Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (35 Viewers)

jordan210 · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
Do you pipe up in the same way when people talk about taking aspirin, or going in for major surgery? You’re arguing semantics - the vaccine is extremely safe. Spreading your anxieties about its safety isn’t helping anyone.

Its not my anxieties I have posted the yellow card information for reported side effects. that is the facts. You said completely safe what is untrue.

You're now trying to compare major surgery or a drug that has been around for over 120 years. so no I dint pipe up about aspirin as I wasn't around in the 1800's.

People are allowed to question if any drug is full safe.

You dont know my vaccine status or what side effects I might have had. So maybe you should ask yourself are people allowed different views from you.

Nick · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
Spreading your anxieties about its safety isn’t helping anyone.

There's irony in that too.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jan 7, 2022

Sick Boy said:
They’re about 0.50cent over here

But only if you buy them In Da Club or Candy Shop

Nick · Jan 7, 2022

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But only if you buy them In Da Club or Candy Shop

SBT · Jan 7, 2022

Nick said:
It obviously doesn't give a high chance of immunity though, does it? If anything even on here there are people get their booster and then end up with COVID the next week (a fair few of my mates too).

Yep it might take the risk of being hospitalised from it down and death but if those chances are already very small anyway.

So if I get the booster today, it turns out Omicron is just mild and dies out a bit. Shall I then run to get the 4th as well in February? Then the 5th? Then the 6th?

This my point, people are happy to shout about some people being unvaccinated or boosted (I say some because obviously it makes more of an impact for some than others) and how selfish they are. Yet if you then turn it to somebody who is massively obese who is much more likely to be at risk, people don't want to know.

I'm not saying on here as I have no idea who's who but there is some irony in really obese people shouting about others (who potentially don't need it themselves) being selfish for not getting the vaccine.

Omicron has certainly hurt the immunity part of the equation, yes, but the vaccines (and especially the booster) have done an incredible job of preventing bad symptoms, which is huge.

Should you run to get the 3rd, 4th, 5th booster shot? Well you tell me! If it’s safe to do so and it offers you a benefit (both medical and otherwise), is there a compelling reason not to? That’s what I’m getting at - your list of pros and cons doesn’t fully make sense to me, because “I only get a small benefit and other people might need it more” belongs in the pro column rather than the cons!

I’m curious to hear what outweighs the upside for you - for other people it seems to be worries about the safety of the vaccine, is that the case for you?

SBT · Jan 7, 2022

jordan210 said:
People are allowed to question if any drug is full safe.

You dont know my vaccine status or what side effects I might have had. So maybe you should ask yourself are people allowed different views from you.

They most certainly are. There is a long and deadly history of people campaigning against new vaccines, since the days of Edward Jenner. I’m grateful for the work of regulators in deciding which drugs are safe for mass consumption, regardless of InternetUser210’s dictionary definition of “completely safe”.

Nick · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
Omicron has certainly hurt the immunity part of the equation, yes, but the vaccines (and especially the booster) have done an incredible job of preventing bad symptoms, which is huge.

Should you run to get the 3rd, 4th, 5th booster shot? Well you tell me! If it’s safe to do so and it offers you a benefit (both medical and otherwise), is there a compelling reason not to? That’s what I’m getting at - your list of pros and cons doesn’t fully make sense to me, because “I only get a small benefit and other people might need it more” belongs in the pro column rather than the cons!

I’m curious to hear what outweighs the upside for you - for other people it seems to be worries about the safety of the vaccine, is that the case for you?

I haven't ruled it out, I have said I will wait and see. If Omicron kills everything out I won't need one then will I? People rushed out to get it before Christmas and spent their Christmas Day isolating.

Omicron was known to not have bad symptoms before the mass booster rollout.

