Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (4 Viewers)

[Liquid Gold]

Got to be honest, this guy seems like a bit of a crank with a habit of self publicising through edgy views: Karol Sikora - Wikipedia

Yeah, I'm probably showing a bit of confirmation bias as from my own meagre research I'm expecting asymptomatic cases to be a major factor in the final tally if we ever manage to get decent antibody tests. The guy may be a crank but I'd love to see the proof of that Boston homeless shelter stuff.

Posting this for more info and so I can read myself tomorrow as it's too late now - Asymptomatic coronavirus cases at Boston homeless shelter raise red flag - CNN

 

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[Astute]

I don’t get what’s happening really. Did we lock down too early and fear it’s length too much? Or as I suspect have we flattened the peak to ensure our health services cope

I think we locked down at about the right time. But try telling that to people who have lost loved ones.

We certainly haven't been strict enough with lockdown though. This is well worth a look. At least they have kept their SOH.

 

[Sick Boy]

Really hoping this turns out to be 'fake news' but it does seem to stand up to scrutiny. 128 twitter profiles of NHS staff found to be fake and traced back to the Department of Health and Social Care.

Disgusting but not surprising either

 

[djr8369]

Really hoping this turns out to be 'fake news' but it does seem to stand up to scrutiny. 128 twitter profiles of NHS staff found to be fake and traced back to the Department of Health and Social Care.

This is horrifying and should bring down the government in any sane country. This is akin to the Chinese governments propaganda.

 

[Ian1779]

This is horrifying and should bring down the government in any sane country. This is akin to the Chinese governments propaganda.

This sort of thing has been going on in one guise or another since 2016.

 

[shmmeee]

Will be interesting to see how that plays out. I see the government have used a bot to deny it which isn’t the brightest move The guy says he’s pulling together evidence and we’ll see more today.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Will be interesting to see how that plays out. I see the government have used a bot to deny it which isn’t the brightest move The guy says he’s pulling together evidence and we’ll see more today.

I really hope for the sake of all sanity it's false.

If true, then I'll join you in the lynching. At a distance, of course

 

[shmmeee]

I really hope for the sake of all sanity it's false.

If true, then I'll join you in the lynching. At a distance, of course

Oh I’m still in truck of salt mode. I can’t see how he can know it’s from the gov but await his proof with interest. Also always a bit suspect of people who make big claims then say proof is coming later. Get your ducks in a row first.

I notice the accounts are being deleted which is interesting.

 

[clint van damme]

I really hope for the sake of all sanity it's false.

If true, then I'll join you in the lynching. At a distance, of course

given the false fact checker they've set up I know what my money is on.
I'd really like to see something put in place to stop this type of shit or a least heavily penalise it so it makes organisations think twice about employing these tactics.

 

[Liquid Gold]

given the false fact checker they've set up I know what my money is on.
I'd really like to see something put in place to stop this type of shit or a least heavily penalise it so it makes organisations think twice about employing these tactics.

When did it all become about tricking people into being on your side instead of presenting your best argument. I blame Campbell.

 

[clint van damme]

When did it all become about tricking people into being on your side instead of presenting your best argument. I blame Campbell.

I've always thought Mandleson was behind it but it could have been Campbell or a combination of the 2.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Its just propaganda 101 isn't it?...as old as the hills......its just the medium thats changed...

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It may have been Mandleson's brainchild, but Campbell was the architect of how to work it.

 

[shmmeee]

I do think there’s been a definite change in recent years to feeding people enough to stay in their bubble. When we all shared the same media we had some kind of shared truth that while still manipulated was at least shared. These days everyone’s got their own truth.

Campbell and co did what I’d call classic PR or spin rather than outright propaganda.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

I do think there’s been a definite change in recent years to feeding people enough to stay in their bubble. When we all shared the same media we had some kind of shared truth that while still manipulated was at least shared. These days everyone’s got their own truth.

Campbell and co did what I’d call classic PR or spin rather than outright propaganda.

Yep.. the likes of Goebbels would have filled his jack-boots with facebook & twitter accounts....

...and, with due respect, I'd suggest the Iraq WMD saga was a little bit more than classic PR & spin mate.

 

[Grendel]

This is horrifying and should bring down the government in any sane country. This is akin to the Chinese governments propaganda.

It would if it was true....

 

[Liquid Gold]

I don’t think anything brings down governments much anymore. Can you imagine a chancellor quoting in the past saying his office wasn’t independent then the government continuing.

 

[Grendel]

I don’t think anything brings down governments much anymore. Can you imagine a chancellor quoting in the past saying his office wasn’t independent then the government continuing.

The other problem is people can make very serious claims with no evidence and no consequences of false information.

 

[skybluesam66]

i do notice that despite Covid - the death rate from flu and pneumonia is still around 3x the death rate for Covid (See below - albeit a little out of date)

I guess that is why many who think they have the virus, have something more normal - but probably just as dangerous

 

[fernandopartridge]

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

ONS statistics out, grim reading and as it covered Easter weekend only provisional (registry offices not necessarily open).

 

[shmmeee]

Yep.. the likes of Goebbels would have filled his jack-boots with facebook & twitter accounts....

