Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (7 Viewers)

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fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Philosorapter said:
Yes, but we must protect the economy.

How much of a sociopath do you have to be to toe this line?

Its all about the money.
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It doesn't protect 'the economy'.

As i've posted previously, 'the economy' to a Conservative (and New Labour) politician does not mean the livelihoods of the masses, it means the very wealthy.

The inaction the first time around left our economy in a worst state and now the job losses are piling up.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
the excess death rate since March is similar to the worse 7 months of the Blitz, were people then saying fuck going down air raid shelters any more, or wearing gas masks or shipping kids out to the country, let's get back to normal, get those kids back in school?!
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
shmmeee said:
A country that has a fiat currency can’t run out of money.

As long as growth and inflation beat interest rates it’s always worth borrowing to invest.

It’s absolutely insane and economically illiterate to destroy the economy worrying about today’s deficit when you will need to spend exponentially more to get back what you’ve lost.

Jesus can you imagine these morons in charge during WW2? “Sorry we’re out of money for spitfires, got to keep the deficit under control” ... ten years later your deficit doesn’t matter cos you trade in Deutschmarks.

If we push millions out of work, destroy viable businesses, push people into mental health crises, it’ll cost us so much to get back.
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Inflation is the only thing to really worry about.

@Deleted member 5849 have a read of 'The Deficit Myth' which exposes the completely false paradigm presented to us since the 70s
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Well, I would consider being allowed out once a day for exercise across the whole nation as pretty much shielding.

Sending patients into care homes from hospital is a completely different thing.
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We previously shielded everyone and that didn't work.

That was your original quote. Maybe I'm mad but when we talk about everyone I assume that to include the people in care homes.

Besides which we had the lockdown and the number of cases, deaths etc fell. We've opened stuff up and their rising again. So it's easy to argue that it did work as there's a correlation. Of course there will likely be other factors (the change in temperatures etc) that made a difference but when you look at other places like Brazil with a hotter climate than us that didn't shut down and their cases haven't dropped off it adds more credibility to the thought it was the lockdown that had the bigger effect than the weather.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
It doesn't protect 'the economy'.

As i've posted previously, 'the economy' to a Conservative (and New Labour) politician does not mean the livelihoods of the masses, it means the very wealthy.

The inaction the first time around left our economy in a worst state and now the job losses are piling up.
Click to expand...

The reason the economy to them is based around the wealthy is because of the metric used to assess 'success'. As long as the overall mean average growth improves then the economy has improved and getting a handful of billionnaires significant increases in wealth is far easier to achieve than getting millions of people a few grand better off.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
If Johnson and the Tories were these business minded geniuses, they'd have listened to everything the scientists told them. Ultimately, there was no trade off between 'following the science' and protecting the economy. The best thing to do was to take all the steps to minimise the spread of the virus as soon as possible. In both health and economic terms we'd be much much better off. Instead we've ended up in the worst of both worlds.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
the excess death rate since March is similar to the worse 7 months of the Blitz, were people then saying fuck going down air raid shelters any more, or wearing gas masks or shipping kids out to the country, let's get back to normal, get those kids back in school?!
Click to expand...

For a person that harps on about WWII, Blitz spirit etc Johnson seems totally unaware of things like rationing. Does he think people were calling for that, or that is was popular? Of course it wasn't, but it was necessary. And people grudgingly accepted it because they knew it had to happen for the overall good.

So it is now with a 'circuit breaker'. It might not be popular but it's necessary, now grow some balls and implement it.
 
K

Kieranp96

Well-Known Member
fernandopartridge said:
If Johnson and the Tories were these business minded geniuses, they'd have listened to everything the scientists told them. Ultimately, there was no trade off between 'following the science' and protecting the economy. The best thing to do was to take all the steps to minimise the spread of the virus as soon as possible. In both health and economic terms we'd be much much better off. Instead we've ended up in the worst of both worlds.
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The science he was told about herd immunity, he tried everyone moaned so he locked us down.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
Johnson seems to have lost control of local government, lost control of the virus and thrown in the towel on Brexit negotiations (yeah I know it’s probably an awful bluff he has already played 17 times) in one week. Absolute shit show. It would be funny if he wasn’t backed by maniacs who will stay with him while the country falls apart.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Kieranp96 said:
The science he was told about herd immunity, he tried everyone moaned so he locked us down.
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because it's highly unlikely to work without a vaccine. And like most people, I'm not an expert just what I've read about since this think started and it seems to be the consensus among many scientists though no doubt you'll dig up some crack pot like Sikora who states otherwise but that doesn't prove it to be true.
 
fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Kieranp96 said:
The science he was told about herd immunity, he tried everyone moaned so he locked us down.
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No. Herd immunity was the cover used for not following the correct course of action. Not least because of the extent to which his government and its predecessors had decimated the state's ability to respond, including ignoring recommendations from Operation Cygnus.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Herd immunity would maybe also have been a viable strategy had getting coronavirus made you immune. Now there's serious doubt on that, and evidence to the contrary emerging, it's probably best to not even think about it for a while.

But... science evolves, evidence emerges, that's what it does. Otherwise we'd still be using calves blood for transfusions, under the belief it calmed people with fits of rage.

clint van damme said:
like most people, I'm not an expert
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It seems there's a certain I'm not an expert, but I'm going to ignore the experts' views on this because it doesn't tally with my wishes or beliefs.

And *that's* crazy.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
I blame Corbyn .
Calling the election when he did .
Couldn't have been a worse time for these lot to be still shagging themselves on the brilliance of the result .
There pants were firmly round their ankles .
Absolutely blind.
 
K

Kieranp96

Well-Known Member
djr8369 said:
No, just no. Not remotely what happened and herd immunity isn’t a viable strategy. It’s something you achieve eventually after years and/or a vaccine.
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Not saying it was but people didn't want lockdown so he tried herd immunity on the advice of his advisors, like 2 weeks later they l oked down as people were complaining about cases deaths ect, my point is you can't please everybody especially in todays day of age.
 
K

Kieranp96

Well-Known Member
clint van damme said:
because it's highly unlikely to work without a vaccine. And like most people, I'm not an expert just what I've read about since this think started and it seems to be the consensus among many scientists though no doubt you'll dig up some crack pot like Sikora who states otherwise but that doesn't prove it to be true.
Click to expand...
No my point is you can't please very one no matter what somebody moans.
 
Jamesimus

Jamesimus

Well-Known Member
Kieranp96 said:
Not saying it was but people didn't want lockdown so he tried herd immunity on the advice of his advisors, like 2 weeks later they l oked down as people were complaining about cases deaths ect, my point is you can't please everybody especially in todays day of age.
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Honestly, nothing else to say to this other than its complete shite.
 
B

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Kieranp96 said:
Not saying it was but people didn't want lockdown so he tried herd immunity on the advice of his advisors, like 2 weeks later they l oked down as people were complaining about cases deaths ect, my point is you can't please everybody especially in todays day of age.
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Defending the useless twat at every turn
 
Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Earlsdon_Skyblue1

Well-Known Member
Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
We previously shielded everyone and that didn't work.

That was your original quote. Maybe I'm mad but when we talk about everyone I assume that to include the people in care homes.

Besides which we had the lockdown and the number of cases, deaths etc fell. We've opened stuff up and their rising again. So it's easy to argue that it did work as there's a correlation. Of course there will likely be other factors (the change in temperatures etc) that made a difference but when you look at other places like Brazil with a hotter climate than us that didn't shut down and their cases haven't dropped off it adds more credibility to the thought it was the lockdown that had the bigger effect than the weather.
Click to expand...

Right, ok. Did we shield a lot of people who weren't vulnerable? Yes we did.
 
D

djr8369

Well-Known Member
Kieranp96 said:
Not saying it was but people didn't want lockdown so he tried herd immunity on the advice of his advisors, like 2 weeks later they l oked down as people were complaining about cases deaths ect, my point is you can't please everybody especially in todays day of age.
Click to expand...
No, this still isn’t what happened either.
 
chiefdave

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Right, ok. Did we shield a lot of people who weren't vulnerable? Yes we did.
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I think you're getting shielding mixed up with something else. People that were told to shield were not allowed to leave the house at all. They also had to distance from anyone in their household - the advise was not to be in the same room.
 
clint van damme

clint van damme

Well-Known Member
Decent article

www.spectator.co.uk

What lockdown sceptics get wrong

One of the more peculiar features of Covid is just how cleanly the crisis has split us down political lines. As a serving Tory councillor, you may assume that my views on masks, lockdown and the virus are predictable. But I’m also a microbiologist and I’m dismayed by the attitudes of some fellow...
www.spectator.co.uk www.spectator.co.uk
 
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