Coventry City fans to discuss possibility of supporter-led takeover (3 Viewers)

[wince]

Not sure what that proves? I didn't say it was the theme of the night, I said that it is the way it is going to go.

Try again.

LOL

 

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[Nick]

If the trust are listening to the people they had along to the meeting as experts then they need to greatly distance themselves from protests and boycott (anyone else notice Moz get JHW and SBT mixed up at the end, doesn't give a big impression of separation). Need to work on repairing the relationship with Fisher and Sepalla so that civil talks can be held, even if just an informal chat. And need to work out what could be a viable exit strategy for SISU that the Trust has a realistic chance of being able to achieve.

To the supporters they need to put forward a viable plan for running the club should fan ownership be obtaining. I'm not talking cashflow forecasts and every little detail, just a general overview of how the major obstacles will be overcome. We don't want to end up in a position where fans are chucking a grand in thinking we'll be in the PL in 3 or 4 years. It has to be made very clear how fan ownership will work and what is possible. And of course is it a stopping point to getting a new owner.

Thing is though, you listen to Jan pushing it and he talks about the Championship and then the Premier League but then you listen to the speakers and they pretty much rule out the Championship, never mind the Premier League because of the money there. The scenarios they have explained pretty much say you are limited, so the only difference there is going to be is communication with the fans which can only go so far (although it would be very welcome). Players will still need to be sold to balance the books.

 

[chiefdave]

If you look on SD at the clubs majority fan owned in the FL its AFC Wimbledon, Exeter City and Wycombe Wanderers. No disrespect to any of them as its obviously a tough thing to pull off but I don't think that's the level our fans are thinking off when they talk about fan ownership. I think they're looking at Swansea's 20% and thinking we'll be like them.

 

[Nick]

http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/p04nw4hd

2 hours 11 in.

David Johnson going on about a boycott as a scenario as the fans buying the club because they can pick the club up via administration.

Pretty much the same thing as insinuated tonight.

 

[Ian1779]

So is there an actual plan or is it more bluster, back slapping and Facebook likes??

 

[Otis]

Thing is though, you listen to Jan pushing it and he talks about the Championship and then the Premier League but then you listen to the speakers and they pretty much rule out the Championship, never mind the Premier League because of the money there. The scenarios they have explained pretty much say you are limited, so the only difference there is going to be is communication with the fans which can only go so far (although it would be very welcome). Players will still need to be sold to balance the books.

Think most of us are quite happy with that.

Sell a player for £1.5m, but reinvest say half a million of that back into recruitment. That's the way to go.

It's what most clubs do. Pretty much every football club is a selling club. You have to have a degree of ambition to go with it though.

Sell by all means, but reinvest a percentage on a player that causes as little detriment to the playing side as possible.

 

[Nick]

Think most of us are quite happy with that.

Sell a player for £1.5m, but reinvest say half a million of that back into recruitment. That's the way to go.

It's what most clubs do. Pretty much every football club is a selling club. You have to have a degree of ambition to go with it though.

Sell by all means, but reinvest a percentage on a player that is as little detriment to the playing side as possible.

The supporters direct guy said somebody was a troll because he wasn't happy with a fan owned club selling players. He could have pretty much read from something Tim Fisher would have written when talking about break even and stability (but without the crystal clearness).

I can understand break even, I can also see how if it was a fan the communication about break even would be much better as I've said is Fisher's issue.

 

[chiefdave]

For me now I'd like to see something from the Trust to outline the major scenarios. Buying from SISU, buying from admin and liquidation. What is required for each and what as supporters we could expect to be the outcome.

There's no way the fans are buying off SISU without some serious investment from wealthy fans so we need to know if they exist and are prepared to basically gift their money or are we just waiting for SISU to put us into administration at some point down the line.

If the clubs not going into admin you have to give SISU an exit strategy. For example Ryton was said to be worth £8m for housing wasn't it. You could say to SISU give us the club and you keep Ryton. Ask the council for a loan to build training facilities to complement those at Warwick Uni, so we'd basically own the same as we do now but also have use of their facilities for the academy. Then pressure can be put on Wasps to give us a better deal as we are potentially fan owned.

Something like that and you might get SISU's interest.

 

[chiefdave]

Sell a player for £1.5m, but reinvest say half a million of that back into recruitment. That's the way to go.

Think it would be a hard sell. Look at the response when Maddison was sold. That was to cover the cost of keeping the club going as SISU had to put in an emergency loan to cover cash flow.