So it's gone from (not you personally) that you will be immune and will stop you from transmitting it if you're vaccinated. It's now "Yeah but it will stop you from getting bad symptoms". Right now, the main variant doesn't have really bad symptoms anyway.

jordan210 · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
They most certainly are. There is a long and deadly history of people campaigning against new vaccines, since the days of Edward Jenner. I’m grateful for the work of regulators in deciding which drugs are safe for mass consumption, regardless of InternetUser210’s dictionary definition of “completely safe”.

There's also been many drugs that have been released and approved that have then been removed and had giant lawsuits. Due to safety concerns.

including Pfizer, Takeda Pharmaceutical , Johnson & Johnson and many others

Like I said you definition of completely safe appeared to miss out any risk.

SBT · Jan 7, 2022

Nick said:
I haven't ruled it out, I have said I will wait and see. If Omicron kills everything out I won't need one then will I? People rushed out to get it before Christmas and spent their Christmas Day isolating.

Omicron was known to not have bad symptoms before the mass booster rollout.

So it's gone from (not you personally) that you will be immune and will stop you from transmitting it if you're vaccinated. It's now "Yeah but it will stop you from getting bad symptoms". Right now, the main variant doesn't have really bad symptoms anyway.

I mean, as far as you’re concerned, there’s a decent chance you’ll be right and you’ll be fine either way. But why leave it to chance if you have an easy and effective way to improve your odds? Basic probability if nothing else would suggest it’s a good idea. It costs you nothing and there is only upside - unless you believe differently?

The evolving science has never bothered me - when it comes to my health I’d always rather hear the latest expert advice rather than have someone stick to the first thing I was told no matter what. Maybe that’s just me.

SBT · Jan 7, 2022

jordan210 said:
There's also been many drugs that have been released and approved that have then been removed and had giant lawsuits. Due to safety concerns.

including Pfizer, Takeda Pharmaceutical , Johnson & Johnson and many others

Like I said you definition of completely safe appeared to miss out any risk.

You think the Covid vaccine is one of those then? Fun!

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
I mean, as far as you’re concerned, there’s a decent chance you’ll be right and you’ll be fine either way. But why leave it to chance if you have an easy and effective way to improve your odds? Basic probability if nothing else would suggest it’s a good idea. It costs you nothing and there is only upside - unless you believe differently?

The evolving science has never bothered me - when it comes to my health I’d always rather hear the latest expert advice rather than have someone stick to the first thing I was told no matter what. Maybe that’s just me.

There's the added bonus that it does indeed suppress transmission, as it increases your chances of not catching Covid, thus protecting more vulnerable people and meaning more resources are available to treat cancer etc. More resources available for mental health too, and less chance of drastic measures needing to be implemented to restrict spread.

Although personally I still believe in using calves' blood for transfusions...

Nick · Jan 7, 2022

Deleted member 5849 said:
There's the added bonus that it does indeed suppress transmission, as it increases your chances of not catching Covid

Is that working now though?

chiefdave · Jan 7, 2022

jordan210 said:
Its not my anxieties I have posted the yellow card information for reported side effects. that is the facts.

Worth pointing out that yellow card is self reporting so wise to not take all reported side effects as fact. There's people who have reported on the yellow card system that they have become pregnant as a result of having the vaccine

jordan210 · Jan 7, 2022

chiefdave said:
Worth pointing out that yellow card is self reporting so wise to not take all reported side effects as fact. There's people who have reported on the yellow card system that they have become pregnant as a result of having the vaccine

It's also used by doctors who are suppose to use it.

Deleted member 5849 · Jan 7, 2022

chiefdave said:
Worth pointing out that yellow card is self reporting so wise to not take all reported side effects as fact. There's people who have reported on the yellow card system that they have become pregnant as a result of having the vaccine

It's fair to say any medicine will have side effects for some. If they are serious, my sympathies are undoubtedly with those people, and I would fully understand why they would be reluctant on a personal evel to have more. I also have great sympathy for anybody who may struggle to overcome fears, such as a fear of needles, that means getting to have the vaccine is a struggle. However, I'll quote SBT's post in entirety as it allows me to also apologise for derailing their argument

SBT said:
Well as I said, it’s responsible to take the vaccine for the sake of other people, but we can put that to one side, I’m talking solely about its impact on you.

