Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (64 Viewers)

[robbiekeane]

There won't be another lockdown noone will have it. There will be zero compliance.

I'm definitely still goign ahead with my xmas party on thursday night, can't wait.

Got my booster today on far gosford street - right shit show

 

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[duffer]

So we're all at panic stations for something that's 30% less severe than what we're all at least double jabbed against.


this reaction at the minute stinks

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First off, there's some straightforward untruths there. I trust Nick will pick them up with his customary vigilance about Covid myths.

Viruses can mutate to be more deadly as well as less deadly. Don't trust Twitter for science is a pretty good rule imho.

At the moment we're not quite sure which way it will go but even if Omicron only resulted in a quarter of the hospitalisations that Delta caused, the rate of infection/re-infection appears to be far quicker (doubling around every two days, we're told).

Again, a little bit of maths helps here. A small proportion of a very large number is still a pretty big number. When you get into geometric progressions, the numbers get big pretty quickly.

If one person died today of Omicron, and then that doubled every three days, so on Friday two people died, next Monday four people and so on, then by New Year's Day we'd be at 64 deaths a day and 127 dead.

By the end of January though, the death rate per day would be 65,536, and over 130,000 would have died.

I'm not saying for a moment that's what's going to happen, but that's what's causing concern about the new variant.

You could take the line that there's nothing to worry about, and that it's all been overblown to sell papers and make people rich and distract from the idiocy of the government etc.. And you could be right.

And if you are right then I guess people will feel like they've been pressured into vaccinations and inconvenienced by face masks for no good reason. And some corrupt bastards will have made some more money at our expense.

Or you could be wrong, in which case thousands (maybe tens of thousands) of people end up dead or seriously ill and perhaps the NHS completely breaks under the strain.

Personally, I can only see one rational option here, given the risks of doing nothing.

I certainly don't see the proposed changes as an overreaction, but obviously some differ. We're certainly not at 'panic stations' though, unless I've missed the air raid sirens whilst I was on the bog.

 

[duffer]

Shit loads of people going into hospital every day
If more people get infected with something they have no clue they have and then find out on entry to hospital, it's likely that there will be more people in hospital with it

All depends how figures want to be spun and how vague they are. It's common sense.

The key thing is, how many are seriously ill BECAUSE of Omicron and how many die BECAUSE of Omicron.

No. The key thing is how many *will* become ill with Omicron and die of it.

Again, do you think this is a worldwide conspiracy by every government and every media outlet?

We are not the only country proposing additional measures. Why do you think other countries are worried?

 

[Nick]

No. The key thing is how many *will* become ill with Omicron and die of it.

Again, do you think this is a worldwide conspiracy by every government and every media outlet?

We are not the only country proposing additional measures. Why do you think other countries are worried?

Who has said anything about a conspiracy?

The key thing is how many will actually become ill with it and die of it. Must just be a coincidence it is worldwide news that somebody died from it after Boris gave his little vague one liner.

Is this now a thing? What is to stop somebody from giving a bug going round a scary name and then we need restrictions every few months just in case this is the one to kill 65,000 a day?

IF this is just like the flu / a cold then do we start testing for this in everybody who dies in hospital going forward so we can give it a label? Where does it end?

(I hope to got that this is just a sniffle and we all live happily ever after, this won't be the "end" even if it does turn out to be a sniffle).

 

[duffer]

Who has said anything about a conspiracy?

The key thing is how many will actually become ill with it and die of it. Must just be a coincidence it is worldwide news that somebody died from it after Boris gave his little vague one liner.

Is this now a thing? What is to stop somebody from giving a bug going round a scary name and then we need restrictions every few months just in case this is the one to kill 65,000 a day?

IF this is just like the flu / a cold then do we start testing for this in everybody who dies in hospital going forward so we can give it a label? Where does it end?

(I hope to got that this is just a sniffle and we all live happily ever after, this won't be the "end" even if it does turn out to be a sniffle).

Apologies Nick, I'm genuinely confused here. I'm not trying to fall out with you, but I honestly can't see where you're going with this.

Are you actually saying that there's basically nothing to worry about from this new variant?

 

[Nick]

Apologies Nick, I'm genuinely confused here. I'm not trying to fall out with you, but I honestly can't see where you're going with this.

Are you actually saying that there's basically nothing to worry about from this new variant?

