modi. Again, intentionally not following the data for political reasons rather than making the correct call.

Then there's the PPE. Some of that was historic as they'd not taken heed of the planning report telling them they needed more PPE/ventilators etc but again that was intentionally ignored at the time. Then when the emergency procurement started the 'VIP' lane that resulted in hundreds of millions being wasted on defective or unsuitable equipment being bought and others that didn't materialise at all from companies that had no experience or had only just been set up while proper suppliers got ignored. Again intentional so they could give money to their mates and donors.

Similarly with the tracing app. Could have got one off the shelf but spent billions on one that failed to work for ages and run by the wife of a Tory with a history of failure in telecommunications. Again intentional so they could create more 'jobs for the boys (and girls)'.

Then there's the lack of clarity on the message of restrictions etc. Johnson is inherently a poor communicator who just waffles, but again this was also deliberate so he could gauge reaction and change/deny what was said purely for popularity, and even worse in some instances to enable his government to deflect blame onto the people for not following guidelines etc while those within his own family and inner circle freely flouted those same restrictions without recrimination or blame.

rob9872 said:

Presumably to allow our own Indian population the opportunity to return rather than be stranded. No different really to allowing people returning from hols in Portugal this time or other countries after wave 1, where they announced restrictions coming into force after a specific date rather than immediately. It was far from ideal, but there would be just as many dissenting voices if people couldn't get home safely. Damned if you, damned if you don't I believe in that instance.

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Which would be an acceptable excuse if it weren't that other countries were added to the red list without any such leeway or consideration. It had nothing to do with allowing people to travel and everything to do with politics.

Besides. if anything surely the reason you'd want to put it straight on the red list is to prevent precisely that - people travelling to/from an area that has been identified as a major threat of a new variant without large scale restrictions. Esp one renowned for having a very dense population in its urban areas making the likelihood of spreading that variant very high.

As we saw once you do it it's already too late as you've already given it the chance to come in. Like putting a condom on after sex.

Deleted member 9744 said:

I agree mate that sounds ridiculous. Unfortunately it's as unlogical as most things this Government has done during the pandemic.

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Especially as any negative test result from country of origin has to be in English, French or Spanish.

Sky Blue Pete said:

I think scrapping social distancing and masks is just unnecessary

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At this stage I think if people are still nervous then they can follow those precautions voluntarily.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

At this stage I think if people are still nervous then they can follow those precautions voluntarily.

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Doesn’t work if just those people that are anxious do it. Recent study shows 1 in 80 have long term effects. That’s about 37500 of the 3m likely infections over the summer and what about clinically and clinically extremely vulnerable who maybe can’t have the vaccine. Are they all just expendable. That’s fine if that’s the case

Sky Blue Pete said:

Doesn’t work if just those people that are anxious do it. Recent study shows 1 in 80 have long term effects. That’s about 37500 of the 3m likely infections over the summer and what about clinically and clinically extremely vulnerable who maybe can’t have the vaccine. Are they all just expendable. That’s fine if that’s the case

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You've jumped from me suggesting people voluntarily wear a mask if they want to suggesting that others are then expendable. This is a major problem.

People have different opinions.

Whilst you cannot deem it acceptable for people going round licking shopping trolleys, people also cannot shelter just for those on the other side of the spectrum.

Survey from the economist. Good grief.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

You've jumped from me suggesting people voluntarily wear a mask if they want to suggesting that others are then expendable. This is a major problem.

People have different opinions.

Whilst you cannot deem it acceptable for people going round licking shopping trolleys, people also cannot shelter just for those on the other side of the spectrum.

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IF I WANT TO LICK SHOPPING TROLLEYS THAT IS MY GOD GIVEN RIGHT AND YOU CAN’T TAKE IT AWAY FROM ME.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

You've jumped from me suggesting people voluntarily wear a mask if they want to suggesting that others are then expendable. This is a major problem.

People have different opinions.