The vaccine’s benefit to you may be small, but it’s a benefit nonetheless. It’s free, easily available, and completely safe, by any statistical measure. Never mind whether the benefits are huge or life-changing - what’s the downside of getting that benefit anyway?

But, they didn't say completely safe, they said completely safe by any statistical measure. It's fair to say that risks from vaccine are vastly lower than risks from Covid. That is not up for debate. We should consider ourselves very lucky that we happen to be in a wealthy enough country that can afford to give us that protection. Not taking it won't, however, mean that that particular dose will somehow find itself to Central Africa. So, the wise thing to do is to take the vaccine, campaign for world coverage.

jordan210 · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
You think the Covid vaccine is one of those then? Fun!

Dint say that did I. We dont have the data to say it is or isn't until the FDA release the documents they have been told to release.

But then again what do I know, It's not like a family member used to be a Scientist at a large British drug maker in the new drug development

SBT · Jan 7, 2022

jordan210 said:
It's also used by doctors who are suppose to use it.

Have you had the vaccine in the UK? Everyone who gets it is encouraged to report any side effects to the Yellow Card database. Forgive me for not being stunned that there have been several thousand side effects reported for a vaccine that’s been given to almost every man, woman and child in the country - I myself had a sore arm a couple of times. Call the witch doctor.

SBT · Jan 7, 2022

jordan210 said:
Dint say that did I. We dont have the data to say it is or isn't until the FDA release the documents they have been told to release.

But then again what do I know, It's not like a family member used to be a Scientist at a large British drug maker in the new drug development

More evidence that scientific knowledge isn’t hereditary then.

skybluetony176 · Jan 7, 2022

Worth noting that drugs and vaccines are not the same thing.

jordan210 · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
More evidence that scientific knowledge isn’t hereditary then.

Yet I have a science based education.

I see when all things fail you just try and insult.

skybluetony176 · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
Have you had the vaccine in the UK? Everyone who gets it is encouraged to report any side effects to the Yellow Card database. Forgive me for not being stunned that there have been several thousand side effects reported for a vaccine that’s been given to almost every man, woman and child in the country - I myself had a sore arm a couple of times. Call the witch doctor.

I had popping popcorn sounds in my ears for about 4 weeks after my second Astra Zenica vaccine. Was a really rare side effect apparently so I’m not surprised that there’s thousands.

SBT · Jan 7, 2022

jordan210 said:
Yet I have a science based education.

I see when all things fail you just try and insult.

Harvard or Cambridge?

bezzer · Jan 7, 2022

SBT said:
Harvard or Cambridge?

Physics at Caludon Castle.

fernandopartridge · Jan 7, 2022

This is a positive thread

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 7, 2022

Grendel said:
And dodging questions

Dodging questions? You are the one that has posted three untruths on here in a matter of weeks.

I have made my point regarding the virus and the vaccine. At this stage if anyone cannot digest that and accept it then there really is no value in repeating myself.

Grendel · Jan 7, 2022

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Dodging questions? You are the one that has posted three untruths on here in a matter of weeks.

I have made my point regarding the virus and the vaccine. At this stage if anyone cannot digest that and accept it then there really is no value in repeating myself.

What are the 3 untruths?

the questions were

what is your background in science

have you been fully jabbed

Can you answer?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jan 7, 2022

Grendel said:
What are the 3 untruths?

the questions were

what is your background in science

have you been fully jabbed

Can you answer?

Ah so you can't win the argument so you ask personal questions? You really are an embarrassment.

In term of the three untruths, maybe there is more. Start with the 90% of hospital/ICU patients being unjabbed. We can do clues on the other ones if you want to play the clown.

shmmeee · Jan 7, 2022

Nick said:
COVID has been going on for 2 years now. Hospitalisations could have been cut even before the vaccine came out.

