Coventry Evening Telegraph. (1 Viewer)

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

From one respect I agree regarding the moral issue of moving clubs, but coming at it from a different point of view the two situations were completely different:

Wasps made it clear a long time before the Ricoh move was made public that they were looking to leave Wycombe, and wanted somewhere they could call a permanent "home". Also, relocating in rugby isn't unusual in recent history, although admittedly distance wise this is the biggest. The way they went about the process was pretty transparent.

Then you look at CCFC, I remember that Friday afternoon when people were taking pictures of removal van's loading up at the Ricoh and emptying the offices, no one had a clue what was going on. Even in the weeks following that it was clear that the club had shipped out without having anywhere to go, for a while all the talk was that we were going to Walsall. Then (since we've been talking of PR) came the complete catastrophe of those forums with Fisher and the accountant Brookfield (?), which only made things 10 times worse. Fisher's arrogance at the situation just riled everyone up even more. They couldn't even answer basic questions about the accounts without being made to sound like complete idiots.

Maybe how the respective moves were handled are a significant factor as to why some people have treated them so differently.

Were they really that transparent though? I seem to remember they always claimed their attention was to move back into London from Adams Park.
Then out of nowhere we hear they are interested in the Ricoh and the deal is done so quickly it was obvious discussions had been ongoing for some time.

 

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[Nick]

Were they really that transparent though? I seem to remember they always claimed their attention was to move back into London from Adams Park.
Then out of nowhere we hear they are interested in the Ricoh and the deal is done so quickly it was obvious discussions had been ongoing for some time.

Interested a couple of years before, before he bought the club...

 

[Nick]

Exactly they could have survived, I just see it mentioned a lot that they moved here to survive or they would have died which isn't true. It was lie to justify the move.

Exactly, and never challenged!

 

[jas365]

Were they really that transparent though? I seem to remember they always claimed their attention was to move back into London from Adams Park.
Then out of nowhere we hear they are interested in the Ricoh and the deal is done so quickly it was obvious discussions had been ongoing for some time.

I think they ruled London out some time before the Ricoh was announced due to cost. I'm not saying talks weren't going on, but in comparison to how CCFC alienated 95% of the fan base, the whole conduct of the two clubs were miles apart. That to me is a reason why a lot of people view the moves differently.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I don't see it that way, it was an either an ambitious expansion or stagnation.

Successful businesses tend to choose the former, some crash & burn by overreaching themselves.

What path did SISU take?

You're right it was an ambitious move by Wasps, made sense from a business sense but you seem to be applauding it as the way forward for SISU to follow which is wrong.

If SISU told us we were buying Wembley for
10 million and we were going to sell it out every week and make tons of money in the process and the ambition was to get into the champions league within 5 years would you support that? I know I wouldn't (completely made up scenario so just ignore the practicality of it and take it to be true)

 

[Captain Dart]

So if they did expand and buy us a stadium miles away it would be backed?

a) The FL won't allow a move more than 8 miles from Coventry city centre. A fact that has been confirmed by Henry Winter (the Times Football correspondent).
b) That is a risk that the owners would have to make a judgement on
c) I don't want CCFC to move at all, I don't support any such strategy.
d) I was vehemently against the move to Northampton, I view it as a gross mistake.

 

[Nick]

a) The FL won't allow a move more than 8 miles from Coventry city centre. A fact that has been confirmed by Henry Winter (the Times Football correspondent).
b) That is a risk that the owners would have to make a judgement on
c) I don't want CCFC to move at all, do you?
d) I was vehemently against the move to Northampton, I view it as a gross mistake.

I've said from day one I'd be done if there was a full time move, but it seems it's good business so should be looked into. Maybe find loop holes.

Target a fan base.

Maybe somewhere cheaper too.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

WASPS have gone from being tenants in a 12,000 capacity stadium to owners (effectively although not legally) of a 33,000 stadium with a major football club as its tenant, looks like they have a strategy to develop and grow their club. Remind me of the recent SISU strategy even post Northampton they were building their own ground but in Warwickshire and not Coventry, there were meetings to discuss this stadium and talk about talks with the various local councils and what materialised ?

