Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (182 Viewers)

[CCFCSteve]

The point for me is it's shown how fragile the way we work the economy is and reliant on the status quo. So for me what that means is a rethink on how things work, how we can change and adapt to those changes and become more robust. Instead it's just 'let's get back to the way things were'.

It's a massive opportunity missed. This could well be the defining moment where we had the chance to pull away from self-destruction and said "nah, fuck it"

I think loads of businesses will be having a massive rethink SBD and there will definitely be far more WFH in future if productivity has remaining the same or higher, due to the massive cost savings and also giving their employees a better work/life balance

You cannot change the whole structure of large parts of the economy overnight without it costing hundreds of thousands (or more) of jobs though

 

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[CCFCSteve]

What business is it of the governments if I want to continue working from home?

It’s up to your employer, if that’s the government then it’s their business. If they’re not then it’s nothing to do with them

 

[CCFCSteve]

You see I was reasonably cheerful. Now I think if this is the good news, God help us!

Haha, sorry NW. I was just trying to bring some perspective for a majority of people of a working age

 

[fernandopartridge]

Nothing to do with following anyone’s line Fernando. Unfortunately, that’s the stock response to anyone who doesn’t agree with peoples arguments on here.

I’m not saying everyone needs to go back into work, in actual fact I think one of the few benefits of this whole shitstorm will be more people WFH which is better for the environment and people’s work/life balance. However, there is no need for a vast majority of the population to be WFH all the time. Citys are currently ghost towns as I’d imagine only 5-10% are going in (I’ve been into Birmingham a couple of times in the week recently). Many businesses are/will soon be on there knees. I know of at least three independent bars/restaurants that have already closed and that’s with furlough scheme in place.

If guidelines are followed and workplaces are safe why shouldn’t employers ask staff to return? Even if it’s on a rota of 50% in one week and 50% the next to allow for social distancing/minimise risk further.

If employers want their staff to WFH, then again, that’s fine, but let’s not make this about the risks attached to Covid for most people.

I’ve put my view forward backed up by facts surrounding the limited risks involved for a majority of the working population. If people want to stay at home still that’s their prerogative but I for one, will try to live my life as best/normally as I can (that’s nothing to do with towing the Tory line, that’s just how I view life)

The thing that would give people the confidence to 'get back to normal' would be if the government showed any genuine intention of getting this virus under control. Until then, forget it. Trying another blame the people emotional blackmail about businesses going to the wall is just abhorrent.

They tried the 'shield the vulnerable but every body else crack on' in early March, look at what an utter disaster that was. I have no confidence a single lesson has been learnt from then.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Nothing to do with following anyone’s line Fernando. Unfortunately, that’s the stock response to anyone who doesn’t agree with peoples arguments on here.

I’m not saying everyone needs to go back into work, in actual fact I think one of the few benefits of this whole shitstorm will be more people WFH which is better for the environment and people’s work/life balance. However, there is no need for a vast majority of the population to be WFH all the time. Cities are currently ghost towns as I’d imagine only 5-10% are going in (I’ve been into Birmingham a couple of times in the week recently). Many businesses are/will soon be on there knees. I know of at least three independent bars/restaurants that have already closed and that’s with furlough scheme in place.

If guidelines are followed and workplaces are safe why shouldn’t employers ask staff to return? Even if it’s on a rota of 50% in one week and 50% the next to allow for social distancing/minimise risk further.

If employers want their staff to WFH, then again, that’s fine, but let’s not make this about the risks attached to Covid for most people.

I’ve put my view forward backed up by facts surrounding the limited risks involved for a majority of the working population. If people want to stay at home still that’s their prerogative but I for one, will try to live my life as best/normally as I can (that’s nothing to do with towing the Tory line, that’s just how I view life)

There is also proven now to be no need for people to travel, waste time and energy they don't need to to get somewhere they don't really need to be. To prop up other businesses.

How about we rethink things. We have a shortage of homes. If we don't need as much office/retail space we can build more places to live in their place. If we build high quality apartment blocks lower floors can serve the residents of the block along with passing local trade. Delivery sector could be expanded (which would then take over the commuter traffic).

Of course that can't be done overnight but neither could the move from factories and turning them into business/retail parks. But it happened. Now we need to see it again with a transition from office to residential. Opportunities for many construction jobs and jobs involving upkeep long term. It would be an absolutely disaster to just go back to how it was before.

