Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Seen that suggested
Seen that suggestedWhy not offer a job seeker bonus? If you move from a furloughed role to a non then you get £1k or something? Would probably work out cheaper overall and give people and incentive to look before the shit hits the fan.
Why not offer a job seeker bonus? If you move from a furloughed role to a non then you get £1k or something? Would probably work out cheaper overall and give people and incentive to look before the shit hits the fan.
Why not offer a job seeker bonus? If you move from a furloughed role to a non then you get £1k or something? Would probably work out cheaper overall and give people and incentive to look before the shit hits the fan.
Misread it. I thought it was a payment to the new employer for making a non furloughed post . SorryIsn’t the issue more that people in certain industries that are still under restrictions won’t be able to find work in another one?
Gets tricky though doesn't it...most folks redundancy payout will be higher than £1K......you're not gonna jump from the furlough ship if you're still getting 80% of your wedge & are waiting for a redundancy payout
Isn’t the issue more that people in certain industries that are still under restrictions won’t be able to find work in another one?
Fair points. I guess I don’t really know what the makeup of the furloughed jobs is right now. Seems like there should be a mid point between let em rot and keep paying forever though.
I agree, but we learned from Thatcher what happens when industries are culled and there is no replacement. I don’t know what the answer is.
I actually find it reassuring - shows standards are being keptReports that the Oxford vaccine trials have been halted as someone taking part has fallen seriously ill. Not the news anyone wanted to wake up to.
There are some models in other developed countries which we can be creative with I thinkAgreed. Especially when you look at studies on the efficacy of government retraining programs (they don’t work).
I find it sad that increasingly the public sector is been plagued by the profit motive - nowadays in schools, hospitals and the like, you have a whole load of intermediaries from the private sector looking to get their share of money that is supposed to aid health care and education. Too many intermediaries getting a piece of the pie for just being there.What we need is huge state investment in "green jobs" and I don't just mean people building solar cells or wind turbines.....
i'm also talking low-carbon labour.....pretty much any non-profit driven job is green. Caring, teaching, nursing etc.
But these tory cunts (or new new labour for that matter) won't do that.......they're all still sucking from the neoliberal profit driven teat.
The furlough scheme should go on for as long as it takes to get back to normal. The government can't on the one hand impose restrictions that severely reduce business demand and on the other wash their hands of the effects of it.
There is no such thing as 'taxpayer's cash'. Tax does not fund public spending, tax drives demand for the currency.
Gets tricky though doesn't it...most folks redundancy payout will be higher than £1K......you're not gonna jump from the furlough ship if you're still getting 80% of your wedge & are waiting for a redundancy payout
There are some models in other developed countries which we can be creative with I think
Yep that’s a balanced opinionI know all the arguments against it and agree with some but can’t help but feel UBI is the answer here. Enable companies to hire and fire and be more nimble without creating mass destitution and sucking all demand out of the economy.
Business needs stability and we are a million miles from that, mostly not of the governments making.
Yep that’s a balanced opinion
Fair point and you'll know better about the motor industry, probably pretty convenient for them regardless of coronavirus given the early signs of downtown anywayIts a double edged sword though isnt it. If you look say at motor manufacturing it has been an easy answer for the wage heavy big businesses to furlough people and eliminate risk - that it turn is starving demand of smaller suppliers and they are going to go down. Removing it certainly for larger businesses forces them back - otherwise the supplier base will be dead by the time they do.
Its actually been too easy to get and too generous and like all other drugs when its turned off whenever it is there is going to be consequences.
Countries that are extending from what I see have never been as generous as the 80% anyway
The rate set would be as high or nearly as high after tax as many jobs. If you pay that on top of redundancy people would want out and how would you make them go back? Where has it ever actually worked?
Fair point and you'll know better about the motor industry, probably pretty convenient for them regardless of coronavirus given the early signs of downtown anyway
I know all the arguments against it and agree with some but can’t help but feel UBI is the answer here. Enable companies to hire and fire and be more nimble without creating mass destitution and sucking all demand out of the economy.
Business needs stability and we are a million miles from that, mostly not of the governments making.
Some fair points Shmmee but our employment laws don’t allow for companies to just hire and fire, well not for longer serving staff (2+ years). The furlough scheme (to be fair one of the better things the government has done) was set up to keep as many people in employment as possible and then ensure firms would be ready to go again once we got through the outbreak. Unfortunately we still haven’t got through it so I think additional support for some sectors is the only real answer (retail, hospitality etc)
Ps some of the comments on here about the latest steps to stem the increases in case numbers is ill informed at best and anti government ranting at worst (driven I guess by the media - which as I’ve said before has been beyond poor during the pandemic). People can draw their own conclusions about what measures the government should take from the data but would I would suggest reading - National COVID-19 surveillance reports
I’ve said before there have been fuck ups (care homes and lack of PPE stock/poor supply planning being the main two), many not exclusive to the UK, however, I’d be surprised if many countries released the amount of information/data that we do on the subject. Unfortunately not much of it is read or interpreted....or to their own detriment, communicated properly by the government.
That's interesting. It's been the other way for me, as they've seen being furloughed as putting you on the priority list for redundancy.. In practical terms though as well people were mortally offended that I know when they were actually selected to work than furloughed and the longer it carries on the longer that malaise will exist
I know all the arguments against it and agree with some but can’t help but feel UBI is the answer here. Enable companies to hire and fire and be more nimble without creating mass destitution and sucking all demand out of the economy.
Business needs stability and we are a million miles from that, mostly not of the governments making.
There's nothing stopping companies making jobs that don't exist redundant other than them not wanting to pay redundancy. Don't know how representative it is but I know at my company there is a lot of staff on furlough yet speaking to the few that are in they are saying its chaos and the workload is immense so are the people on furlough in jobs that no longer exist or are companies using the scheme as a way to save a few quid?That said, he has got a bit of a point in that there are now clearly jobs that no longer exist in reality, so to continue to pay folks a couple grand a month to sit at home doing nothing, suspended in limbo & unable to look for new employment etc is not a productive use of taxpayer cash. Its just a very expensive & unfair way of delaying the inevitable. Harsh, but true.
I know all the arguments against it and agree with some but can’t help but feel UBI is the answer here. Enable companies to hire and fire and be more nimble without creating mass destitution and sucking all demand out of the economy.
Business needs stability and we are a million miles from that, mostly not of the governments making.
I've never been a fan of UBI but I can see how it could be helpful in this instance.
Trouble is if it were to become standard any similar occurrence in the future wouldn't have the same effect because the market will have realigned itself to take more of the UBI payment, costs will have gone up as a result and the UBI would be insufficient to cover basic expenditure.
They were discussing exactly that on Radio 4 recently and they seemed to agree that if it was implemented properly those issues could be avoided. Spoke about things like rent controls which they said would be very easy to implement as every property already has a council tax band which could be used, things like that.Trouble is if it were to become standard any similar occurrence in the future wouldn't have the same effect because the market will have realigned itself to take more of the UBI payment, costs will have gone up as a result and the UBI would be insufficient to cover basic expenditure.
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