Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Trying to work out which civil servant is to blame provably
Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (356 Viewers)
- Thread starter BackRoomRummermill
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Ian1779
Well-Known Member
You would hope that’s what they’d do. Plenty of schools will do the opposite which is a shame.
How many was it fp at the peak?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I’ve written mocks every year, always agree what different teachers will have covered by a certain point and go no further. You don’t gain anything useful from them otherwise.
Was good enough for my Btec, which was broad enough to opt for technical or lower management roles
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
You can just wing it though
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Around 5.5k with positive test albeit with testing smaller numbers of already hospitalised patients. I think they thought new infections were running at something like 20k a day at the time.
Are we beginning to lose control again, like France and Spain to name just two?
Test and trace seems to be stuggling and the less they manage to trace the more cases are likely to go up. As cases go up they will have more contacts to trace which in turn could swamp the system and we'll be back to square one again.
Test and trace seems to be stuggling and the less they manage to trace the more cases are likely to go up. As cases go up they will have more contacts to trace which in turn could swamp the system and we'll be back to square one again.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
My concern is we're not 'following the science'. We were told for weeks that it was OK so long as we kept cases below 1K a day, today its 1,940. Since going over the 1K early in August there's been very few days where it has dropped back below that threshold. What's the response been? To continue opening things up.
Same with schools. The governments own experts were saying if schools and universities were to open something else would have to close to offset it, hasn't happened. If, as we are told, schools and universities are irrelevant in terms of transmission why are other countries closing them when case numbers rise?
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Now when schools have reopened mysteriously the availability of tests in the community seems to have gone. Is it supply or demand?
Looks like the same mess that was made back in February and March is going to happen again, and the Tories emboldened by getting away with it the first time will just get away with it again.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Not sure they will. First time out it was a new situation, you can have sympathy for a government trying to make sense of a fast movijng situation and, sure, failing now and again, but trying. Now, however, they've had six months to plan. No excuses if they cock it up this time around, it's on them.
There was a rediculously low number quoted of those traced the other day , for a specific day, can't remember which or how many though.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Because they wanted to sell the falsehood that you could reopen schools in full with little consequence.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
I admire your optimism but have a look at Facebook. Look at what Cock and Co are doing now with the flip flopping quarantine rules, it's all "look over there" and in the end the blame for any further spikes will go on the virus being imported. Much bigger factors like the still abysmal test and trace system will be washed over.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
For some, maybe. I'd like to think there are still enough people (History graduates
) with critical thinking ability to at least swing it around a little.Let's hope so, anyway. Democracy only works if there's accountability, otherwise the public consent to a dictatorship.
Any sign of that app, btw?!?
Don’t disagree that there’s been fuck ups aplenty by the government (Latest one appears to not be changing quarantine rules/timescales following an airport test - which is too cautious if anything !), however, looking at the case numbers across Europe (we’re similar to Italy and Germany...France and Spain have been substantially more I’ve the past 2-3 weeks) most governments appear to have decided that as long as hospital admissions/deaths don’t spike, higher case numbers are currently acceptable
Reopening schools and hopefully keeping them open, at least until colder months/flu season is 100% the right thing to do.
Ps we are also testing more than most equivalent nations by the looks of things.
Reopening schools and hopefully keeping them open, at least until colder months/flu season is 100% the right thing to do.
Ps we are also testing more than most equivalent nations by the looks of things.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
France and Spain had record 1 day figures yesterday including in the peak of their previous wave
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
I'd agree. The mixed messaging is, however, the scientific advice (who's heard from them in a while?!?) was to close other things to mitigate, but instead we're getting an advertising campaign to encourage people back to offices.
And that's where I have most issue. As you know, at the beginning of this I was sympathetic to the government, and scientific advice changes all the time anyway in something like this, so there's always going to be an element of 'u turning' but... it looks like they've forgotten about following the science really and, if they haven't, they're not doing a great job of explaining it to us!
Is there a decent track and trace system currently operating in Europe though Fernando ? Looking at the numbers I’m guessing not. The data is only as good as the public share. The attempts for a better Bluetooth/tech system was a joke/waste but no current systems appear to be working work well
As I’ve alluded to before I think ministers should be held accountable (and senior civil servants in charge of certain units that have failed to deliver during the pandemic). Government and certain senior elements of public sector (not front line) have not stood up to what has admittedly has been the greatest of tests in recent time’s. Williamson and Hancock should still go in my book. But people should look around and note that there’s fuck ups all over the world (check Frances mandatory mask Instructions/measures recently)
Ps been trying to avoid debating on here as people have understandably got their entrenched positions on this and unlikely to budge
Agree, communication have been poor and mixed.