Don't just look at the costs, look at the opportunities.

 

[CCFCSteve]

There is also proven now to be no need for people to travel, waste time and energy they don't need to to get somewhere they don't really need to be. To prop up other businesses.

How about we rethink things. We have a shortage of homes. If we don't need as much office/retail space we can build more places to live in their place. If we build high quality apartment blocks lower floors can serve the residents of the block along with passing local trade. Delivery sector could be expanded (which would then take over the commuter traffic).

Of course that can't be done overnight but neither could the move from factories and turning them into business/retail parks. But it happened. Now we need to see it again with a transition from office to residential. Opportunities for many construction jobs and jobs involving upkeep long term. It would be an absolutely disaster to just go back to how it was before.

Don't just look at the costs, look at the opportunities.

Cant disagree with most of that SBD. As I said earlier a lot of businesses will already be looking to change their working practices but as I also said it can’t happen overnight without it negatively impacting hundreds of thousands or more.

There will definitely be loads of office conversions as businesses likely to downsize/reduce office space, was discussing that with my mate a few weeks back.

ps the costs are huge numbers of people’s livelihoods in the short/medium term

 

[wingy]

Do we see any upgrade to universal credit on the horizon?

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Cant disagree with most of that SBD. As I said earlier a lot of businesses will already be looking to change their working practices but as I also said it can’t happen overnight without it negatively impacting hundreds of thousands or more.

There will definitely be loads of office conversions as businesses likely to downsize/reduce office space, was discussing that with my mate a few weeks back.

ps the costs are huge numbers of people’s livelihoods in the short/medium term

It would result in quite a significant effect on people short/mid term but we can manage that over a period of time to minimise it as much as possible or stick our head in the sand and continue how it was before until companies decide to do it themselves and it all happens at once making it much worse overall.

 

[wingy]

Self isolation back for those returning from Spain as of 12 Tonight.
Had a leaflet through the door today pushing all sorts of conspiracy theories .
Not.sure where it came from or it's purpose as all that stuff is available on the net.
Can Only think it must be to maybe reach the old and vulnerable.

 

[pipkin73]

It's going to destroy us, we have only just opened back up. We are still clear apart from those refugees arriving by boat and they are being stopped before they land (loads of helicopters checking everyday for them). It mainly Madrid and Barcelona, we are thousands of miles away. I just give in!!!

 

[dutchman]

From what I saw all staff were wearing masks and 95% of the public

In the Holyhead Road store tonight face coverings for staff ranged from full face visors to none at all.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Do we see any upgrade to universal credit on the horizon?

We need UBI, forget UC

 

[fernandopartridge]

Self isolation back for those returning from Spain as of 12 Tonight.
Had a leaflet through the door today pushing all sorts of conspiracy theories .
Not.sure where it came from or it's purpose as all that stuff is available on the net.
Can Only think it must be to maybe reach the old and vulnerable.

UK has had nearly 800 daily infections, Spain nearly 1000, it seems a bit rich. The cynic in me thinks it's an economic measure not a health one

 

[pipkin73]

UK has had nearly 800 daily infections, Spain nearly 1000, it seems a bit rich. The cynic in me thinks it's an economic measure not a health one

Like i said mate, we have only just opened back up and if they keep Gran Canaria on that list it will destory us. Loads of places been refurbished during the close in season (hotels, restaurants and bars), and if no tourists we will just all be broke. I might as well fly back home tomorrow and get it done and dusted with. Not much chance of a job from what i read and back on the painkillers (thanks Boris). We are safe, we are not effin Madrid or Barcelona (person i know just went to Madrid for a week and came back after 3 days) as NO RESTRICTIONS IN PUBS, NO ONE WEARING MASKS he said it was like nothing had ever happened. If they want to live like that fine but don't make us pay for it thousands of mile away on another island who have obeyed the rules and got the virus levels down to almost nil.