All I have said is that so far that people (not the average Joe posting on forums but ministers and media etc) have tried to purposely increase the worry.

That's what the vague one liners and "mistakes" of big numbers are intended to do.

The same as the whole death thing.

 

[duffer]

The strangest thing is, it has got people defending them now and justifying them bullshitting.

It absolutely feckin' hasn't. This is the worst government in living memory, with the most incompetent leader, but I don't let that fact blind me to the science.

 

[Nick]

It absolutely feckin' hasn't. This is the worst government in living memory, with the most incompetent leader, but I don't let that fact blind me to the science.

It really has, I didn't specifically mean you.

 

[PVA]

Nick are you actually Desmond Swayne?

 

[duffer]

All I have said is that so far that people (not the average Joe posting on forums but ministers and media etc) have tried to purposely increase the worry.

That's what the vague one liners and "mistakes" of big numbers are intended to do.

The same as the whole death thing.

I could flip this around, and say that you're looking for reasons to understate the seriousness of the new variant because you personally don't feel at risk (as you've said), and you therefore resent any further restrictions that would impact you?

You don't seem to want to come out and say it, but the impression I'm getting is that you don't think that Omicron represents any real risk at all.

Is that what you believe?

 

[Nick]

Nick are you actually Desmond Swayne?

Well no. I'd actually fact check. Feel free to disprove anything of mine I've stated as that though.

 

[duffer]

And on that I'll stop digging at Nick because I'm starting to feel like a WUM, and actually I quite like him though clearly we differ on this.

I like the fact that there are differing opinions here, but I genuinely worry that people take twitter and Facebook as gospel, especially if they're looking for reasons to avoid vaccination or push back against (what I see as) relatively minor restrictions in behaviour.

Blind trust in Government of any ilk is always a bad idea, imho, but the public health science behind vaccinations is proven over decades and the tinfoil hat brigade spouting rubbish about that need to be called out at every opportunity.

Simply put, the anti-vaxxers are dangerous idiots who cost lives, and not only their own.

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

And on that I'll stop digging at Nick because I'm starting to feel like a WUM, and actually I quite like him though clearly we differ on this.

I like the fact that there are differing opinions here, but I genuinely worry that people take twitter and Facebook as gospel, especially if they're looking for reasons to avoid vaccination or push back against (what I see as) relatively minor restrictions in behaviour.

Blind trust in Government of any ilk is always a bad idea, imho, but the public health science behind vaccinations is proven over decades and the tinfoil hat brigade spouting rubbish about that need to be called out at every opportunity.

Simply put, the anti-vaxxers are dangerous idiots who cost lives, and not only their own.

You are putting everyone in a box again though. Calling people anti-vaxxers is just a shutting down debate tactic really and doesn't help skepticism.

I don't think Nick has said anything false and he is just asking questions that other people are uncomfortable about.

As has been stated earlier, you get the extreme nanobot 5G loons, but the same the other side with guilt trips and demands for restrictions to be put in place. Both are distractions.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Nick are you actually Desmond Swayne?

Just how can they be so stupid?

 

[fernandopartridge]

That scared the red lists have been scrapped.

You really are sounding more and more unhinged, now Omicron is here and well established the red lists are irrelevant hence they've been scrapped

 

[Kieranp96]

I just said I am more likely to need the NHS for Cancer.

Which is it? If I don't get the booster am I selfish for spreading it or selfish because I might need the NHS to save my life from COVID?

After all, if I go into the game on Saturday double jabbed and a negative result who is more likely to spread it out of me and somebody with the Booster who hasn't been tested?

Hey you dont want the vaccine thats your choice who am i to say otherwise? But you're talking nonsense.

 

[Nick]

Hey you dont want the vaccine thats your choice who am i to say otherwise? But you're talking nonsense.

How is what you have quoted nonsense?

 

[duffer]

You are putting everyone in a box again though. Calling people anti-vaxxers is just a shutting down debate tactic really and doesn't help skepticism.

I don't think Nick has said anything false and he is just asking questions that other people are uncomfortable about.

As has been stated earlier, you get the extreme nanobot 5G loons, but the same the other side with guilt trips and demands for restrictions to be put in place. Both are distractions.

Politely disagree. If people are saying that there's no need to get vaccinated, or worse, that vaccinations are dangerous (without representing the actual risks), then by definition they're anti-vaxxers and they are dangerous.