This isn’t defending the government as I think there should have been recent TV briefings (not daily but when something significant happened, such as schools reopening) to ensure clear, concise messaging from Johnson alone - probably impossible but you get what I mean !!! But a lot is due to scientific data:evidence being inconclusive. I don’t think many scientists are still convinced that mask wearing, unless in confined spaces and/or people coughing/shouting, does any good. I still wear mine where requested by the way
Anyway off again, have a good day all. Let’s hope today’s figures aren’t another big jump (ie under 2k) but more importantly keep a close eye on hospital admissions and patients on ventilators. This is useful if anyone’s interested Coronavirus (COVID-19) in the UK
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
The scientist in me looks at the probable death rate of all cases being less than 1% and questions why we are acting like this is the worst disease in living memory. It also sees huge contradictions in the school measures that even the students can spot and have little faith in. For instance I don’t have to sanitise every sheet I hand out but our lab equipment has to have 72 hours of sanitisation before it can be reused.
I fully comply with the measures even though I don’t agree with them. I see few getting hospitalised despite high case numbers (and the true case number will be far higher than the official) and again question why I am not allowed to teach my subject normally. Then when viruses come around that will actually cause symptoms in young people they will have to go off school in case they have a virus that tends not to.
It’s the frustration of having bullshit imposed on me that is making my job harder than it needs to be.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I do find the media induced fear which is not born out by the statistics at all the worst thing. I do actually know 2 people who died from it (one had a long standing condition) but everything seems hugely disproportionate
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I agree with caution while there are lots more unknowns about a new disease. However we’re 9 months on from the outbreak and know that while the % mortality is higher than the flu, it is likely still below 1% and it’s those with underlying conditions who are at higher general risk who are more likely to be hospitalised or worse.
The restrictions all being in place specifically because so many don’t have symptoms is the biggest contradiction of the whole thing. Appreciate it’s not a popular view
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
I have been wondering if there will be a big push this year to enforce kids/people with colds etc to definitely stay away. Having that spreading affecting both the respiratory system and the immune system together could make Covid a bigger problem even for young, healthy people. Or even how someone recovered from a severe case of Covid will be if they contract a cold or flu if their lungs etc have had some damage. I also wonder if colds and flus might not be quite so bad as people are being more careful with contact, people aren't shaking hands, masks etc.
It may be it'd have little to no effect whatsoever but I'm not aware of any studies regarding this at the moment so it's definitely an unknown, but should be erred on the side of caution.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
The encouraging thing is that although cases are high deaths aren't increasing. Hopefully this means either the disease is getting weaker or we've started to develop the antibodies to fight it.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Experts will say it will creep into more vulnerable members and then hospitals will get full and then deaths will go up
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
At the risk of repeating myself, autumn/winter is the big test. Come through that, and it's vaguely optimistic. What we mustn't do is repeat what we did last time and dither if things are looking bad here and, for that matter, elsewhere. I actually agree with the opening up with extreme caution, as we're still keeping the weakest away from the disease in that way, while seeing what happens and being able to gather more information to decide the next step.
Well... I agree with that if I thought we were actually following science. As it stands, we appear to be following random populism, and that's dangerous in both respects - either keeping us shut needlessly, or even opening us up because people decide it's alright.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I don’t want future society to permanently involve people being scared of passing diseases on to each other. For this winter there likely is a risk of ‘superinfection’ from catching COVID and the cold/flu. The problem of course is that the latter diseases invariably cause symptoms and so you would have schools that could be half in half out and unworkable. My view is that parents of higher risk children or those in higher risk households should be allowed to keep them out. The rest should either also be kept out or allowed in under normal conditions.
The cold will likely do more harm to a child than COVID.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Thatcher, Blair, Brown. Of the Prime Ministers in my lifetime, they're who I'd have wanted in charge atm. Who knows what would have happened with May, and Cameron would have been led too much by Osborne and it would have been purely about the economy. Callaghan and Major would have been pretty ineffectual, I reckon.
All very much a what-if, of course, but I reckon the current bloke's right at the bottom of who you'd want to lead in a pandemic!
All very much a what-if, of course, but I reckon the current bloke's right at the bottom of who you'd want to lead in a pandemic!
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
We aren’t showing extreme caution, we’re imposing a contradictory half way house in schools that inconveniences everyone for dubious benefit. The government is also very clear that parents can’t keep children out of school if they’re scared of COVID. The actions are not proportional to the severity of the disease for the general population.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
I'm not bothered about being inconvenienced tbh. That's a small thing to have to deal with.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
That is a fear but for once I'm trying to be optimistic.
Biggest question is if that happens will there be the balls to go back into lockdown to contain it? I don't think there will be. We're already seeing things being opened up without other things closing which was supposedly the plan. So if it does it could well be rampant over winter (leaked reports suggested 85k deaths over winter worst case scenario). But I don't want to consider how bad that may be so I'm sticking my fingers in my ears and repeating "deaths are low".
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It isn’t small for me, it’s torn up how I can teach my subject and more broadly just do my job. I can tolerate having to wear masks in places and sanitise my hands outside of that.
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Deleted member 5849
Guest
Well, we all have hassles as a result of this. But an inconvenience is a small thing really. Adapting is just the way it is.