 

[sw88]

Good lad, will try and load it up shortly!


Can Sw88 do updates throughout in case I need to move away from Computer?

Sorry Nick. I was staging a boycott

And forget about it

And would have only followed on Twitter had I followed it at all.

 

[wince]

The supporters direct guy said somebody was a troll because he wasn't happy with a fan owned club selling players. He could have pretty much read from something Tim Fisher would have written when talking about break even and stability (but without the crystal clearness).

I can understand break even, I can also see how if it was a fan the communication about break even would be much better as I've said is Fisher's issue.

Break even 11000 fans,crowds of 11000 plus , of sorry miscalculated meant 13000 LOL

 

[I was eleven in 87]

You don't have to be on twitter to read it, just look at CJ Joiner (@CJ_covblaze) on Twitter

Yeah I managed to watch it in the end, thanks.

 

[clint van damme]

Tony are you watching the stream? I don't see how you can be watching and not think a boycott is being pushed.

We've had the Palace bloke in the CT saying the fans need to turn up and the Pompey chap and Supporters Direct tonight. The same advise is coming from everyone and the various supporters organisations and fans are ignoring it.

I was there Dave, admin wasn't been pushed by board reps on the stage and the boycott talk was being driven from the floor. One of the most impassioned speakers was my mates brother and he's not a member of the trust.
What did come out is that the trust need to be ready if the club did go into admin as you need to be able to move fast, Pompey had the advantage of an unusually long admin period which helped their trust but most potential buyers don't get that luxury.

One thing that the SD and the Pompey guy kept stipulating was the need for fan unity, something we all need to bear in mind.

 

[Nick]

For me now I'd like to see something from the Trust to outline the major scenarios. Buying from SISU, buying from admin and liquidation. What is required for each and what as supporters we could expect to be the outcome.

There's no way the fans are buying off SISU without some serious investment from wealthy fans so we need to know if they exist and are prepared to basically gift their money or are we just waiting for SISU to put us into administration at some point down the line.

If the clubs not going into admin you have to give SISU an exit strategy. For example Ryton was said to be worth £8m for housing wasn't it. You could say to SISU give us the club and you keep Ryton. Ask the council for a loan to build training facilities to complement those at Warwick Uni, so we'd basically own the same as we do now but also have use of their facilities for the academy. Then pressure can be put on Wasps to give us a better deal as we are potentially fan owned.

Something like that and you might get SISU's interest.

I think also is to have 1 voice as a spokesperson. You have David Johnson saying 1 thing, Jan saying about the Premier League, statements on the website etc. It needs some PR and for things to go through others before statements are given out.

 

[Nick]

I was there Dave, admin wasn't been pushed by board reps on the stage and the boycott talk was being driven from the floor. One of the most impassioned speakers was my mates brother and he's not a member of the trust.
What did come out is that the trust need to be ready if the club did go into admin as you need to be able to move fast, Pompey had the advantage of an unusually long admin period which helped their trust but most potential buyers don't get that luxury.

One thing that the SD and the Pompey guy kept stipulating was the need for fan unity, something we all need to bear in mind.

The same thing has been said twice in a day about a boycott and picking up the club from admin.

It's a dangerous path to go down.

 

[clint van damme]

For me now I'd like to see something from the Trust to outline the major scenarios. Buying from SISU, buying from admin and liquidation. What is required for each and what as supporters we could expect to be the outcome.

There's no way the fans are buying off SISU without some serious investment from wealthy fans so we need to know if they exist and are prepared to basically gift their money or are we just waiting for SISU to put us into administration at some point down the line.

If the clubs not going into admin you have to give SISU an exit strategy. For example Ryton was said to be worth £8m for housing wasn't it. You could say to SISU give us the club and you keep Ryton. Ask the council for a loan to build training facilities to complement those at Warwick Uni, so we'd basically own the same as we do now but also have use of their facilities for the academy. Then pressure can be put on Wasps to give us a better deal as we are potentially fan owned.

Something like that and you might get SISU's interest.

totally agree, it sounds like they've done some work on some of those scenarios and I'd like to see it in the public domain, (where possible), rather than giving us little hints a tip bits. It smacks a bit of we know something you don't.

 

[Otis]

Think it would be a hard sell. Look at the response when Maddison was sold. That was to cover the cost of keeping the club going as SISU had to put in an emergency loan to cover cash flow.

