Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (121 Viewers)

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
That depends on if other countries reporting and stats are done the same as ours though?

For example Africa seem to be immune from it. Is their social distancing working?

Africa has much less international travel so less likely to import it from numerous sources (easier track and trace) and often people living in less dense areas as they have more agricultural based economies etc. There may well be other factors (I don't know if something like the climate will help) but when you look at here and the US they are saying that people from BAME backgrounds are being disproportionately affected, so it really doesn't look like it's a DNA thing.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Africa has much less international travel so less likely to import it from numerous sources (easier track and trace) and often people living in less dense areas as they have more agricultural based economies etc. There may well be other factors (I don't know if something like the climate will help) but when you look at here and the US they are saying that people from BAME backgrounds are being disproportionately affected, so it really doesn't look like it's a DNA thing.

It's more likely they haven't really been tested and people die all the time there so it doesn't get a mention.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Surely if they were a halfway house they are ideal for people quarantining after coming into the country?

I agree with that respect - the lack of testing/isolating travellers is a massive fuck up. But that's not to say the measures put in place haven't been worthwhile. They'd have been much better if we'd had these measures as well but just becuase we made the error with travel doesn't mean we may as well have said 'fuck it, let's just go the whole hog and get the social distancing wrong as well".

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
It's more likely they haven't really been tested and people die all the time there so it doesn't get a mention.

That may well be one of the factors involved along with what I've mentioned (I think someone asked one of the African presidents why they'd had no cases and he said "it's very simple - we have no tests".

But even so if the manner of people dying is different from normal it would get flagged up as being a problem or likely to be an outbreak of this. There could also be dictators keeping things quiet in certain areas and like you say if stuff happens in Africa it largely gets ignored over here.

That's not to say that they may well have a problem with it in the coming months.

Skybluefaz · Apr 27, 2020

I see Raab says we're 'winning' still. It's up there with our great 2-6 'win' against Yeovil at home in league two, and me 'winning' the lottery every time I put it on

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 27, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
With Johnson back to 'work', it's becoming pretty clear there is a big push to get the economic pawns back to work asap regardless of the risk of death or serious illness. The Torygraph pushing misleading polls stating people want lockdown to end unconditionally, lots of air time given to cranks like Toby Young. Now the mass morgues are in place Plan A can be pursued once again.

I'm not sure if it is just being ignored that we're adding on 4k plus cases per day (and that's just diagnosed ones). I genuinely think we'll go to 100k+ excess deaths from this.

Yep. When you build a nation to be obsessed with money and wealth the calls for making money will begin way before it's sensible from a health perspective. I'm certain future generations will look back on us as idiots.

Even if the polls are misleading, that's all they are - polls. Just because the public supposedly want something doesn't make it the correct thing to do.

To be fair to Johnson he has at least said he's very wary of lifting lockdown too early, which seems to be a dissenting voice and probably won't go down well with the puppetmasters.

We're nowhere near ready to begin looking at reducing lockdown yet as although the figures do look like they're trending down slightly they're still very high and if we do I can see us suffering terribly from it.

Like others have said it does seem like some people aren't being quite as stringent in their movements/care as they were before. If we reduce lockdown without any testing/cure it could see so many people emerge all at once because they've been cooped up for over a month it could lead to a massive spread. I really fear what may happen over the next month or so and I feel a six-figure death sum is extremely likely.

tisza · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
So people who die in a care home can't be put down as COVID as a reason?

Are Germany using exactly the same reporting and stats as us in terms of what is a COVID death? (Genuine question and not sarcasm! )

Apparently not. My neighbour spent 12 years working in Munich hospitals and is touch with former colleagues. Generally the underlying condition is recorded as the cause of death there. (virus apparently seen as speeding up the process, not the cause).
Also Germany not generally testing after death except in unusual circumstances - again it's data that will become available later when, for example, house deaths are compared with previous years data
She says similar happening here in Hungary where possible.
Only going to really find out when it's possible to compare 2020 mortality rate with previous years - but even then will be difficult.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

tisza said:
Apparently not. My neighbour spent 12 years working in Munich hospitals and is touch with former colleagues. Generally the underlying condition is recorded as the cause of death there. (virus apparently seen as speeding up the process, not the cause).
Also Germany not generally testing after death except in unusual circumstances - again it's data that will become available later when, for example, house deaths are compared with previous years data
She says similar happening here in Hungary where possible.
Only going to really find out when it's possible to compare 2020 mortality rate with previous years - but even then will be difficult.

