Coronavirus Thread (Off Topic, Politics) (18 Viewers)

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Fucking hell, if it's not Russian drug companies smearing Pfizer and AZ, it's Sky News Australia having to take down misleading claims on YouTube.

What is wrong with people?

It’s crazy mate. If people don’t want to take it, it’s stupid but ultimately their call, to spread bullshit kills others.

The misinformation spread about AZ in particular has been nothing short of disgusting, that’s not even from nut jobs though, but from political leaders protecting their own arses and their pharma companies (macron being the worst but questions over US and some other European nations)….which is way worse in my book.

I was reading recently that some African countries/people are even reticent to take free AZ doses, seeing it as inferior and Europe’s leftovers. I mean, WTF ?!!
 
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Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
It’s crazy mate. If people don’t want to take it, it’s stupid but ultimately their call, to spread bullshit kills others.

The misinformation spread about AZ in particular has been nothing short of disgusting, that’s not even from nut jobs though, but from political leaders protecting their own arses and their pharma companies (macron being the worst but questions over US and some other European nations)….which is way worse in my book.

I was reading recently that some African countries/people are even reticent to take free AZ doses, seeing it as inferior and Europe’s leftovers. I mean, WTF ?!!

This is what happens when charisma or simply sounding convincing matters more than being right.
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
I was reading recently that some African countries/people are even reticent to take free AZ doses, seeing it as inferior and Europe’s leftovers. I mean, WTF ?!!
I can see why they might think that, tbf. Doesn't seem to work as well as Pfizer, even the country it originated in (us) doesn't give it to many age groups...

From an outside perspective, it might well look you're being palmed off with it.

(To be clear, we're in a world where something is better than nothing, and it seems to work... well enough, as long as enough people take the thing! But that's the danger of transparency too about things like the clotting. Sometimes, a bit of deception and concealment might be a good thing(!))
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I didn't even know there was that thought! Is that because we've opened up a lot, so therefore people are confusing increased transmission when countries open up, with vaccination?

Seen a few people claim because you can still catch it there will be more variants with opening up.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
I can see why they might think that, tbf. Doesn't seem to work as well as Pfizer, even the country it originated in (us) doesn't give it to many age groups...

From an outside perspective, it might well look you're being palmed off with it.

(To be clear, we're in a world where something is better than nothing, and it seems to work... well enough, as long as enough people take the thing! But that's the danger of transparency too about things like the clotting. Sometimes, a bit of deception and concealment might be a good thing(!))

I agree, you’re right mate. They are being palmed off on them….by some countries who have refused to use them and pretty much slandered them, which is why the reticence.

It appears that Pfizer might well work better against delta variant but try rolling that out quickly with the refrigeration requirements across Africa. Also, the better than nothing is 92% protection against hospitalisation and severe illness. That’s all people need to know. From memory we have given AZ to most of over 40s (which I think is 25m+).
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
Seen a few people claim because you can still catch it there will be more variants with opening up.
The argument about more variants was always we were opening up quicker than people were being vaccinated though, wasn't it? And that it was too soon to dispense with everything until more had been vaccinated?

Vaccination suppresses transmission, after all - transmission's only been relatively low because everybody's been avoiding one another!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
The argument about more variants was always we were opening up quicker than people were being vaccinated though, wasn't it? And that it was too soon to dispense with everything until more had been vaccinated?

Vaccination suppresses transmission, after all - transmission's only been relatively low because everybody's been avoiding one another!

I say a few people. They’re mostly anti vax types but the ones that try and be more reasonable. Had some guy on Twitter who claimed to work in drug delivery tell me this, he also said I’m part of a phase three trial so clearly had no idea what he’s on about.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
It’s crazy mate. If people don’t want to take it, it’s stupid but ultimately their call, to spread bullshit kills others.

The misinformation spread about AZ in particular has been nothing short of disgusting, that’s not even from nut jobs though, but from political leaders protecting their own arses and their pharma companies (macron being the worst but questions over US and some other European nations)….which is way worse in my book.