So it goes back to the point about "is it really needed to throw 4 jabs into somebody otherwise perfectly young and healthy?".

Tracy, 57, 40 stone who smokes and drinks all day. Of course she will need it.

My issue has been "Do I really need 4 jabs and then one more every couple of months?" rather than "Does anybody need 4 jabs?"

You’re implying the jabs do something other than make you even healthier. If my immune system can repel viruses yours can’t and otherwise we’re identical health in healthier than you.

Forget your hand waving about obesity, it’s clear you’ve got some weird views about medicine.

chiefdave · Jan 7, 2022

Esoterica said:
We don't seem to be learning anything from this pandemic in terms of boosting natural health and immunity, it's all about the drugs. Loved the video that Nick posted promoting what you can do to help yourself but it barely got a reaction here and whenever obesity is mentioned it often gets glossed over, I suspect because it's a topic that people don't want to look in the mirror and face.

We absolutely should be promoting a healthy lifestyle and helping people achieve that. If you look at pretty much any report on long term health poverty is a huge factor.

Of course there is also an element of picking and choosing the advise. The video posted included advise to eliminate alcohol, which is known to have a negative impact on the immune system. If you're going to push for a healthier society then things like alcohol consumption will need to be part of the conversation.

Esoterica said:
Exercise for losing weight is a complete myth anyway. It works in the very short term and exercising does have many health benefits, but losing weight is not one of them. It is all about what you eat (and when you eat). If you're doing that right and still not losing weight then your body is missing something e.g, Iodine deficiency is a massive factor in the ability to lose weight and WHO estimates around 2 billion people are.

As the last specialist I saw put it, if you're telling all patients 'eat less, move more' and for well over 95% of them that doesn't work maybe we need to consider the advice is wrong, 'if you trialled a cancer treatment and it did nothing for over 95% of patients it wouldn't get past the first stage'. Unfortunately for an issue that impacts so many people there is actually relatively little work done on finding better treatments.

Marty said:
Obesity is a ticking time bomb though and will wreak havoc soon, it will absolutely decimate the NHS. Its something we've known for years that obesity not only effects quality of life short term, but has a detrimental effect long term with things like diabetes and cancers.

Completely agree. The support and treatment if you're actually seriously trying to lose weight is appallingly bad, its basically non-existent.

Nick · Jan 7, 2022

Are Vaccine Passports a temporary measure that will be scrapped once it's over?

Deleted member 9744 · Jan 7, 2022

Nick said:
Are Vaccine Passports a temporary measure that will be scrapped once it's over?

Not going to be necessary once all the unvaccinated have been rounded up and bundled into vans.

chiefdave · Jan 7, 2022

Nick said:
Are Vaccine Passports a temporary measure that will be scrapped once it's over?

On the basis that every other pandemic in history hasn't lasted for ever at some point they will no longer be of any use.

Nick · Jan 7, 2022

Deleted member 9744 said:
Not going to be necessary once all the unvaccinated have been rounded up and bundled into vans.

Let's hope so.

Saddlebrains · Jan 7, 2022

Omicron may be nearly 100 TIMES less deadly than Delta, scientists say

MailOnline analysis shows Covid killed one in 33 people in the UK who tested positive at the peak of the devastating second wave last January, compared to just one in 670 now.

www.dailymail.co.uk

More positive news

clint van damme · Jan 7, 2022

Saddlebrains said:
Omicron may be nearly 100 TIMES less deadly than Delta, scientists say

MailOnline analysis shows Covid killed one in 33 people in the UK who tested positive at the peak of the devastating second wave last January, compared to just one in 670 now.

www.dailymail.co.uk

More positive news

The content of the article massively contradicts the headline, though it still remains good news when you look at the comparisons with last year.

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (35 Viewers)

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