Do you want to discuss boring politics? (22 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Are you suggesting that he’s using immigration to expose who’s going downstairs?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
As I believe in neither, it was as likely to be one as the other. I was being as serious as Ian.Are you suggesting that he’s using immigration to expose who’s going downstairs?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I wondered how the vicar of Witherley levelled being a Christian with not letting us have our ball back when it went in the vicarage garden when I was a kid. A different twist on “suffer little children”.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Blind faith in anything is a simple answer
The Christian faith is living out the reality of the beatitudes and seeking to embody the person of Jesus
Living your life for others is bloody hard as I’m sure you know
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I’m happy there’s a level but that requires a global community working interdependently and that seems further from happening by the day
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
He was obviously a wanker
Many faith ful people are
I can be but I try to be better each day and seek to do what Jesus would do which I would suggest is to give you your ball back and show you the character of god
fatso
Well-Known Member
Would you support unrestricted immigration, ie totally open borders with no checks or restrictions?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Would you kill the health and social care sector and the education sector as well as any advanced research to get to net zero immigration?
fatso
Well-Known Member
It would mean Google translate would be a sin.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Well firstly, it's illegal immigration that it the issue. So unless the NHS and social care is staffed by illegal immigrants, it's not going to be impacted.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
this winds me up so much. the way legal immigrants, illegal immigrants and refugees are so often just referred to as one group of people
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
So it’s not numbers? Illegal immigration is a tiny fraction of overall numbers. I thought the issue was raising house prices and traffic and GPs and stuff?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The way I use it all of Google is a sin
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Didn’t an “illegal” immigrant from Afghanistan win the award of NHS Doctor of the year a couple years back? Was smuggled into the UK as a teenager before being granted asylum I seem to remember.
In the big scheme of things “illegal” immigration isn’t the issue. Legal immigration far outnumbers it.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Yes it does. But that at least is controlled to a certain extent.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I would yes. I never used to be in favour, but I think it will inevitably happen at some stage.
fatso
Well-Known Member
All the things you mention are relevant, but if we control the numbers the impact can be calculated and costed. (Although we've done a piss poor job so far)
With no control we have no chance of maintaining a functioning infrastructure.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Just wondering what success would look like. Is it specifically small boats you want to see reduced or is there some other marker ?
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So do we need an agreement with the EU then?
fatso
Well-Known Member
Success would be our government (specifically the treasurey i guess) having some form of control over net migration levels.
You can't expect any organisation to keep a tight grip on budgets when the demands arnt known and therefore can't be costed.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Quite the contrary.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Then you would need to start outright banning legal migration. Nice one copying Farage’s argument almost verbatim though.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Why on earth would I want to ban legal migration? That makes no sense at all.
Migration is vital, it's just the numbers that are currently unsustainable.
But nice one jumping to the wrong conclusion. You'll be calling me a racist next, that's what usually happens when reasonable debate becomes exhausted.
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
So the current status quo then. How’s that going?
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
So then you need to decide which legal forms of migration you wish to curb as those are by far the biggest proportion of the numbers. How many foreigners is too many in your view?
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
Paula Vennell's is an ordained priest.
fatso
Well-Known Member
Too many is when the net migration numbers result in a breakdown of our infrastructure, (which we are already seeing in the NHS)
and when the burden on the treasurey results in or contributes to dramatic cost cutting to public spending and/or excessive tax rises which impacts families (especially during a cost of living crisis)
Quite what that exact number is is down to far cleverer people than you'll find on a football forum.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
That’s on the tories
skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Dare I say but you can thank Brexit. I heard an explanation for it the other day that made perfect sense. When we had freedom of movement with the EU we had very fluid immigration with the natural control being the availability of jobs. The majority of people weren’t permanent immigration, they’d often come to the UK for a few years before returning home set up for life, some came seasonally only. Crucially we had freedom of movement from a pool of roughly about 450 million people, although obviously only a percentage of that number would be of working age.
Fast forward to post Brexit and we obviously need to replace somehow the fluid arrangement we had before. So we look to replace it with immigration from outside the EU. However there’s was an issue, the UK needed to be more attractive to international migrants. The big one being certain thresholds were too strict to ensure we replaced EU FOM so one of the first things we did was lower the wage threshold from £30K a year to £26K a year IIRC. Only now the pool is about 8.5B people although again only a certain percentage of that will be people of working age. All of a sudden we have a record amount of legal immigration in one year of 750K as the nett figure in 2022.
It was always one of the great cons of Brexit. We replaced a very fluid immigration system from a small pool that worked well for the UK economy for a very solid immigration policy from a far larger pool of people. Let’s not forget that also means that a large number now coming are baked in. They’re not returning back to their home country once they’ve made the money they set out to and growing old there. The new crop are largely here for life, that means our NHS and Social Care system will have to look after them, that means we’re going to need more immigrants as we have a declining birth rate. We’ve got ourselves in a vicious circle of being even more dependent on immigration.
fatso
Well-Known Member
I don't doubt it, but it also happened under Blair if I remember correctly, and I don't see it improving under Labour.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Farage has told you to believe that too many foreigners is the only reason why everything’s a mess. It isn’t.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
The disinvestment in the home office and lack of action on dealing with claims I mean
Immigration was for a long time essential
The levels are too high without the investment required rather than handing money out to people who are already extremely rich