I was reading recently that some African countries/people are even reticent to take free AZ doses, seeing it as inferior and Europe’s leftovers. I mean, WTF ?!!
This all may be so but the evidence is there that AZ induces lower antibody levels in the aged population.
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
It’s crazy mate. If people don’t want to take it, it’s stupid but ultimately their call, to spread bullshit kills others.

The misinformation spread about AZ in particular has been nothing short of disgusting, that’s not even from nut jobs though, but from political leaders protecting their own arses and their pharma companies (macron being the worst but questions over US and some other European nations)….which is way worse in my book.

I was reading recently that some African countries/people are even reticent to take free AZ doses, seeing it as inferior and Europe’s leftovers. I mean, WTF ?!!
How is Macron worse than the USA that hasn’t even approved it but hoarded vaccines?
 
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Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
How's the family Pete?
First time really affected other than helping as an nhs volunteer.

Both daughters positive. 10 days isolation for the rest of us to Sunday initially and then to Wednesday after second positive test. Hoping the rules will change about isolation on Monday for household close contacts as well as other close contacts

So missed a weeks singing holiday and won’t get to Devon till maybe later and potentially at all

Sister and nephew poorly now and sister has had both vaccines.

Mum and other sister isolating so a bit shit really

Good friend just died of cancer too so bit meh. Thanks for asking
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
First time really affected other than helping as an nhs volunteer.

Both daughters positive. 10 days isolation for the rest of us to Sunday initially and then to Wednesday after second positive test. Hoping the rules will change about isolation on Monday for household close contacts as well as other close contacts

So missed a weeks singing holiday and won’t get to Devon till maybe later and potentially at all

Sister and nephew poorly now and sister has had both vaccines.

Mum and other sister isolating so a bit shit really

Good friend just died of cancer too so bit meh. Thanks for asking

Sorry to hear it mate, all my best to them. Take it your sister isn’t too poorly?
 

Dog

Well-Known Member
How is Macron worse than the USA that hasn’t even approved it but hoarded vaccines?
Depends which way you look at it.

It is OK if you don't take the vaccination. But if you go telling everyone that the vaccinations don't work or one of the crackpot reasons for it you are an idiot at best. But if you are a leader that said it doesn't work and will have cost lives by people not taking the vaccination because of what he said it isn't as bad as someone who hasn't approved the AZ because of what has been said about it?
 

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
Depends which way you look at it.

It is OK if you don't take the vaccination. But if you go telling everyone that the vaccinations don't work or one of the crackpot reasons for it you are an idiot at best. But if you are a leader that said it doesn't work and will have cost lives by people not taking the vaccination because of what he said it isn't as bad as someone who hasn't approved the AZ because of what has been said about it?
Well yes because they’ve hoarded vaccines that could have been used by other countries and saved lives.
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Well yes because they’ve hoarded vaccines that could have been used by other countries and saved lives.

As Dog says though there’s one thing hoarding, which appears to have happened in US and Europe, there’s another claiming a vaccine is quasi effective/may not work
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
This all may be so but the evidence is there that AZ induces lower antibody levels in the aged population.

I’ve said Pfizer might well be more effective but ultimately AZ will probably still save hundreds of thousands of lives worldwide. People are rejecting it when it’s prevents severe illness/death. If you’ve got loads of alternatives, great, take your pick, if you haven’t, just have it
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
How is not approving it any better?

It isn’t much, an indirect ‘we’re not signing it off yet but we’ve got loads of Pfizer so not an issue’ or a direct ‘its not very good/doesnt work’...take your pick. I said in original post there’s questions over US conduct, macrons comments were more damaging in my view though
 
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COV

Well-Known Member
As Dog says though there’s one thing hoarding, which appears to have happened in US and Europe, there’s another claiming a vaccine is quasi effective/may not work

Struggling to see how denying people access to the vaccine isn’t worse than people talking crap about the vaccine
 

COV

Well-Known Member
It isn’t much, an indirect ‘we’re not signing it off yet but we’ve got loads of Pfizer so not an issue’ or a direct ‘its not very good/doesnt work’...take your pick. I said in original post there’s questions over US conduct, macrons comments were more damaging in my view though

Is macron denying others access to the vaccine then?
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Is macron denying others access to the vaccine then?