WASPS seem to be delivering on their strategy on and off the pitch. There is no glee from me over this but thats how it looks to many, a positive and forward thinking club compared to us. Unfortunately there needs to be acceptance of our position by many on here rather than harping on about continued injustice and conspiracy theories. A play off date at Wembley would force the CET pages to report the 40,000 fans going to Wembley, a 10 game winning run, being top of the league, managing to get to the 3rd / 4th round of the cup and drawing one of the big boys at home. Unfortunately this requires the type of investment and long-term vision that SISU haven't had since 2011.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

a) The FL won't allow a move more than 8 miles from Coventry city centre. A fact that has been confirmed by Henry Winter (the Times Football correspondent).
b) That is a risk that the owners would have to make a judgement on
c) I don't want CCFC to move at all, I don't support any such strategy.
d) I was vehemently against the move to Northampton, I view it as a gross mistake.

In a recent post you've just applauded Wasps for making an ambitious move in moving 80 miles in the pursuit of success and financial gain and implied our owners should do something similar.

Assume for a moment the FL rules would allow it to happen and also assume it would be successful in terms of team success on the pitch and a success in providing financial security, would you then find it acceptable?

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

I think they ruled London out some time before the Ricoh was announced due to cost. I'm not saying talks weren't going on, but in comparison to how CCFC alienated 95% of the fan base, the whole conduct of the two clubs were miles apart. That to me is a reason why a lot of people view the moves differently.

Thats a fair enough point if true but I was sure they said they intended to move back to London a short while before the Ricoh move was announced.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

In a recent post you've just applauded Wasps for making an ambitious move in moving 80 miles in the pursuit of success and financial gain and implied our owners should do something similar.

Assume for a moment the FL rules would allow it to happen and also assume it would be successful in terms of team success on the pitch and a success in providing financial security, would you then find it acceptable?

If it moved so far way it would cease to be my club. Football is different to rugby, football fans pledge alleigance to a club and tend to stick to that club, rugby fans their alleigance tends to be with the sport in general. Also is never going to happen unlikely to ever generate enough new support in the new location to replace the lost old supporters.

 

[jas365]

Thats a fair enough point if true but I was sure they said they intended to move back to London a short while before the Ricoh move was announced.

They announced they would be leaving Adams Park 18 months before they did. They had applied to the council to build a new stadium in a joint venture with WWFC, but it was turned down. At that point they said they had to leave.

Initially I think they planned to move back to London, but pretty quickly realised that was not going to be an option. I know someone through work who is very high up in rugby media, and he told me ages before the Ricoh deal was announced that they had looked at several options further afield from the London area.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

If it moved so far way it would cease to be my club. Football is different to rugby, football fans pledge alleigance to a club and tend to stick to that club, rugby fans their alleigance tends to be with the sport in general. Also is never going to happen unlikely to ever generate enough new support in the new location to replace the lost old supporters.

You shouldn't applaud one club and hold them up as an example for others to follow and then chastise another clubs for doing the exact same thing which is what some people do.

I recognise the Wasps and Northampton move were very different so I'm not trying to compare them, which is why I made up a fictional scenario instead, I know the practicality of it in football would make it near on impossible which is why I said for the sake of the point assume it would be allowed to happen and assume it would be a success.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

"You shouldn't applaud one club and hold them up as an example for others to follow and then chastise another clubs for doing the exact same thing which is what some people do."

At what point have I ever suggested we do that. We were wrong to go to Northampton, I don't care what happened to WASPS or their fans but their link to Wycombe was weak at best, CCFC were formed in Coventry and belong in Coventry. I'm not applauding anything but recognising that their move seems to have worked out for the club and its fans.

 

[Grendel]

If it moved so far way it would cease to be my club. Football is different to rugby, football fans pledge alleigance to a club and tend to stick to that club, rugby fans their alleigance tends to be with the sport in general. Also is never going to happen unlikely to ever generate enough new support in the new location to replace the lost old supporters.

So supporters of Leicester, Northampton and Gloucester are only interested in the sport and not the club? Really? So if Leicester moved to say Manchester the fans would just hop along to wasps or Northampton would they?

