Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (11 Viewers)

Nick · May 1, 2020

clint van damme said:
But you only comment on the lesser issue.

If you were posting a continuing narrative of the situation fair enough but all you comment on is the tik tok videos, the London bridge gatherings and piers Morgan.

Very little about lack of PPE, missed testing targets act.
I can't understand why you think breaking social distancing guidelines is the more important issue.

Because I'm not pretending I know about graphs and curves, the same as I stated clear of the Brexit thread and the politics of it all. I'm not going to be scare mongered by a graph of tests every day, I can still think people are hypocritical dickheads who are virtue signalling though.

I'm clearly not trying to distract from anything and anybody who has read my posts on politics over the years will know I'm hardly driven by it and think they are all bullshitting cunts.

I posted today about delivery drivers rocking up with no ppe. I've posted plenty about it.

Ring Of Steel · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
We really aren’t far off the capacity for 100k tests a day though are we? Your going on like we’re still at 20k a day which is embarrassing...I agree at the start we didn’t do enough but the last few days we’ve really ramped it up and long may it continue.... hopefully this month we’ll see track and trance and antibody tests

Fuck me- U.K. is easily going to be the worst hit country in Europe, we were double counting PPE, failing to hit every false claim on testing, telling lie after lie, there are thousands more new cases every day, there is genuinely no end yet in sight despite what the pricks in govt say, and you’re still repeating all the same old horseshit you’re fed every day, are you as thick as pigshit or just on the wind up? Anyway got to look on the bright side- at least we’re going to be number one in Europe for something now- the death count.

clint van damme · May 1, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
Fuck me- U.K. is easily going to be the worst hot country in Europe, we were double counting PPE, failing to hit every false claim on testing, telling lie after lie, there are thousands more new cases every day, there is genuinely no end yet in sight despite what the pricks in govt say, and you’re still repeating all the same old horseshit you’re fed every day, are you as thick as pigshit or just on the wind up? Anyway got to look on the bright wide- at least we’re going to be number one on Europe for something now- the death count.

I'm of to bed. First post for a while ROS. Hope all is ok?

clint van damme · May 1, 2020

Nick said:
Because I'm not pretending I know about graphs and curves, the same as I stated clear of the Brexit thread and the politics of it all. I'm not going to be scare mongered by a graph of tests every day, I can still think people are hypocritical dickheads who are virtue signalling though.

I'm clearly not trying to distract from anything and anybody who has read my posts on politics over the years will know I'm hardly driven by it and think they are all bullshitting cunts.

I posted today about delivery drivers rocking up with no ppe. I've posted plenty about it.

I know you're not driven by politics which is why alarm bells ring when you obsess over people on s bridge!
Have a look at your posts on this subject and where the vast majority of your criticism is aimed.
It's not at the government whose performance is abject to say the least. That's weird.
Anyway, goodnight!

An

Ring Of Steel · May 1, 2020

clint van damme said:
I'm of to bed. First post for a while ROS. Hope all is ok?

all good on my side of things thanks- very busy and now have a huge beard but a strange and concerning-looking patch of self-shaved hair on my head. What’s not so good is I know 3 people (pretty close) who now have this thing, and it ain’t nice, in fact it’s like a horror movie, so when I see the usual suspects still justifying & excusing what the govt have done and pretending it’s a success and we’re almost there, tends to get a bit under my skin. Hope you’re well

Astute · May 1, 2020

clint van damme said:
I can't understand why you think breaking social distancing guidelines is the more important issue.

Social distancing is about the best useful tool we have. Personally I would be stricter with it. If people stop getting close and the virus is halted thousands of lives will be saved.

Yes the Tories are giving us false information. But they might have been misled. It is OK having extra testing equipment but you need qualified people to run them and then you need the chemicals to be able to test. We have had a limited amount of both. And personally I put this as a lower priority than stopping the virus spreading.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 1, 2020

Astute said:
Social distancing is about the best useful tool we have. Personally I would be stricter with it. If people stop getting close and the virus is halted thousands of lives will be saved.

Yes the Tories are giving us false information. But they might have been misled. It is OK having extra testing equipment but you need qualified people to run them and then you need the chemicals to be able to test. We have had a limited amount of both. And personally I put this as a lower priority than stopping the virus spreading.

Would be nice to know what the unspecified chemicals are to be fair

Astute · May 1, 2020

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Would be nice to know what the unspecified chemicals are to be fair

The different kits need different chemicals.

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

Grendel said:
Really?
Face masks cannot stop healthy people getting Covid-19, says WHO

Yes. Really. When you don’t refer to an article that’s nearly a month out of date. Will the rest of the UK follow Scotland on masks?