Which is why is Germany are underplaying it and we are overplaying it then the numbers will be different.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Apr 27, 2020

Skybluefaz said:
I see Raab says we're 'winning' still. It's up there with our great 2-6 'win' against Yeovil at home in league two, and me 'winning' the lottery every time I put it on

Although it's being said partly for morale and partly as a govt PR exercise I think they need to be careful about use of terms like that. People are already starting to be more lackadaisical in what they're doing and saying stuff like that is just going to lead to more complacency.

Plus as you say it's winning in a very warped sense. Like cutting your foot and getting gangrene and not getting it looked at, but then saying you did well because you only lost your foot rather than your whole leg. Better decision making could've stopped you losing your foot as well.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 27, 2020

tisza said:
Only going to really find out when it's possible to compare 2020 mortality rate with previous years - but even then will be difficult.

tbh that'll be good enough (with a margin built in, of course) as even non Covid deaths caused by this crisis are still fair for inclusion in the impact of this, in my eyes

fernandopartridge · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Again, it's just a calculation and an estimate.

Aren't people in carehomes being certified as dying of COVID at all? Is it assuming every care home death is COVID and saying they haven't been counted?

So much of it is about politics, you have Piers Morgan on one hand saying the world is doomed and everybody is going to die and pushing his shite and people like Dom on the other hand trying to give Boris Johnson a reacharound.

Read the thread he posted ffs

clint van damme · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Which is why is Germany are underplaying it and we are overplaying it then the numbers will be different.

We aren't overplaying the numbers.
We aren't including care home deaths in the official daily figures and we are recording some deaths from corona as down to the underlying health issue if the deceased had one.
For example there was a woman on the radio who's husband died in hospital in ICU on a ventilator but his death was recorded as heart failure because he had a heart condition.

I am amazed at Germanys fatality rate given they've had more cases than us and suspect their actual figure may be higher.

tisza · Apr 27, 2020

Deleted member 5849 said:
tbh that'll be good enough (with a margin built in, of course) as even non Covid deaths caused by this crisis are still fair for inclusion in the impact of this, in my eyes

cynic in me thinks some will revisit it as increase above usual numbers of deaths per annum. eg" well those with serious underlying conditions were going to die some time in 2020 anyway". With some countries recording that way already some will try to justify things by "dumbing down the numbers" - name Cummings springs to mind for some reason

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

clint van damme said:
We aren't overplaying the numbers.
We aren't including care home deaths in the official daily figures and we are recording some deaths from corona as down to the underlying health issue if the deceased had one.
For example there was a woman on the radio who's husband died in hospital in ICU on a ventilator but his death was recorded as heart failure because he had a heart condition.

I am amazed at Germanys fatality rate given they've had more cases than us and suspect their actual figure may be higher.

Thats where you do it like for like.

Are Germany including care homes or just people who die in hospital?

clint van damme · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Thats where you do it like for like.

Are Germany including care homes or just people who die in hospital?

That's why the figures are difficult to compare country to country but I don't think we're overplayiing them.

David O'Day · Apr 27, 2020

fernandopartridge said:
Read the thread he posted ffs

The headline figure is just so modelling though so nick does have a point

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David O'Day · Apr 27, 2020

clint van damme said:
We aren't overplaying the numbers.
We aren't including care home deaths in the official daily figures and we are recording some deaths from corona as down to the underlying health issue if the deceased had one.
For example there was a woman on the radio who's husband died in hospital in ICU on a ventilator but his death was recorded as heart failure because he had a heart condition.

I am amazed at Germanys fatality rate given they've had more cases than us and suspect their actual figure may be higher.

We are also recording deaths that may not be covid-19 as covid-19 deaths so it is hard to tell.

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shmmeee · Apr 27, 2020

All anyone can do right now is guess and see if they were right when the dust settles. The best figures are overall excess deaths as that normalises out testing and cause of death differences and reporting differences.

But if you look at those graphs we’re clearly not over the peak (when that data stops with IIRC is about two weeks ago) whereas France Italy and Spain are, so even then it’s not like for like.