As for their fans accepting the move I think not. According to Eastwood (a character you seem to hold in high esteem as you continually repeat his PR on here) 90% of supporters come from the CV postcode. This means 1,400 don't so by definition 80% don't go. Still i am sure you know more than their supporters

http://www.theguardian.com/sport/2014/oct/09/wasps-coventry-move-london-fans-rugby-union

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

"You shouldn't applaud one club and hold them up as an example for others to follow and then chastise another clubs for doing the exact same thing which is what some people do."

At what point have I ever suggested we do that. We were wrong to go to Northampton, I don't care what happened to WASPS or their fans but their link to Wycombe was weak at best, CCFC were formed in Coventry and belong in Coventry. I'm not applauding anything but recognising that their move seems to have worked out for the club and its fans.

Sorry didn't mean you specifically but some people do, you replied to my post and my post was a response to Captain Dart on here, he was applauding Wasps for their move in this thread and also seemed to suggest we should do something similar.

 

[SkyBlue_Bear83]

There was a petition started to keep Wasps in/around the London area. It got 3,000 signatures which isn't bad considering they only got 5,000 attendances at Adams Park. Seems like more lies and manipulation to make the Wasps move appear acceptable.

 

[Grendel]

There was a petition started to keep Wasps in/around the London area. It got 3,000 signatures which isn't bad considering they only got 5,000 attendances at Adams Park.

The reply you will get back on this is that this was before Eastwood explained the reasons behind the move and then they all understood.

The fact they don't go anymore is of course because rugby fans don't follow a team but the sport so that's ok.

Italia will be along soon to tell us the Ricoh is full of fans not from here so they do still go. Which is odd given that all their marketing is exclusive to the CV area.

 

[covmark]

The reply you will get back on this is that this was before Eastwood explained the reasons behind the move and then they all understood.

The fact they don't go anymore is of course because rugby fans don't follow a team but the sport so that's ok.

Italia will be along soon to tell us the Ricoh is full of fans not from here so they do still go. Which is odd given that all their marketing is exclusive to the CV area.

Surely no one listens to that clown Italia anymore anyway.

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[shy_tall_knight]

What was the level of protest in Wycombe regarding the proposed "permanent" move, I suggest it was negligible. I doubt Grendel attended the 2014 march in Coventry as he was too busy sorting out his Sixfield's seasom ticket I stand by my comment that club alleigance is less for rugby fans than it is for football fans. I only evewr watch CCFC despite having numerous opportunities to watch premeir league football for free.

 

[skybluetony176]

There was a petition started to keep Wasps in/around the London area. It got 3,000 signatures which isn't bad considering they only got 5,000 attendances at Adams Park. Seems like more lies and manipulation to make the Wasps move appear acceptable.

I signed that and I've never been to a Wasps game ever. Their traditional fan base hardly made a whimper especially when you consider the significance of what was happening. They're hardly AFC Wimbledon or FC United fans by any stretch of the imagination.

 

[Sick Boy]

Our hypocritical and apathetic fans deserve everything they get.

 

[Sick Boy]

Fans of other clubs looking in would be pissing themselves over our supposed fans falling over themselves to make excuses for a franchise rugby club and even holding them up as an example to follow.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Our hypocritical and apathetic fans deserve everything they get.

Not sure CFC deserve half of the crap we've had to put up with but do explain

 

[skybluetony176]

Fans of other clubs looking in would be pissing themselves over our supposed fans falling over themselves to make excuses for a franchise rugby club and even holding them up as an example to follow.

They would have started laughing the minute over a thousand fans walked through the Sixfields gate.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Fans of other clubs looking in would be pissing themselves over our supposed fans falling over themselves to make excuses for a franchise rugby club and even holding them up as an example to follow.

I'm not making excuses for WASPS, WASP have taking advantage of an opportunity. We as a club need to move on and not just grumble about past injustices. If moving on means collaborating with WASPS long-term so be it, if moving on means a new stadium in Coventry, then I'll be behind that as well but there is an example in wasps that we could do with following , sucess on the pitch as a start.