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueDom26 said:
We really aren’t far off the capacity for 100k tests a day though are we? Your going on like we’re still at 20k a day which is embarrassing...I agree at the start we didn’t do enough but the last few days we’ve really ramped it up and long may it continue.... hopefully this month we’ll see track and trance and antibody tests

Dom. It’s May, we’re lagging behind badly. Countries that had their first deaths after us got up to speed quicker than us and are now coming out of lockdown, registering zero home grown cases, registered significantly less cases per capita and significantly less deaths per capita. Finally reaching testing capacity after months of failure is not a cause for celebration. Ask the grieving family of avoidable victims.

shmmeee · May 1, 2020

Grendel said:
Really?
Face masks cannot stop healthy people getting Covid-19, says WHO

Yes really. Go to the source.

tisza · May 1, 2020

All these measures require cooperation from a large majority of the population. None work in isolation but as part of package.
Properly worn masks reduce the risk (but doesn't eliminate it) as does social distancing but there's nothing that guarantees 100% security once you're out of your home.
Going to be mini outbreaks where people haven't observed safer practices once restrictions eased.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 1, 2020

Astute said:
The different kits need different chemicals.

Perhaps if I knew what they were I'd understand what the actual issue is

Grendel · May 1, 2020

shmmeee said:
Yes really. Go to the source.

I have and I’ve read reports that say impact is minimal and can be counter productive as someone on this post agrees who actually is working not sitting at home clearly getting very agitated

Coronavirus: Public wearing masks is 'cosmetic, not effective' - UK doctor

SkyBlueCRJ · May 1, 2020

shmmeee said:
Yes really. Go to the source.

There's been a huge debate on this so I think common sense is required. Whilst masks can help prevent the spread you can still very easily pick up the virus despite wearing one. E.g. If someone coughs in your proximity or when taking it off after going outside. The risk is lessened but it still remains.

So, the article Grendal posted is still valid and countless scientists have confirmed that face masks may spark a false sense of confidence if not used in conjunction with social distancing where possible.

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

Grendel said:
I have and I’ve read reports that say impact is minimal and can be counter productive as someone on this post agrees who actually is working not sitting at home clearly getting very agitated

Coronavirus: Public wearing masks is 'cosmetic, not effective' - UK doctor

Again best part of a month out of date. It’s also an opinion piece based on one man’s comments.

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
There's been a huge debate on this so I think common sense is required. Whilst masks can help prevent the spread you can still very easily pick up the virus despite wearing one. E.g. If someone coughs in your proximity or when taking it off after going outside. The risk is lessened but it still remains.

So, the article Grendal posted is still valid and countless scientists have confirmed that face masks may spark a false sense of confidence if not used in conjunction with social distancing where possible.

The articles Grendull has linked are the best part of a month out of date. It’s like arguing a leach placed under the tongue is the best cure for a headache and ignoring everything that’s followed.

SkyBlueCRJ · May 1, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
The articles Grendull has linked are the best part of a month out of date. It’s like arguing a leach placed under the tongue is the best cure for a headache and ignoring everything that’s followed.

Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.

This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.

shmmeee · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
There's been a huge debate on this so I think common sense is required. Whilst masks can help prevent the spread you can still very easily pick up the virus despite wearing one. E.g. If someone coughs in your proximity or when taking it off after going outside. The risk is lessened but it still remains.

So, the article Grendal posted is still valid and countless scientists have confirmed that face masks may spark a false sense of confidence if not used in conjunction with social distancing where possible.

The comment I replied to was saying WHO said masks were pointless. They don’t.

Whether they are perfect or whether behavioural science is a respectable discipline are different questions entirely.

Grendel · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.

This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.

Exactly - is the suggestion we can all go back to normal life with a mask? Packed tubes, packed sports stadia, people taking them off to eat then putting them on again, people sneezing and coughing thinking they will be fine as they’ve got a ill fitting mask on to go out?

Sounds great

wingy · May 1, 2020

How one man spread coronavirus to NINE other people on his bus | Daily Mail Online

shmmeee · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.

This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.

Masks will obviously slow the spread. The counter arguments to what you’ve said are: they serve as a visual reminder of the situation, they help people not touch their mouths out of habit, and they prevent asymptomatic people spreading it unknowingly.

We aren’t looking for perfect. We are looking for multiple ways to slow the spread. Masks are such an obvious solution which is why Asian countries that have experienced pandemics use them extensively.

For some reason the edgelords on the internet have latched onto them for their latest “ackshually” but it’s fairly obvious why they’re recommended by several governments. The WHO has to advise in an environment where some countries have limited PPE supplies and don’t want panic buying.

SkyBlueCRJ · May 1, 2020

shmmeee said:
The comment I replied to was saying WHO said masks were pointless. They don’t.