But we have always sold players and fans have always moaned.

Willie Carr, Mortimer, Wallace, Dublin, Keane, Westwood, Dann and Fox, Maddison etc. etc. etc.

We have always sold our best players and fans have always moaned.

 

[I was eleven in 87]

For me now I'd like to see something from the Trust to outline the major scenarios. Buying from SISU, buying from admin and liquidation. What is required for each and what as supporters we could expect to be the outcome.

There's no way the fans are buying off SISU without some serious investment from wealthy fans so we need to know if they exist and are prepared to basically gift their money or are we just waiting for SISU to put us into administration at some point down the line.

If the clubs not going into admin you have to give SISU an exit strategy. For example Ryton was said to be worth £8m for housing wasn't it. You could say to SISU give us the club and you keep Ryton. Ask the council for a loan to build training facilities to complement those at Warwick Uni, so we'd basically own the same as we do now but also have use of their facilities for the academy. Then pressure can be put on Wasps to give us a better deal as we are potentially fan owned.

Something like that and you might get SISU's interest.

Good idea!!

 

[clint van damme]

So is there an actual plan or is it more bluster, back slapping and Facebook likes??

The thing that became clear listening to the Pompey guy is the need for fan unity.
Think we all need to bear this in mind.
It sounds like the trust have been doing quite a bit of work in the background but they need to make it a bit more public, all a bit cliquey.

 

[clint van damme]

The same thing has been said twice in a day about a boycott and picking up the club from admin.

It's a dangerous path to go down.

I'm not sure how you got that as the thrust of the evening Nick, it wasn't the case.
I'm not saying it wasn't mentioned but I think all scenarios are being considered.

The guy from SD was trying to encourage talking to sisu but the trust reckon they just don't want to know, if so it makes negotiation very difficult.

 

[I was eleven in 87]

I'm not sure how you got that as the thrust of the evening Nick, it wasn't the case.
I'm not saying it wasn't mentioned but I think all scenarios are being considered.

The guy from SD was trying to encourage talking to sisu but the trust reckon they just don't want to know, if so it makes negotiation very difficult.

If the Trust say SISU won't engage with them, how about you Nick and a small number of other prominent posters on here get together and try and get a meeting with SISU to discuss viable exit strategies and the question of whether they will ever entertain selling?

 

[Nick]

I'm not sure how you got that as the thrust of the evening Nick, it wasn't the case.
I'm not saying it wasn't mentioned but I think all scenarios are being considered.

The guy from SD was trying to encourage talking to sisu but the trust reckon they just don't want to know, if so it makes negotiation very difficult.

I haven't said it was the Thrust of the evening. I said I can see that is the way it is going to go (my opinion). Especially as the same thing has been said more than once now.

Thing is, the trust keep going to the telegraph saying they need to be spoken to and then Moz says he spoke to Fisher on Saturday. Why keep going to the Telegraph to make statements and not just ask him on the phone?

The SD guy was trying to say to keep anything that could be seen as unprofessional seperate from the trust, yet people from the trust sat there having digs at them. They need to keep the trust professional without all of the un-needed digs no matter how much they hate people.

 

[Nick]

If the Trust say SISU won't engage with them, how about you Nick and a small number of other prominent posters on here get together and try and get a meeting with SISU to discuss viable exit strategies and the question of whether they will ever entertain selling?

Moz was on the phone to Fisher on Saturday, yes he isn't "strictly" SISU but how much of it was discussed with him? Fisher has offered a fans forum that was rejected, take him up on it and at least put things learnt from supports direct to him?

 

[letsallsingtogether]

I'm not sure how you got that as the thrust of the evening Nick, it wasn't the case.
I'm not saying it wasn't mentioned but I think all scenarios are being considered.

The guy from SD was trying to encourage talking to sisu but the trust reckon they just don't want to know, if so it makes negotiation very difficult.

But it suits some people to push one thing that was mensioned and forget the rest.
Most agreed that administration was not a good thing but might be the only way for Sisu leaving.
And as for the trust showing their cards who does that before they show the people they are dealing with it weakens your hand.

 

[clint van damme]

I haven't said it was the Thrust of the evening. I said I can see that is the way it is going to go (my opinion). Especially as the same thing has been said more than once now.

Thing is, the trust keep going to the telegraph saying they need to be spoken to and then Moz says he spoke to Fisher on Saturday. Why keep going to the Telegraph to make statements and not just ask him on the phone?