 

[Sick Boy]

Not sure CFC deserve half of the crap we've had to put up with but do explain

No other club's fans would be falling over themselves to make excuses for a franchise moving into the city. It's completely embarrassing and hypocritical.

I'm not sure why some even bother supporting ccfc when clearly their hatred of the owners is bigger than their love of the club.

 

[Sick Boy]

I'm not making excuses for WASPS, WASP have taking advantage of an opportunity. We as a club need to move on and not just grumble about past injustices. If moving on means collaborating with WASPS long-term so be it, if moving on means a new stadium in Coventry, then I'll be behind that as well but there is an example in wasps that we could do with following , sucess on the pitch as a start.

Why model ourselves on a club owned by a hedge fund and moved 95 miles away?

 

[Moff]

not you on the conspiracy stuff Nick - sorry I did try to separate the reply

But the concentration on the morals though admirable solves our reality how other than pointing fingers? - hasn't there been enough of that?

And I am not saying we should forget but this board (bored) spends hours rehashing the same history and generally never dealing with now & how to progress

Sorry OSB, but it seems finger pointing comes from both sides in this sorry mess, pro council, anti council, pro wasps anti Wasps et al and so forth.

Sadly the complete mess of our club leaves a bitterness with people and this leads to a rehash of the past time and again, and yes I agree it gets us nowhere. People look at Wasps and wish it was us, will that ever diminish?

You have asked the question several times about where do we go? and how do we progress? and I guess by the fact that you havent addressed this issue, that you like the rest of us dont have the answers or if you do cant effect the outcome anyway as its all in the clubs owners hands.

 

[shy_tall_knight]

Why model ourselves on a club owned by a hedge fund and moved 95 miles away?

I agree we have nothing to learn from WASPS and the SISU strategy and business model is the envy of the football world and will be repeated by clubs up and down the country. My particular favourites awere the barrow in tesco as a club shop and our excellent ticketing arrangements, go SISU go.

 

[dadgad]

WASPS moved to Cov, as part of a survival strategy for their club, SISU moved us to Northampton to try to distress ACL & CCC, it was for personal/ spiteful reasons and SISU business interests not for the long-term strategic benefit of CCFC. The majority of the WASPS fans supported the move, the majority of Cov fans opposed the move.
.

Correct.
The problem now - short term and future - how can Sisu pretend they want the best for the club when their record demonstrates the opposite?
Nobody (but a few nut cases) thinks that losing the Ricoh isnt a self inflicted wound........but the majority of fans are still dreaming of promotion, etc.!!
Sisu have no such ambition.

 

[Skyblueweeman]

Football is different to rugby, football fans pledge alleigance to a club and tend to stick to that club, rugby fans their alleigance tends to be with the sport in general.

Wow.......


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[Ian1779]

I agree we have nothing to learn from WASPS and the SISU strategy and business model is the envy of the football world and will be repeated by clubs up and down the country. My particular favourites awere the barrow in tesco as a club shop and our excellent ticketing arrangements, go SISU go.

But ignore the point he was actually making in that we are supposed to hold up a franchise that moved from London as an exemplar, when the practice of moving clubs was widely condemned on here - and rightly so.

 

[Moff]

Cardiff was only formed in 2003 when Welsh Rugby was radically reorganised.

Sorry you seem to be barking up the wrong tree. Cardiff Blues came into existence in 2003, along with the Scarlets, Ospreys and the Dragons, as a regional team, for the advent of the Celtic League, and for the professional era. There has been a team in Cardiff since 1876.

All the regions play in a City/Town incorporating the local team/area they represent whilst each City/Town keep their amateur/semi pro team as a feeder to the Regional Side. This was done to enable the regions to survive in the pro era, as the clubs wouldnt have done on their own, and yet despite this, one region the Celtic Warriors still went bust.

 

[Ian1779]

WASPS moved to Cov, as part of a survival strategy for their club, SISU moved us to Northampton to try to distress ACL & CCC, it was for personal/ spiteful reasons and SISU business interests not for the long-term strategic benefit of CCFC. The majority of the WASPS fans supported the move, the majority of Cov fans opposed the move.

Most of the general public will believe that WASPS have the moral high ground.

That is bollocks on an epic scale.