Whilst you cannot deem it acceptable for people going round licking shopping trolleys, people also cannot shelter just for those on the other side of the spectrum.

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True. Sorry

I actually wasn’t referring personally other than to ask your opinion on it. Your last sentence is the balance though and opening up completely will have consequences and I think those have been spelt out by whitty mainly

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

Survey from the economist. Good grief.
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Why good grief? I’d say that’s reflective of my groups of work and church colleagues and friends other than on here

Sky Blue Pete said:

Why good grief? I’d say that’s reflective of my groups of work and church colleagues and friends other than on here

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You have friends who want restrictions forever???

Nick said:

You have friends who want restrictions forever???

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A permanent 10 pm curfew?

Nick said:

You have friends who want restrictions forever???

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Masks yep I think I think they’re not a bad idea

Grendel said:

A permanent 10 pm curfew?

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That’s not a high percentage and no no one I know wants that

Sky Blue Pete said:

That’s not a high percentage and no no one I know wants that

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It's pretty much 1 in 5 people according to that survey, hence my good grief comment.

I actually think the socially distanced block at the CBS is a great idea so that everyone feels included by the way. That's the right attitude in my opinion.

Sky Blue Pete said:

Masks yep I think I think they’re not a bad idea

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What about all the other points?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:

Survey from the economist. Good grief.
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Some of the stuff in there is fucking mind bending. Sample size of 1,025 adults and 26% of them want nightclubs and casinos permanently closed? Mandatory quarantine after holidays? 10pm curfews forever?

Who have they asked?!

SBAndy said:

Some of the stuff in there is fucking mind bending. Sample size of 1,025 adults and 26% of them want nightclubs and casinos permanently closed? Mandatory quarantine after holidays? 10pm curfews forever?

Who have they asked?!

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The question on the ipsos mori site is more like 'To what extent would you support or oppose each of the following rules being in place?' So is 19% equal to 1 in 5 people supporting a curfew regardless or is it very little support overall for that action? I'm confused.

@shmmeee probably one for you to explain.

Nick said:

What about all the other points?

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Contact tracing app sounds sensible too in various places but the others nah not without a more dangerous variant for me

SBAndy said:

Some of the stuff in there is fucking mind bending. Sample size of 1,025 adults and 26% of them want nightclubs and casinos permanently closed? Mandatory quarantine after holidays? 10pm curfews forever?

Who have they asked?!

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I have no idea, but this is part of the reason I was getting frustrated previously when people were saying to me that no one thinks like that.

Clearly some people somewhere do, to a certain extent.

Sky Blue Pete said:

Contact tracing app sounds sensible too in various places but the others nah not without a more dangerous variant for me

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So if there was a variant you would lockdown forever?

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Nick said:

So if there was a variant you would lockdown forever?

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Course not we’d deal with as we have before. If there’s good reason for public health purposes then yes. What’s the alternative? Brazil?

Sky Blue Pete said:

Course not we’d deal with as we have before. If there’s good reason for public health purposes then yes. What’s the alternative? Brazil?

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May as well all fucking top ourselves now if people want lockdown and restrictions for the rest of their lives.

No wonder people believe so much shit and get petrified when the wind blows when they want everything closed down forever.

Nick said:

May as well all fucking top ourselves now if people want lockdown and restrictions for the rest of their lives.

No wonder people believe so much shit and get petrified when the wind blows when they want everything closed down forever.

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You’ve jumped off the other end there haven’t you? I do often wonder about how as a society we would have coped had this virus affected both ends of the age spectrum as normal virus’ do

Nick said:

May as well all fucking top ourselves now if people want lockdown and restrictions for the rest of their lives.

No wonder people believe so much shit and get petrified when the wind blows when they want everything closed down forever.

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Surely you’re being as sensationalist as the people you’re complaining about?

Ian1779 said:

Surely you’re being as sensationalist as the people you’re complaining about?

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I'm just going off the responses to that survey. Clearly not a huge sample but worrying that people think that way at all.

Not sensationalist at all.