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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (31 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,696
MalcSB said:
But was there a genuine need for a high speed rail project that shaves minutes off “on train” journey time, but adds significantly in terms of time to a train access point, in such a relatively small country? Was it really a priority over the investments in societal benefit that I mentioned? No country can afford to do everything.
Click to expand...

Yes. Train delays hurt productivity. Our Ancient transport infrastructure is a huge part of the issues we have as a country being so much poorer than comparable nations
 
Reactions: Sick Boy, fernandopartridge and Sky_Blue_Dreamer
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,697
shmmeee said:
Yes. Train delays hurt productivity. Our Ancient transport infrastructure is a huge part of the issues we have as a country being so much poorer than comparable nations
Click to expand...
So by definition we become a backwood state here in Coventry?
 
Reactions: MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,698
shmmeee said:
Yes. Train delays hurt productivity. Our Ancient transport infrastructure is a huge part of the issues we have as a country being so much poorer than comparable nations
Click to expand...
Train delays? What has that got to do with HS2? Ensuring drivers are in the right place at the right time, modernising working practices across the rail network by discontinuing ancient Spanish practices and train drivers who earn more than junior doctors not striking would help quite a lot.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,699
chiefdave said:
This doesn't seem to get mentioned anywhere near as often as us being told Starmer won't be able to change anything as there's no money. Where the fuck is it all going?


Was in Sweden a few months back and got talking to the locals and the general opinion seemed to be that high taxes weren't really considered an issue by most people because things just work. A new school or hospital is needed is just gets built, roads need building or repairing it just gets sorted. We seem to have the worst of both worlds, a high tax burden and not much to show for it
Click to expand...
It's also helpful when you have a fairer, more equal society, as everyone feels like they're contributing equally.

Here with massive inequality the rich think they're shouldering too much of the tax burden and why should they pay for stuff they don't use while the poor are just lazy scroungers, while the poor think the rich should be contributing a lot more. So you get huge roadblocks and, due to money buying influence, those that can pay are largely exempted from doing so.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,700
wingy said:
So by definition we become a backwood state here in Coventry?
Click to expand...

We should really be part of Birmingham economically. As in it should be easy and quick to commute via train or tram to Birmingham. Getting to London is only important because that’s where all the economic activity is.

Not popular in Coventry but probably true. I only work in London cos there’s fuck all decent jobs in Brum.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,701
MalcSB said:
Train delays? What has that got to do with HS2? Ensuring drivers are in the right place at the right time, modernising working practices across the rail network by discontinuing ancient Spanish practices and train drivers who earn more than junior doctors not striking would help quite a lot.
Click to expand...

Delays happen for a multitude of reasons capacity being one of them.

Put it this way: Is there anything you would build?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,702
shmmeee said:
You assume everyone can get a full time NMW job. The stats don’t back that up. Illness, precarious work, not being able to get the hours, etc all impact.
Click to expand...
When I was working from home I was shocked at how many people were about in the day and clearly didn't work. Did a quick google and it looks like around 1 in 4 people of working age don't work, for a variety of reasons.

Who are the millions of Britons not working, and why?

About a quarter of the working age population - those aged 16 to 64 - do not currently have a job.
www.bbc.co.uk

NGL it can be hard not to turn into a stereotypical Daily Mail type 'they've got a flatscreen TV' when you see the house a few doors down, a couple similarly aged to me neither of whom work, having new windows, kitchen etc while I'm working 50 - 60 hours a week, and so stressed with work it recently put me in hospital, with a kitchen that's literally falling apart wondering how I'm ever going to afford to replace it.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,703
chiefdave said:
When I was working from home I was shocked at how many people were about in the day and clearly didn't work. Did a quick google and it looks like around 1 in 4 people of working age don't work, for a variety of reasons.

Who are the millions of Britons not working, and why?

About a quarter of the working age population - those aged 16 to 64 - do not currently have a job.
www.bbc.co.uk

NGL it can be hard not to turn into a stereotypical Daily Mail type 'they've got a flatscreen TV' when you see the house a few doors down, a couple similarly aged to me neither of whom work, having new windows, kitchen etc while I'm working 50 - 60 hours a week, and so stressed with work it recently put me in hospital, with a kitchen that's literally falling apart wondering how I'm ever going to afford to replace it.
Click to expand...

Benefits scroungers in town boast they 'chill out and enjoy life'

EXCLUSIVE: The unemployed in Jaywick, Essex are claiming 'thousands of pounds' a month of taxpayer's cash - while locals complain there are jobs, people just don't want them.
www.dailymail.co.uk
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,704
The new A30 expansion is nearly finished in Cornwall meaning more traffic and pollution down there.

If only we just put a high speed rail link from Paddington to Penzance so that journey didn't take over 5 hours.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,705
shmmeee said:

Climbing the Summit: Big cities in the UK and the G7 - Centre for Cities

Associate Director Anthony Breach and Director of Policy and Research Paul Swinney explore the role played by the largest cities outside London in the UK’s yawning prosperity gap with other G7 economies.
www.centreforcities.org

If only someone had some policy around making the rest of the country as productive as London. We could give it a cute videogame based name, Up a Level or something
Click to expand...

I think public spending per head e.g. on transport of 8 times other regions is probably one reason.
 