 

[pipkin73]

Wish i could put Boris in chains and make him listen to the average working person, everytime he comes out with shit electrocute him (only a small mild shock but rising). From my point of view living abroad between this and brexit he could have 4 million brits returning back, is he and his government ready for that, to house us, welfare and more NHS strain? He needs to look at the bigger picture on all of this. I know 4 million people arriving back is only the size of half of London BUT it's the size of Birmingham, Liverpool, Nottingham & Sheffield plus lods of room left for the outskirts. He can't just ignore europe, to many of us live there and he can't afford us back Population of Cities in United Kingdom (2020)

 

[Crazy daisy]

Like i said mate, we have only just opened back up and if they keep Gran Canaria on that list it will destory us. Loads of places been refurbished during the close in season (hotels, restaurants and bars), and if no tourists we will just all be broke. I might as well fly back home tomorrow and get it done and dusted with. Not much chance of a job from what i read and back on the painkillers (thanks Boris). We are safe, we are not effin Madrid or Barcelona (person i know just went to Madrid for a week and came back after 3 days) as NO RESTRICTIONS IN PUBS, NO ONE WEARING MASKS he said it was like nothing had ever happened. If they want to live like that fine but don't make us pay for it thousands of mile away on another island who have obeyed the rules and got the virus levels down to almost nil.

I'm currently in Barcelona and nobody is allowed in bars. You get served outside and masks are mandatory even outside.

 

[pipkin73]

I'm currently in Barcelona and nobody is allowed in bars. You get served outside and masks are mandatory even outside.

Brilliant, atl east they are trying, like i said the person i know off went to Madrid. The reason i mention Barcelona is it's up their with Madid on new cases.

 

[skybluetony176]

Seems to me that this is just a cynical attempt to look tough after the horse has bolted. When 1000+ people were dying a day in Spain there was no control and no quarantine, now they’ve got a couple of hundred more cases, that’s cases not deaths, a day than us it’s time to say you have to self isolate when you return. Load of bollocks.

 

[chiefdave]

Self isolation back for those returning from Spain as of 12 Tonight.
Had a leaflet through the door today pushing all sorts of conspiracy theories .
Not.sure where it came from or it's purpose as all that stuff is available on the net.
Can Only think it must be to maybe reach the old and vulnerable.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Seems to me that this is just a cynical attempt to look tough after the horse has bolted. When 1000+ people were dying a day in Spain there was no control and no quarantine, now they’ve got a couple of hundred more cases, that’s cases not deaths, a day than us it’s time to say you have to self isolate when you return. Load of bollocks.

I think it's an economic thing, make it difficult to go abroad on holiday so money is spent here. Tbh the govt are right, foreign holidays could be put on the back burner for a year.

 

[David O'Day]

Surely they'll exempt the canary islands?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

 

[pipkin73]

I think it's an economic thing, make it difficult to go abroad on holiday so money is spent here. Tbh the govt are right, foreign holidays could be put on the back burner for a year.

Not if you want to come next year mate, or you can come have the beach but nothing else as all bust. Most bar owners in Spain and here including staff (tourist areas only) are UK and Irish based so 1 year with no income will crash it all. Spoke to loads of owners and they are now on a wing and prayer.

 

[pipkin73]

Surely they'll exempt the canary islands?

Sent from my SM-G975F using Tapatalk

They were exempt but 20 mins later they included us and said they will review us. As FP said, it has to be polititcal no other reason i can think of.

 

[dutchman]

But it's okay for Nichola Sturgeon to do the exact same thing becuase she's a 'good european'.

Nicola Sturgeon announces Scots tourists returning from Spain must quarantine

Spain had only recently been placed on a 'safe list' of countries but a flare up of virus cases has led to the Scottish Government reimposing strict measures.

www.dailyrecord.co.uk

 

[Sick Boy]

I do have a certain sympathy with the argument that we've effectively been put under house arrest for a few months, and that's a dangerous precedent to give the state so much control.

That being said, masks are nothing compared to everything else that's happened, so it seems a very strange thing to get hung up on! Sure, they're uncomfortable and a bit awkward, but I'll get used to it.

Been wearing one on a daily basis for a couple of months now, only problem is they’re not much fun in 35c heat.

 

[Macca]

The pretence of a strategy is laughable now. It’s just fingers crossed and hope for the best out there. Then get tough on things like returning from the Canary Islands that will make no odds

 

[wingy]

Is there confusion between this new dictat and that issued by the FO?

 

[skybluetony176]

Don’t worry, Raab has been doing the rounds to clear up any confusion

And basically confirmed that it’s just a cynical stab at looking tough. They’ll be playing the “we made people quarantine” card for months if not years to come when being criticised for their response.

 

[wingy]

No insurance cover due to FO advice .

