Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (8 Viewers)

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SkyBlueDom26

SkyBlueDom26

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
Germany on verge of reintroducing lock down measures as cases start to rise again.

Behind a pay wall in the Times but this is what I could see!

"Germany
The country may be compelled to bring back elements of its lockdown amid signs that cases are on the point of starting to grow again.

The reproduction rate, which measures how many people the average Covid-19 patient can be expected to infect, has risen back to one, according to the Robert Koch Institute (RKI), a government health agency. A value higher than one suggests that the number of new cases will rise. Angela Merkel has warned that a sustained rate of 1.2 would exhaust intensive care capacity in hospitals as early as July.

The development is likely to exacerbate divisions over the country’s coronavirus strategy. Over the past week Germany’s 16 states have begun to reopen shops, schools, zoos and, in one case,"

Not good news.
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Yeah it isn’t good news but it will be a case of trial and error, can’t stay locked away all year this virus is here to stay and we’ve got to adapt to living with it at some point
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
David O'Day said:
I'll back them on that at the moment. As per the WHO there is not much evidence to back up the usage of them as the benefits could be outweighed by people not using them correctly and increasing the risk. You see so many people with them pulled down or to one side. Also lots of people keep touching them or taking them or butting them down.

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk
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That's down to the individual.
Can blame govts but at some point people got to take some responsibility - make the effort to use masks properly for example.
Can we assume that rest of Europe don't rate WHO advice?
UK govt has ignored most WHO advice in managing this situation - case finding, isolating cases, contact tracing, and strict quarantine of the contacts etc. Not sure why they're tying themselves to this bit.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Sky Blue Pete said:
Hancock says care home deaths are in line with yearly averages!!!!!???

What’s he smoking?
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Unless he means care home deaths at this point are in line with a whole year.

Which is a rather shitty way of spinning it.

Is there anyone left in the country who can just tell it like it is rather than manipulating things?
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Unless he means care home deaths at this point are in line with a whole year.

Which is a rather shitty way of spinning it.

Is there anyone left in the country who can just tell it like it is rather than manipulating things?
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It takes courage to admit that things aren't good when they aren't. He and a good number of his colleagues don't have it.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It takes courage to admit that things aren't good when they aren't. He and a good number of his colleagues don't have it.
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You gotta feel for them on some level. They wanted five years of culture wars and solving every problem by waving a little Union Jack and riling the idiots up about the war. They were never intended to be an actual government in charge of serious things.
 
tisza

tisza

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You gotta feel for them on some level. They wanted five years of culture wars and solving every problem by waving a little Union Jack and riling the idiots up about the war. They were never intended to be an actual government in charge of serious things.
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Actually feel this is a govt scared of the people and unpopularity. Unwilling to make strong decisions that are unpopular.

Even when they eventually get round to lockdowns etc. the enforcement is pitiful.
Almost begging people to co-operate. You're just not going to get full cooperation so need to hammer the small percentage who won't like the French, Italians and Spanish have done.

Boxing themselves into a corner re:exit plans. Already Germany seeing an immediate rise in cases after small easing of restrictions.
 
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shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Brighton Sky Blue said:
It wasn’t even populist it was just a charlatan holding pints in a fridge. This is why the left has to find a way to win
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It was. It’s was the “hang the pedos, kick out the pakis, and fund the NHS” Party. That’s always been the U.K. populist position.

Fund the NHS and promise to be tough on crime and immigration and you’ll get elected more often than not here.

The lefts way to win is to stop being so squeamish about crime, benefit fraud and reducing immigration and stop looking like you hate the country. It’s not rocket science but we are too good for it.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
It was. It’s was the “hang the pedos, kick out the pakis, and fund the NHS” Party. That’s always been the U.K. populist position.

Fund the NHS and promise to be tough on crime and immigration and you’ll get elected more often than not here.