Whether they are perfect or whether behavioural science is a respectable discipline are different questions entirely.

They're certainly not pointless otherwise by that logic the NHS workers might as well just care for patients in the nude and save everyone the trouble.

But they're only as useful as the person who wears them. Social distancing still needs to be actioned whilst wearing masks otherwise their usefulness lessens and as such the risk rises.

This is where I completely agree with scientists and medical practitioners who fear that masks may give off a false sense of security to people.

Grendel · May 1, 2020

shmmeee said:
Masks useless for you

Classic

Ring Of Steel · May 1, 2020

shmmeee said:
Masks will obviously slow the spread. The counter arguments to what you’ve said are: they serve as a visual reminder of the situation, they help people not touch their mouths out of habit, and they prevent asymptomatic people spreading it unknowingly.

We aren’t looking for perfect. We are looking for multiple ways to slow the spread. Masks are such an obvious solution which is why Asian countries that have experienced pandemics use them extensively.

For some reason the edgelords on the internet have latched onto them for their latest “ackshually” but it’s fairly obvious why they’re recommended by several governments. The WHO has to advise in an environment where some countries have limited PPE supplies and don’t want panic buying.

The problem is that there is no longer any choice about opening things up, if it goes on much longer then the economy will be completely destroyed. Its not a matter of "yes, its all good now, we can open up", its "we have no option, what can we do to try and minimise the damage".

Masks aren't being touted as a way to solve the problem, they are to try and keep the number of deaths & infections as low as possible when lockdown is phased out. Because they've made such a disaster of everything so far they have to try anything to avoid a huge second wave, which is coming as soon as this mythical exit plan is rolled out.

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
Your argument isn't relevant - like I said use your common sense. Wearing masks won't guarantee you not catching the virus, they simply minimise the risk of transmission. If social distancing is not actioned where possible in conjunction with wearing them then you can see why some have claimed their use only goes so far. Especially as you can catch Covid through your eyes.

This is where they need to be careful when opening up public transport to all. As masks won't be enough to stop the spread on packed trains/tubes.

It’s not just about catching though it’s about spreading. Just last week the latest modelling on coughing and sneezing in confined spaces came out. If you have it but not yet presenting symptoms and are in a supermarket, cough and/or sneeze you don’t just contaminate the isle you’re in (and by a greater distance than 2 meters by the way) you also contaminate the isles either side of the one you’re in. Unless you’re wearing a face masks to contain it. Without a face mask you can quite easily pass it on to four people who are social distancing from you without a mask. The WHO never said what Grendull said they said when you read the articles that he himself posted, couple that with this being a fast moving situation where advice is changing day to day let alone week to week and even those articles that don’t say what he says they say are out of date advice. I suspect when the world wide demand for face masks has caught up the WHO advice will change on wearing them as (as you say) part of a bigger picture. No one has said masks on their own is the answer, it’s quite clearly one piece of a bigger puzzle in dealing with this but by the same token no one has said that wearing masks is a complete waste of time like Grendull claims.

SkyBlueCRJ · May 1, 2020

shmmeee said:
Masks will obviously slow the spread. The counter arguments to what you’ve said are: they serve as a visual reminder of the situation, they help people not touch their mouths out of habit, and they prevent asymptomatic people spreading it unknowingly.

We aren’t looking for perfect. We are looking for multiple ways to slow the spread. Masks are such an obvious solution which is why Asian countries that have experienced pandemics use them extensively.

For some reason the edgelords on the internet have latched onto them for their latest “ackshually” but it’s fairly obvious why they’re recommended by several governments. The WHO has to advise in an environment where some countries have limited PPE supplies and don’t want panic buying.

But I could counter your counter argument and claim they could give people a false sense of security and invite people to think that it's okay to gather in groups when it almost certainly isn't until a vaccine is found and distributed accordingly.

Masks are almost certainly necessary but they need to be used in the correct manner otherwise the initial argument is justified. This is shown in cases such as in Japan where despite people using them extensively throughout the pandemic, they have experienced second outbreaks after lifting their lockdown. Like I said they need to be used in conjunction with social distancing otherwise their usefulness is rendered null and void.

Grendel · May 1, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
It’s not just about catching though it’s about spreading. Just last week the latest modelling on coughing and sneezing in confined spaces came out. If you have it but not yet presenting symptoms and are in a supermarket, cough and/or sneeze you don’t just contaminate the isle you’re in (and by a greater distance than 2 meters by the way) you also contaminate the isles either side of the one you’re in. Unless you’re wearing a face masks to contain it. Without a face mask you can quite easily pass it on to four people who are social distancing from you without a mask. The WHO never said what Grendull said they said when you read the articles that he himself posted, couple that with this being a fast moving situation where advice is changing day to day let alone week to week and even those articles that don’t say what he says they say are out of date advice. I suspect when the world wide demand for face masks has caught up the WHO advice will change on wearing them as (as you say) part of a bigger picture. No one has said masks on their own is the answer, it’s quite clearly one piece of a bigger puzzle in dealing with this but by the same token no one has said that wearing masks is a complete waste of time like Grendull claims.