The science does not support them and they represent a genuine risk to themselves and others. Labelling them for what they are doesn't seem contentious, it doesn't stop us debating their points.

I'm not aware of the equivalent on the other side, 'lockdown-lovers'? I don't see quite as many of them. Everything I'd argue for (vaccination, boosters, mask use indoors in crowded areas) is about minimising the need for further lockdowns as I'd see it. It may be an overreaction, but balanced against the risks as we currently understand them it seems a not unreasonable approach to me.

 

[Nick]

For the record, I am not saying that nobody should get vaccinated or that a vaccine is going to kill anybody. It is their choice to get vaccinated and everybody is entitled to it.

I'm by no means an "anti vaxer" or "conspiracy theorist" to point certain things out (sometimes right and sometimes wrong).

My personal view is that I am going to hold off and wait and see about boosters rather than rushing to get one.

At the other end of the "The vaccine is going to mind control us" is the "somebody not wearing a mask is going to kill my gran" type shit.

 

[clint van damme]

Nick are you actually Desmond Swayne?

It that Baldy?

 

[duffer]

I just said I am more likely to need the NHS for Cancer.

Which is it? If I don't get the booster am I selfish for spreading it or selfish because I might need the NHS to save my life from COVID?

After all, if I go into the game on Saturday double jabbed and a negative result who is more likely to spread it out of me and somebody with the Booster who hasn't been tested?

OK, just on this one specifically then.

Getting the booster means you're at less risk of catching Covid, and less risk of spreading it.

Less spread means less people for the NHS to need to treat.

That means the NHS can focus on other things as well as Covid, like cancer.

Are you selfish, not getting a booster if you can? I'd probably say yes, sorry.

It makes no sense to avoid it, it's minimally inconvenient, and if everyone who could did it, then the higher immunity rates would see a reduced load on the NHS.

Why people who are so desperate to avoid additional lockdown measures are also keen to dodge vaccination / boosters is one of life's stranger mysteries.

 

[duffer]

For the record, I am not saying that nobody should get vaccinated or that a vaccine is going to kill anybody. It is their choice to get vaccinated and everybody is entitled to it.

I'm by no means an "anti vaxer" or "conspiracy theorist" to point certain things out (sometimes right and sometimes wrong).

My personal view is that I am going to hold off and wait and see about boosters rather than rushing to get one.

At the other end of the "The vaccine is going to mind control us" is the "somebody not wearing a mask is going to kill my gran" type shit.

What are you waiting to see, exactly?

Do you think the booster represents some kind of risk to you?

 

[Nick]

OK, just on this one specifically then.

Getting the booster means you're at less risk of catching Covid, and less risk of spreading it.

Less spread means less people for the NHS to need to treat.

That means the NHS can focus on other things as well as Covid, like cancer.

Are you selfish, not getting a booster if you can? I'd probably say yes, sorry.

It makes no sense to avoid it, it's minimally inconvenient, and if everyone who could did it, then the higher immunity rates would see a reduced load on the NHS.

Why people who are so desperate to avoid additional lockdown measures are also keen to dodge vaccination / boosters is one of life's stranger mysteries.

So if I don't get the booster and have negative tests once a week for football. Judging by the stats that have come out so far am I more or less likely to spread it than somebody who has had a booster and just uses that for their COVID pass and haven't been tested?

That is "as things are" which answers your other question. I am just not going to rush for it.

 

[PVA]

Why people who are so desperate to avoid additional lockdown measures are also keen to dodge vaccination / boosters is one of life's stranger mysteries.

 

[duffer]

So if I don't get the booster and have negative tests once a week for football. Judging by the stats that have come out so far am I more or less likely to spread it than somebody who has had a booster and just uses that for their COVID pass and haven't been tested?

The correct answer is, you do both. The booster reduces your risk of catching and spreading it. LFTs aren't entirely reliable.

What's the issue with having the booster?

 

[Nick]

The correct answer is, you do both. The booster reduces your risk of catching and spreading it. LFTs aren't entirely reliable.

What's the issue with having the booster?

OK so how many football fans for example who have the booster will also be doing tests to see they are negative before they go?

Of course, if you were to do a PCR every day it would also be more accurate but I am just comparing double jabbed with a negative test compared to people who have a booster who have no idea if they are carrying it.