His words would’ve put people off taking it. I’ve seen it first hand in vaccine centres with people (mainly European) refusing the AZ vaccine, when that was all that was on offer. To say it was upsetting is an understatement

I presume both US and Europe have a substantial amount of unused AZ vaccines.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Is macron denying others access to the vaccine then?

No he and the German press said it was rubbish and would more than likely mean you may as well inject yourself with water

If Johnson had said that the Pfizer vaccine was a rubbish thing avoid it as you cannot than have a real vaccine what would you do?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Another huge issue had already rocked public confidence. On 25 January, a German-language business newspaper, Handelsblatt, ran a front-page story. “AstraZeneca vaccine apparently hardly effective in seniors,” said the headline. Efficacy in the over-65s, the age group most at risk of dying from Covid, was only 8%, the article claimed..

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Handelsblatt’s sources were not in the German government. Its journalists had been speaking to regulators and vaccine advisers. The figure turned out to be inaccurate – and taken out of context.

There were too few elderly people in the early trials, because the Oxford academics did not want to expose them to risks. And if you have too few people in a trial, the results you get are not reliable. There was simply not enough evidence to prove how well the vaccine worked in the over-65s.

Handelsblatt acknowledged that there was too little data, but that was lost in the ensuing row.

Within days, Stiko, Germany’s vaccination advisory panel, said it would not recommend the vaccine for the over-65s because of the lack of evidence that it worked for them. In France, President Macron said the jab was “quasi-ineffective” in the over-65s.

Within weeks, Macron was forced to say publicly that he would have the jab himself – and by early March it had been approved by France for the over-65s. But the damage had been done.

Bell says you can get only limited data from vaccine trials – you have to see what happens “in the real world. The studies are different, the clinical trial populations are different, the type of virus that people are being exposed to is different. The outcomes are all different”.

“And yet throughout Europe we had lots of these little so-called expert committees saying: ‘Oh God, you can’t use it in the over-50s, oh God, you can’t use it in the under-50s. You can’t use it at all. Well, maybe you could use it if you’re upside down, drinking a milkshake.’ It was unbelievable.”

Real-world data eventually proved that the vaccine worked very well in older people. But it also revealed a serious problem in a tiny minority of younger people. On 7 March, Austria suspended the use of a batch of the vaccine aftera woman of 49 died and another aged 35 became seriously ill with blood disorders shortly after inoculation.

As Covid cases continued to surge,the European Medicines Agency (EMA) said the benefits outweighed the risks, but launched an investigation.

Prof Marie Scully’s first case was admitted to University College hospital, London, in the UK on the weekend of 6-7 March. A young, healthy woman in her 30s had blood clots on the brain and low platelets. “It was most unusual,” said Scully, a consultant haematologist. “We use vaccines all our life. Why would the AZ vaccine suddenly cause this situation?”

But it did, the EMA and MHRA eventually ruled, albeit in only four in a million cases. It was enough for many European countries to restrict the vaccine’s use.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
No he and the German press said it was rubbish and would more than likely mean you may as well inject yourself with water

If Johnson had said that the Pfizer vaccine was a rubbish thing avoid it as you cannot than have a real vaccine what would you do?
Personally I’d assume it’s rubbish for the simple fact it’s Boris saying it.
 

COV

Well-Known Member
No he and the German press said it was rubbish and would more than likely mean you may as well inject yourself with water

If Johnson had said that the Pfizer vaccine was a rubbish thing avoid it as you cannot than have a real vaccine what would you do?

bad example, I along with so many others automatically assume that anything Johnson says is bullshit.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
bad example, I along with so many others automatically assume that anything Johnson says is bullshit.

Was Macron talking bullshit?
 

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