Ive said it encourages behaviours that will make situations worse - lovely try though - WHO comments that healthy people need not wear them and those with a cough should. People with a cough should self isolate - the comments from Smith he confirmed and stood by yesterday on TV. Shall I go with a senior virologist from Cambridge or Tony tough call

Grendel · May 1, 2020

Ring Of Steel said:
The problem is that there is no longer any choice about opening things up, if it goes on much longer then the economy will be completely destroyed. Its not a matter of "yes, its all good now, we can open up", its "we have no option, what can we do to try and minimise the damage".

Masks aren't being touted as a way to solve the problem, they are to try and keep the number of deaths & infections as low as possible when lockdown is phased out. Because they've made such a disaster of everything so far they have to try anything to avoid a huge second wave, which is coming as soon as this mythical exit plan is rolled out.

I agree on the economy bit though some experts think it will be a piece of piss and we can lockdown for 6 years if we have to

SkyBlueCRJ · May 1, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
It’s not just about catching though it’s about spreading. Just last week the latest modelling on coughing and sneezing in confined spaces came out. If you have it but not yet presenting symptoms and are in a supermarket, cough and/or sneeze you don’t just contaminate the isle you’re in (and by a greater distance than 2 meters by the way) you also contaminate the isles either side of the one you’re in. Unless you’re wearing a face masks to contain it. Without a face mask you can quite easily pass it on to four people who are social distancing from you without a mask. The WHO never said what Grendull said they said when you read the articles that he himself posted, couple that with this being a fast moving situation where advice is changing day to day let alone week to week and even those articles that don’t say what he says they say are out of date advice. I suspect when the world wide demand for face masks has caught up the WHO advice will change on wearing them as (as you say) part of a bigger picture. No one has said masks on their own is the answer, it’s quite clearly one piece of a bigger puzzle in dealing with this but by the same token no one has said that wearing masks is a complete waste of time like Grendull claims.

That's their primary use and where they're considered most effective, by containing the virus if you have it. Which is why wearing them should be mandatory when going outside as there are people as you say are asymptomatic or are actually stupid enough to go out in public before the incubation period cut off point despite having it because they think they feel well enough.

To be fair they did at the start - even Chris Whitty more or less claimed they didn't work with regards to stopping the contraction of the virus - but like you said the information is changing weekly if not daily so what was said last month may not be relevant or even at all accurate now.

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

Grendel said:
The WHO say they are pointless don’t they?

Grendel · May 1, 2020

Amazing how following the changing science which the government has done all along seems in vogue today

Seems the government approach of following the changing science is gaining support

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

SkyBlueCRJ said:
That's their primary use and where they're considered most effective, by containing the virus if you have it. Which is why wearing them should be mandatory when going outside as there are people as you say are asymptomatic or are actually stupid enough to go out in public before the incubation period cut off point despite having it because they think they feel well enough.

To be fair they did at the start - even Chris Whitty more or less claimed they didn't work with regards to stopping the contraction of the virus - but like you said the information is changing weekly if not daily so what was said last month may not be relevant or even at all accurate now.

That depends on how you define stopping you catching it. If everyone wears masks in public your chances of coming into contact with the pathogen will be greatly reduced. You reduce the chance of coming into contact you reduce the chance of becoming infected. It’s very simple maths.

skybluetony176 · May 1, 2020

Grendel said:
Amazing how following the changing science which the government has done all along seems in vogue today

Seems the government approach of following the changing science is gaining support

The government has done it at least two weeks later than they should have though. So actually it’s the other way around it seems that the common sense approach of following scientific advice is catching on with the government.

SkyBlueCRJ · May 1, 2020

skybluetony176 said:
That depends on how you define stopping you catching it. If everyone wears masks in public your chances of coming into contact with the pathogen will be greatly reduced. You reduce the chance of coming into contact you reduce the chance of becoming infected. It’s very simple maths.

That's what I'm saying though. If everyone wears them but social distancing isn't adhered to then the chances of coming into contact with the virus aren't greatly reduced. They'll certainly help but in many ways they're just delaying the inevitable of a second outbreak - which is what has essentially happened in Japan.

But as you and I have said if everyone wears the masks AND adheres to social distancing where possible then the chances of coming into contact with the virus IS greatly reduced. It's pretty simple as you say, guidelines need to be implemented in order to maximise their effectiveness though.

Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (11 Viewers)

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