In fact I will have a negative test result (hopefully) for this weekend even though I don't actually need one yet.

Which would spread more?

 

[duffer]

OK so how many football fans for example who have the booster will also be doing tests to see they are negative before they go?

Of course, if you were to do a PCR every day it would also be more accurate but I am just comparing double jabbed with a negative test compared to people who have a booster who have no idea if they are carrying it.

Which would spread more?

I don't know Nick, but we know that if everyone who could get the booster gets it, then immunity increases for everyone and therefore the risk of transmission and the load on the NHS is lower.

So, fancy answering the question mate, what's the problem with getting the booster?

 

[Nick]

I don't know Nick, but we know that if everyone who could get the booster gets it, then immunity increases for everyone and therefore the risk of transmission and the load on the NHS is lower.

So, fancy answering the question mate, what's the problem with getting the booster?

I don't have a problem, I am just going to wait and see what happens first. I am hardly anti vaxx as I had the first 2. I want to see what I am being boosted "against" first.

I know you are saying immunity and stop the spread but I continue to be double jabbed but take regular tests then am I actually going to be doing more to spread compared to somebody who has had a booster and hasn't done a test for a while?

 

[duffer]

I don't have a problem, I am just going to wait and see what happens first. I am hardly anti vaxx as I had the first 2. I want to see what I am being boosted "against" first.

I know you are saying immunity and stop the spread but I continue to be double jabbed but take regular tests then am I actually going to be doing more to spread compared to somebody who has had a booster and hasn't done a test for a while?

Possibly, Nick, possibly. It's just as a society I think we're going to come out of this quicker if we can get over the vaccination resistance.

I'll leave it there mate, honest! No offence intended, as you know.

 

[Nick]

Possibly, Nick, possibly. It's just as a society I think we're going to come out of this quicker if we can get over the vaccination resistance.

I'll leave it there mate, honest! No offence intended, as you know.

I'm not offended at all, people have different opinions and views. Hopefully I'm not offended.

I'm by no means going to be shouting from the rooftops that it's poison, just not rushing for it just yet.

 

[Saddlebrains]

Here's one for you all.


Im double jabbed, and advocated that for my friends too, get out, get jabbed lets get back to normal.

However on the booster im not doing it (yet). My personal view is that id like to think at 31 with 2 jabs my immune system should be able to do the heavy lifting.

So does this make me pro vax or anti vax? Being as apparently everyones one or the other?

 

[Ian1779]

Here's one for you all.


Im double jabbed, and advocated that for my friends too, get out, get jabbed lets get back to normal.

However on the booster im not doing it (yet). My personal view is that id like to think at 31 with 2 jabs my immune system should be able to do the heavy lifting.

So does this make me pro vax or anti vax? Being as apparently everyones one or the other?

I don’t think it makes you either. An analogy you could use is Brexit. On one side you have the frothing Leavers that wanted British Empire 2.0 and all ‘Remainers’ hated this country, and on the other side the delusional Remainers that thought only racists voted for Leave and that they had a God given right to a re-vote until it went their way. Tons of people in the middle almost get ignored.
Making a personal choice as to when you feel is the right time (or not) to have a booster is not you saying that the new variant is media-hyped bollocks. I’ve had my booster and always intended to do so. It’s not like being a twat and refusing to wear a mask because it ‘impinges’ your civil liberties.

 

[duffer]

Here's one for you all.


Im double jabbed, and advocated that for my friends too, get out, get jabbed lets get back to normal.

However on the booster im not doing it (yet). My personal view is that id like to think at 31 with 2 jabs my immune system should be able to do the heavy lifting.

So does this make me pro vax or anti vax? Being as apparently everyones one or the other?

Ah, a little from column a, and a little from column b.

Without being rude, I can't see any real reason to not have the booster.

The science seems to suggest that even in the double vaxxed, the new variant can get through. To maximise your chances of avoiding catching it, or perhaps more importantly, transmitting it, the booster improves your odds.

That's why I don't really understand the reluctance. You're obviously a decent chap, and I know I've been banging on, but that does seem to be the science here.

 

[SBT]

Funny that the same people who were moaning that the original vaccine rollout wasn't going quickly enough when everything was locked down are now saying they want to "wait and see" before they get full protection from the same vaccines.

 

[baldy]

Everything from China has gone silent. That in itself is just creepy. I genuinely have no idea what the situation is there.