The lefts way to win is to stop being so squeamish about crime, benefit fraud and reducing immigration and stop looking like you hate the country. It’s not rocket science but we are too good for it.
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The lefts way to address crime and immigration is to try and look at the root causes behind the problem... the populist option is blame the foreigner without ever making any headway to fixing it.

We know which way wins however - as per your point about looking like you love other countries more than your own.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
The lefts way to address crime and immigration is too try and look at the root causes behind the problem... the populist option is blame the foreigner without ever making any headway to fixing it.

We know which way wins however.
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“Tough on crime, tough on the causes of crime”. Perfect messaging. These days you’d be up in arms at the “dog whistle”.

As for immigration, TBH there’s nothing socialist about not protecting community cohesion or low paid workers. You can have high immigration as long as it’s not at the expense or poor communities. There’s a really good thread I read on this:



I’m not sure I agree that you can convince people rapid large scale low skilled immigration is good, but the points about taking people with you and planning where immigrants will live and work are good ones IMO.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Yet it means nothing, just a sound bite of words with literally no substance, bit like everything that Boris says.
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It’s not though is it?

Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).

You just don’t like Blair.
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
It’s not though is it?

Labour focused on reducing poverty and improving access to education (causes of crime) while also bringing in stuff like ASBOs (tough on crime).

You just don’t like Blair.
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You’re right I don’t like Blair.

He did do those things - he was massively helped by begging given a media platform to articulate the vision, show how these could and would work.

The ‘left’ don’t have a platform like that any more to articulate the vision and ideas (did they really ever is maybe another debate)

How do you combat that?
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
You’re right I don’t like Blair.

He did do those things - he was massively helped by begging given a media platform to articulate the vision, show how these could and would work.

The ‘left’ don’t have a platform like that any more to articulate the vision and ideas (did they really ever is maybe another debate)

How do you combat that?
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You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.

Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.

Only then do you get to whine about media bias.

The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.

Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.

None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.

I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.

Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.

Only then do you get to whine about media bias.

The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.

Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.

None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.

I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.
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Is it not a generational thing? Those who don’t rely on mainstream media for their news don’t tend to be over 50
 
Ian1779

Ian1779

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
You start by not refusing to talk to them, being arsey when you do talk to them, rant on and on about how their owners are evil and you’ll bankrupt them given half a chance.

Then you continue by being a professional outfit that is across its brief and getting lines out on time.

Only then do you get to whine about media bias.

The left were a massive disappointment the last five years. They were incompetent, lazy, conspiracy riddled. We don’t get to blame the media bias or anything else until we get our own house in order.

Then we need to be positive. Like the country and it’s people. Listen to their concerns and explain how we will solve them in simple clear messages about policy.

None of this is rocket science but we refuse to do it. It’s childish: “wearing a suit is Tory” “having a media strategy is Tory” “listening to voters and trying to win a majority is Tory”.

I’ll let you in on a secret: the media pander to the public, not the other way around. Murdoch backs winners because he sees which way the wind is blowing not because he’s an all powerful mastermind. When the left talk about “pandering to the right wing media” what they really mean is “pandering to the British public”. You may not agree with a majority of voters, I certainly don’t, but you’ve got to accept that in a democracy you need their support.
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Let’s say you’re right (and i can’t find much in there to disagree with) then why didn’t the left re-take control in 2015? They did these things you have said... but they went even further behind than in 2010
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Let’s say you’re right (and i can’t find much in there to disagree with) then why didn’t the left re-take control in 2015? They did these things you have said... but they went even further behind than in 2010
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Ed Miliband was an idiot
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
I think it’s safe to say we’ve fucked up the first wave monumentally. Will all come down to second wave and beyond now.

Noticed this below it as well:

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It could be that towards the end of the year we see a massive downhill cliff as we don't get the usual elderly people dying in winter and they've gone in the spring. The issue then will be the people with other conditions like cancer that haven't received treatment, but that is likely everywhere I reckon.

But it does look like our response has been woefully inadequate on a number of levels.
 
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