Reactions: shmmeee

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,706
shmmeee said:
Delays happen for a multitude of reasons capacity being one of them.

Put it this way: Is there anything you would build?
Click to expand...
I have said what I would invest in which would require some building,
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,707
MalcSB said:
I have said what I would invest in which would require some building,
Click to expand...

I just think it all needs doing. We’re so far behind most similar nations on every transport metric: HS lines, electrification, trams, undergrounds, etc.
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,708
lol

 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,709
UK public austerity disinvestment translates to the same in private sector imo. The government must at some point recognise that the private sector cannot and will not always lead. Infrastructure in particular.
 
Reactions: Sick Boy and shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,710
fernandopartridge said:
I think public spending per head e.g. on transport of 8 times other regions is probably one reason.
Click to expand...

It’s treasury brain, because London is so much more productive the sums always show a bigger benefit to building in London so that’s what they approve.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and Sky Blue Pete

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,711
shmmeee said:
We should really be part of Birmingham economically. As in it should be easy and quick to commute via train or tram to Birmingham. Getting to London is only important because that’s where all the economic activity is.

Not popular in Coventry but probably true. I only work in London cos there’s fuck all decent jobs in Brum.
Click to expand...
You could always support your own policy and increase London population density by moving there.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,712
MalcSB said:
You could always support your own policy and increase London population density by moving there.
Click to expand...

I like my kids I’m afraid.

But also why should everyone have to move to London for a decent job and the rest of the country just rot?
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,713
shmmeee said:
It’s treasury brain, because London is so much more productive the sums always show a bigger benefit to building in London so that’s what they approve.
Click to expand...

In my opinion the treasury should serve the government not the other way around
 
Reactions: shmmeee

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,714
Liquid Gold said:
lol

Click to expand...
I just can't

Wonder what the comparable construction period would have been to just build it without a tunnel? Significant less.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,715
shmmeee said:
I like my kids I’m afraid.

But also why should everyone have to move to London for a decent job and the rest of the country just rot?
Click to expand...
So invest in moving jobs out of London, not in making it quicker (LOL) to get there.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,716
fernandopartridge said:
In my opinion the treasury should serve the government not the other way around
Click to expand...
It gets back to the old principality argument I was making a few years back!
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,717
More from this tax guy on CGT, he posts some interesting financial analysis that isn’t just “give the rich more money and it’ll trickle down” or “money isn’t real spend as much as you like”

 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,718
MalcSB said:
So invest in moving jobs out of London, not in making it quicker (LOL) to get there.
Click to expand...

…

Yes. That’s what I said. Improve local links, which is done by moving national links off the local network. You were the one complaining it won’t be quicker to get from Coventry to London, I was explaining why that wasn’t the intention.
 
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,719
fernandopartridge said:
I just can't

Wonder what the comparable construction period would have been to just build it without a tunnel? Significant less.
Click to expand...
Depends what the tunnels achieve really don't it over era's?
 
Reactions: Deleted member 5849

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,720
What the anti-HS2 zealots have actually achieved is cancelling it in the North and only serving London really. While claiming they don’t care about London. Genius.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,721
wingy said:
Depends what the tunnels achieve really don't it over era's?
Click to expand...

They mean posh people can walk their dogs in peace.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,722
MalcSB said:
So invest in moving jobs out of London, not in making it quicker (LOL) to get there.
Click to expand...

The primary benefit of HS2 is capacity not speed.
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,723
fernandopartridge said:
The primary benefit of HS2 is capacity not speed.
Click to expand...

Kind of plays into the point around messaging being incorrect from the get-go.
 
Reactions: fernandopartridge

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,724

Hospital waiting lists rise to 7.57m

Jump in England comes after ministers claimed the NHS backlog had started to come down.
www.bbc.co.uk

With this and growth flatlining it's almost as if the universe wants Sunak to fuck off.
 
Reactions: wingy and Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,725
Straight into my YIMBY veins

 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,726
More reasons to love trains: zero chance of meeting Nigel Farage

 
Reactions: torchomatic, Sick Boy, Deleted member 5849 and 3 others
W

wingy

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,727
shmmeee said:
More reasons to love trains: zero chance of meeting Nigel Farage

Click to expand...
Well he'd fail a breathyliser anyway wouldn't he?
 

Liquid Gold

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,728
We should be building a dozen HS trains.

London to Inverness
South West
Liverpool to Hull
Glasgow to Aberdeen
Newcastle to Bristol

High speed rail should be the cheap, easy and quick option to travel.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer, torchomatic, Nuskyblue and 3 others

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,729
Grendel said:
What are you on about now. Even someone who has a state pension and a very modest private pension of £4k per annum would pay income tax.
Click to expand...
Only if it was more than £12500 in total
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jun 13, 2024
  • #37,730
shmmeee said:
Straight into my YIMBY veins

View attachment 36148View attachment 36149
Click to expand...

Didn't the Tories already try this? I remember it happening in Greater Manchester, there was a mayor led 'spatial framework' where each of the GM authorities had to assign spaces for housing developments. It's taken years to get it approved:

Home

Greater Manchester Combined Authority (GMCA) - working together to improve the lives of people in Greater Manchester - Bolton, Bury, Manchester, Oldham, Rochdale, Salford, Stockport, Tameside, Trafford, Wigan
www.greatermanchester-ca.gov.uk
 
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