The SD guy was trying to say to keep anything that could be seen as unprofessional seperate from the trust, yet people from the trust sat there having digs at them. They need to keep the trust professional without all of the un-needed digs no matter how much they hate people.

i don't see it that way but what did become clear is you need a plan for every scenario, Pompey had a team working on forming a phoenix club while they were also looking into buying the club.
But the guy from SD was saying the first thing you need is a willing seller.

 

[I was eleven in 87]

Moz was on the phone to Fisher on Saturday, yes he isn't "strictly" SISU but how much of it was discussed with him? Fisher has offered a fans forum that was rejected, take him up on it and at least put things learnt from supports direct to him?

Yes that's not a bad idea either and let's face it, Fisher is our only tangible conduit to SISU.
If we had a forum and the question of selling was brought up then maybe we might get a definitive answer. Well as 'definitive' as you can get with SISU.

 

[chiefdave]

The guy from SD was trying to encourage talking to sisu but the trust reckon they just don't want to know, if so it makes negotiation very difficult.

Thats the perfect example. Him saying that was followed by 10 mins of others on the stage having a dig at SISU. Not to say its undeserved but we need to think about what the objective is.

The Trust needs to be whiter than white, make sure there's nothing that can come back on them. The Pompey guy said anything to do with boycotts or protests needs to be totally separate. The Trust say they have that with JHW but put their statements on the trust website and have their representative up on stage with them.

The things I took from tonight was support the club, trust have a good relationship with the club, club has a good relationship with council and then we might have a chance. I suspect tomorrow most people will be talking about a boycott.

 

[clint van damme]

But it suits some people to push one thing that was mensioned and forget the rest.
Most agreed that administration was not a good thing but might be the only way for Sisu leaving.
And as for the trust showing their cards who does that before they show the people they are dealing with it weakens your hand.

I agree, but if they want to unite the support and enlighten people to what can be done they are going to have to be a bit more forthcoming, that doesn't mean they have to put everything in the public domain.

 

[chiefdave]

Think is Fisher has said he will attend a Trust event. He's also said that while the club isn't on the market any club is for sale if the right offer comes in. Not sure what people are waiting for him to say, that's as open an invite as you'll get.

 

[Nick]

But it suits some people to push one thing that was mensioned and forget the rest.
Most agreed that administration was not a good thing but might be the only way for Sisu leaving.
And as for the trust showing their cards who does that before they show the people they are dealing with it weakens your hand.

What about the bit where the speaker said you can pretty much forget Championship when it was fan owned?
What about the bit where it was said somebody was a troll because they were unhappy about players being sold to break even at a fan owned club?
What about the bit where the supporters direct guy pretty much echo'd the things Fisher says about needing to be break even?
What about when the SD guy said that the trust need to distance themselves and be professional? (he didn't say they weren't now, but that was confirmed just after by the Trust anyway).
What about the bit where the Pompey guy (I think it was) said that things need to be taken on board from fans even if not agreed with?


Plenty of other bits.

 

[Nick]

I agree, but if they want to unite the support and enlighten people to what can be done they are going to have to be a bit more forthcoming, that doesn't mean they have to put everything in the public domain.

Agree with that, people need something to get behind. Not everybody will just be sold because somebody says SISU out.

 

[I was eleven in 87]

CJ, can the trust re-visit having an open fans forum with Fisher and whoever from SISU/Otium on the panel??

 

[Nick]

Yes that's not a bad idea either and let's face it, Fisher is our only tangible conduit to SISU.
If we had a forum and the question of selling was brought up then maybe we might get a definitive answer. Well as 'definitive' as you can get with SISU.

I doubt you would get one from Fisher, so it would have to be clever questioning and not letting him wriggle out of it or giving him any ammo to get out of it. The moment a fan or somebody says something stupid he would play on it and go to town.

Only have to listen to Jan on the radio earlier to hear him get tied up in knots by a radio presenter, what would Fisher do?

 

[I was eleven in 87]

I doubt you would get one from Fisher, so it would have to be clever questioning and not letting him wriggle out of it or giving him any ammo to get out of it. The moment a fan or somebody says something stupid he would play on it and go to town.

Only have to listen to Jan on the radio earlier to hear him get tied up in knots by a radio presenter, what would Fisher do?

Well I vote for OSB58 asking the question then!!

 

[Nick]

Well I vote for OSB58 asking the question then!!

Think Fisher knows who he is so would be straight out with it before it had started.