...and, with due respect, I'd suggest the Iraq WMD saga was a little bit more than classic PR & spin mate.

Ah I thought you were talking generally about New Labours use of spin. I’ll be honest I’m not into the ins and outs of Iraq (I was too busy getting pissed at Uni at the time), I see a lot of claims and counter claims, but will bow to your greater knowledge.

 

[skybluetony176]

Deaths registered weekly in England and Wales, provisional - Office for National Statistics

ONS statistics out, grim reading and as it covered Easter weekend only provisional (registry offices not necessarily open).

Deaths overall in the U.K., not just Coronavirus recorded also makes grim reading and maybe a good indicator of the true amount of deaths due to Coronavirus. Number of people dying hits 20-year high

 

[skybluetony176]

Ah I thought you were talking generally about New Labours use of spin. I’ll be honest I’m not into the ins and outs of Iraq (I was too busy getting pissed at Uni at the time), I see a lot of claims and counter claims, but will bow to your greater knowledge.

Tony Blair presented a dressed up dossier on the immediate danger Saddam apparently presented to the world and it turned out to be a hypothetical piece of homework that some student did in Brazil IIRC. It was basically pure fiction. As we then found out when there was no WMD’s.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Deaths overall in the U.K., not just Coronavirus recorded also makes grim reading and maybe a good indicator of the true amount of deaths due to Coronavirus. Number of people dying hits 20-year high

Average that out over the year and it's 400k excess deaths.

 

[skybluetony176]

Average that out over the year and it's 400k excess deaths.

Difficult times. Hopefully it won’t come to that with lockdowns, social distancing etc keeping the averages down. You have to remember that what looks like could have been the peak is possibly been in that 4 week period, certainly we were on the upward trajectory during that period. Does show the importance of long term behaviour though.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I do think there’s been a definite change in recent years to feeding people enough to stay in their bubble. When we all shared the same media we had some kind of shared truth that while still manipulated was at least shared. These days everyone’s got their own truth.

Campbell and co did what I’d call classic PR or spin rather than outright propaganda.

I agree, but I think social media and bots/algorithms have made that a lot easier because it keeps people in the bubble regarding recommendations etc. What we really need is an algorithm that links to the opposite view, not the same.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Tony Blair presented a dressed up dossier on the immediate danger Saddam apparently presented to the world and it turned out to be a hypothetical piece of homework that some student did in Brazil IIRC. It was basically pure fiction. As we then found out when there was no WMD’s.

It was like taking something one of us wrote on here and using it as expert opinion and basing policy on it. It was and forever shall be a massive scandal that should have seen people in prison.

 

[shmmeee]

Seems I’m not the only one with a hefty scepticism of that fake NHS account dude, this thread gives good reasons to err on the side of caution until something concrete is proven:

 

[Grendel]

It took 5 minutes to establish the NHS story was fabricated by a crank whose also it seems has been made aware that Yougov are a corrupt organisation sponsored by Cummings and that Rachel Riley is an evil anti Semite who would have had no issue if Jeremy Corbyn was murdered. He has a pathological hatred for Ms Riley stemming from her returning baby wear supplied from a company that had a pop up from a left wing organisation that i assume indulges this chap in his twaddle

 

[skybluesam66]

while there is no excuse for Government lies, this is not restricted to 1 party - remember the weapons of mass destruction ?

Think about people who you know who go into politics either locally or nationally - few of them would survive in large Corporations

 

[clint van damme]

Seems I’m not the only one with a hefty scepticism of that fake NHS account dude, this thread gives good reasons to err on the side of caution until something concrete is proven:

the problem is the government is being caught lying on a daily basis, herd immunity, PPE, testing etc. When that happens it's very easy to perpetrate stuff like this or even worse the crackpot 5G theory. It would be great if every fucker just stuck to the facts, wishful thinking I know.

 

[shmmeee]

while there is no excuse for Government lies, this is not restricted to 1 party - remember the weapons of mass destruction ?

Think about people who you know who go into politics either locally or nationally - few of them would survive in large Corporations

While there’s some truth to this, I mean it’s the weirdos that have the time and inclination to attends hundreds of meetings to get selected mostly, I don’t get this fetishisation of the business world. I see lots and lots and lots of fucking useless people in business in high up positions taking in large salaries that have no discernible talents.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

While there’s some truth to this, I mean it’s the weirdos that have the time and inclination to attends hundreds of meetings to get selected mostly, I don’t get this fetishisation of the business world. I see lots and lots and lots of fucking useless people in business in high up positions taking in large salaries that have no discernible talents.

There is a talent in persuading people you should get a big salary

 

[shmmeee]

There is a talent in persuading people you should get a big salary

If you’re that good at it you will

 

[Nick]

While there’s some truth to this, I mean it’s the weirdos that have the time and inclination to attends hundreds of meetings to get selected mostly, I don’t get this fetishisation of the business world. I see lots and lots and lots of fucking useless people in business in high up positions taking in large salaries that have no discernible talents.

Arse licking, networking, shite talking nonses. Often don't have a clue about the jobs people below them do.