 

[wingy]

'Major' breakthrough in Covid-19 drug makes UK professors millionaires

Synairgen’s share price rises 540% on morning of news of successful drugs trial

www.theguardian.com

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

UK has had nearly 800 daily infections, Spain nearly 1000, it seems a bit rich. The cynic in me thinks it's an economic measure not a health one

Are you suggesting it's another use of 'nudge theory' by the govt to encourage people to stay at home and thus spend the money in the UK economy? EDIT: Just seen your later post.

Does anyone know which countries have us on a quarantine/banned list? Although we're not the worst anymore I definitely think we're high enough for a number of countries to consider us a risk of increasing infections.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Are you suggesting it's another use of 'nudge theory' by the govt to encourage people to stay at home and thus spend the money in the UK economy?

Does anyone know which countries have us on a quarantine/banned list? Although we're not the worst anymore I definitely think we're high enough for a number of countries to consider us a risk of increasing infections.

None of the countries we’ve partnered with

 

[CCFCSteve]

I know I’ll get called a Tory for saying this (standard !) but some of the nonsense on here is getting crazy. Yes, we possibly should’ve stopped flights earlier in the outbreak (although the scientific advisors said their was no point) and people, not unreasonably, complained at the time. We temporarily stop the Spain air bridge and ask people to quarantine when they return and the same people still complain ?!

The same people who are worried about going back to the office because of the risk appear to be arguing against something to try to minimise the spread/risk ?!

Loads of conspiracy theories that don’t make any sense (if we wanted people to holiday here surely we wouldn’t have agreed the air bridges to start with ?!)

There’s been fuck ups by the government but why pick at every single decision being made, especially when they contradict other issues you might have ?!

Just try to keep some perspective in this shitstorm. Some decisions will be right, some wrong. We’re all in the same boat (apart from Trump who’s on another planet)


Ps I think Spain had 2.6k confirmed cases on Thursday and 2.2k Friday. We’re around 700-800 and we appear to doing more/targeted testing. Several EU countries are also considering closing their borders to Spain.

 

[shmmeee]

It’s up to your employer, if that’s the government then it’s their business. If they’re not then it’s nothing to do with them

Exactly. Really annoys me to see Johnson saying I need to go back to that antiquated way of working against mine and my employers best interests just to keep a few sandwich shops in business.

Just like business took the initiative ahead of government on lockdown, they know best for return as well. The governments job is to say in their opinion whether it’s safe or not and put in guidance for those that want to go back to the old way, not to tell peoplehow to run their business.

 

[Ian1779]

I know I’ll get called a Tory for saying this (standard !) but some of the nonsense on here is getting crazy. Yes, we possibly should’ve stopped flights earlier in the outbreak (although the scientific advisors said their was no point) and people, not unreasonably, complained at the time. We temporarily stop the Spain air bridge and ask people to quarantine when they return and the same people still complain ?!

The same people who are worried about going back to the office because of the risk appear to be arguing against something to try to minimise the spread/risk ?!

Loads of conspiracy theories that don’t make any sense (if we wanted people to holiday here surely we wouldn’t have agreed the air bridges to start with ?!)

There’s been fuck ups by the government but why pick at every single decision being made, especially when they contradict other issues you might have ?!

Just try to keep some perspective in this shitstorm. Some decisions will be right, some wrong. We’re all in the same boat (apart from Trump who’s on another planet)


Ps I think Spain had 2.6k confirmed cases on Thursday and 2.2k Friday. We’re around 700-800 and we appear to doing more/targeted testing. Several EU countries are also considering closing their borders to Spain.

People are worried because we should have had travel restrictions in place since March. Until June people were free to wander into the UK, unchecked and untested. There’s no ‘possibly should have done something sooner’ - it should have happened from Day 1 - any fool could have told you that. Putting in quarantine now for Spain is probably right if they feel there is a risk of it causing a rise in infections, but people will naturally see the lack of any strategy from the government up to now and ask questions.

People are worried as there is a clear higher risk in being in an enclosed space for any length of time. If there is the capacity to continue to work from home why even chance it? There is simply no sense to it at all. The economic argument is flawed, but still rolled out time and again.

You very much seem to play down the incompetence of a government that have allowed tens of thousands of unnecessary deaths due to their shambolic handling. In any normal functioning country that should be enough to bring down a PM, even a government; all that will happen here is that his cheerleaders will champion a great success, parroted by the media, and the opposition will do nothing.

We’re not in the same boat as other countries, scores of them have handled this pandemic with decisive decision making and decisive leadership.

This is how well we have done...