I’d place a rather large wager than when all is said and done well have one of the highest deaths per capita in the western world (barring the US), but we don’t know yet and anyone saying they do either way is just guessing too.

There’s second waves of the virus to potentially come, and maybe third and fourth waves too, there’s excess deaths from under treated chronic conditions and mental health issues which some doctors I’ve seen are predicting to be a bigger number than Covid deaths directly. Cancer treatments that have been missed or conditions left to get worse rather than attending hospital when they would’ve, it could be years before we know what those secondary peaks look like.

shmmeee · Apr 27, 2020

Found Doms Twitter account

wingy · Apr 27, 2020

https://www.hsj.co.uk/acute-care/ex...n-may-be-emerging-in-children/7027496.article

clint van damme · Apr 27, 2020

wingy said:
Exclusive: National alert as ‘coronavirus-related condition may be emerging in children’

That's not good news at all.

David O'Day · Apr 27, 2020

clint van damme said:
That's not good news at all.

If it is covid-19 related as it says some of the children had not had covid-19

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Gray · Apr 27, 2020

First question from the public and it's can I hug my grandchildren soon! What a waste of a question.

shmmeee · Apr 27, 2020

Has this been posted? Head of IT at ITV apparently and not an old guy by any means, read from the bottom up. Terrible stuff

chiefdave · Apr 27, 2020

Gray said:
First question from the public and it's can I hug my grandchildren soon! What a waste of a question.

Odd that they're taking questions from the public given the way the Conservative benches acted when Corbyn did the same in PMQs.

fernandopartridge · Apr 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Has this been posted? Head of IT at ITV apparently and not an old guy by any means, read from the bottom up. Terrible stuff

View attachment 14958

Bloody hell how tragic

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Has this been posted? Head of IT at ITV apparently and not an old guy by any means, read from the bottom up. Terrible stuff

View attachment 14958

Doesn't seem to load, what is it?

clint van damme · Apr 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Has this been posted? Head of IT at ITV apparently and not an old guy by any means, read from the bottom up. Terrible stuff

View attachment 14958

Terrible news.
And not the first story I've heard on the last few days of someone dying quite quickly after being diagnosed with the virus.
And when I say heard I mean.in the media, not from people I know but I can't recall hearing about cases taking that trajectory when this all started,.there may well have been.

shmmeee · Apr 27, 2020

Nick said:
Doesn't seem to load, what is it?

Tweets from a guy, 16th April he’s posting about his kid and pregnant girlfriend. Then 25th “Sorry I haven’t been on, got Covid and in hospital, nearly a gonner. Take it seriously” then yesterday a post from his brother saying he died in his sleep last night. Only young, seemingly no existing conditions.

Nick · Apr 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Tweets from a guy, 16th April he’s posting about his kid and pregnant girlfriend. Then 25th “Sorry I haven’t been on, got Covid and in hospital, nearly a gonner. Take it seriously” then yesterday a post from his brother saying he died in his sleep last night. Only young, seemingly no existing conditions.

Ah I didn't realise he was the head of it. Was about adopting the kid?

Really sad

David O'Day · Apr 27, 2020

Once again it can kill young people with no pre existing conditions.

This has always been known

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chiefdave · Apr 27, 2020

This money they're giving to the relatives of key workers who have tragically died. Are they going to have to sign paperwork which means they can't sue the government for negligence if they receive the money?

David O'Day · Apr 27, 2020

Panorama is really fucking damning for the government and in a sensible world should see mass resignations. But alas we liveca worldcwere cunts will just go hey Boris ladddd

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chiefdave · Apr 27, 2020

David O'Day said:
Panorama is really fucking damning for the government and in a sensible world should see mass resignations. But alas we liveca worldcwere cunts will just go hey Boris ladddd

Its a tough watch tonight. Sure I'm not the only one who is raging at what I am seeing. Even some of the basic stuff like counting each individual glove as a piece of PPE equipment and counting regular cleaning supplied. So said when one NHS employee said they get called so to make it ok when they die.

SkyBlueDom26 · Apr 27, 2020

shmmeee said:
Found Doms Twitter account

You should be pleased our leader is back and didn’t die from corona

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