Do you want to discuss boring politics? (190 Viewers)

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2024

shmmeee said:
Whats “the system”? We get fuck loads of workers and students in cos we want fuck loads of workers and students. That’s the system working as it should. If the numbers are too high we need to decide as a nation which industries or unis were going to tell to go to the wall. Some on the right are doing that already claiming most unis should shut down. It’s a claim but I don’t see it being very popular. Ultimately the only things to consistently beat immigration as a voter concern are health and the economy, so the only solution is to tell a bunch of British kids they can’t go to uni, and then end up bringing more in as skilled workers.

Yeah now universities are more 'commercial', just about every Russell Group university depends on overseas students to finance things. As shown before (and laughed at...) those who stay after their degree tend to get a skilled job, which therefore contributes to our economy as well.

I mean fine, cut them. But then we all need to pay more to invest in higher education so we stay competitive on a global stage.

And just what harm do overseas students do anyway?!?

MalcSB · Jul 2, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
Yeah now universities are more 'commercial', just about every Russell Group university depends on overseas students to finance things. As shown before (and laughed at...) those who stay after their degree tend to get a skilled job, which therefore contributes to our economy as well.

I mean fine, cut them. But then we all need to pay more to invest in higher education so we stay competitive on a global stage.

And just what harm do overseas students do anyway?!?

They add to our CO2 footprint, all those flights home.

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2024

Deleted member 5849 said:
For students whose visas ended in the academic year 2018 to 2019, 35% successfully applied for new visas and stayed in the UK.

The majority of non-EU students who stayed in the UK went on to another study visa after their courses between 2015 and 2020.

Most students who stay for work receive a T2 skilled worker visa.

It's worth noting that those who got a new study visa also include PhD students who needed more time to finish. What you going to do? Tell them to sod off before finishing? Deny this country the benefits of their research? Ensure all the skilled overseas students go elsewhere as a result?

Deleted member 5849 · Jul 2, 2024

MalcSB said:
They add to our CO2 footprint, all those flights home.

Keeping British Airways pilots in jobs

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jul 2, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
They weren’t guesstimated at all. They’re based on the NI and benefits data bases. Which is exactly the same method we use today. It’s all on the ONS Website.

You're so wrong. The ons system was based on guestimates and not fit for purpose....they said so themselves.....they couldn't really say anything else when they've been proved to have under guestimated by about 3 million.

You're completely in denial. FOM was uncontrolled and out of control

Brexit: How many more EU nationals in UK than previously thought?

Five years on from referendum, it turns out there were far more EU nationals in the UK than was thought.

www.bbc.co.uk

skybluetony176 · Jul 2, 2024

jimmyhillsfanclub said:
You're so wrong. The ons system was based on guestimates and not fit for purpose....they said so themselves.....they couldn't really say anything else when they've been proved to have under guestimated by about 3 million.

You're completely in denial. FOM was uncontrolled and out of control

Brexit: How many more EU nationals in UK than previously thought?

Five years on from referendum, it turns out there were far more EU nationals in the UK than was thought.

www.bbc.co.uk

Yep, you see what you did there was link an article that says exactly what I said. The numbers I’ve been quoting are from the ONS and based on NIN. The numbers in the article even match with those on the ONS website. The numbers on the ONS website for the last 3 years use the exact same method post Brexit that they did pre Brexit. Based on NIN.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2024

MalcSB said:
As opposed to a left wing grift echo chamber. Or SBT.

Yeah, football fans. That well known ultra-left faction of society.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 2, 2024

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It's complicated, but a lot of people move here for a better life. I don't begrudge that at all, it's really the system that needs looking at in that case.

I genuinely don't think most people have a problem with immigration, certainly they aren't racist, so it frustrates me when that's the go to. It's more the level of numbers I think.

Thanks for engaging so nicely by the way.

I’ll admit to being very surprised to see the recent net figures being the best part of a million, that’s baffling to me.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 2, 2024

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Who knows mate, but the French have clearly had enough. All that can be sure is calling everyone that doesn't agree with you or has different views on immigration a racist, is unlikely to make them listen and vote differently. There's better ways to have constructive conversations, but the same lessons don't seem to get learned. The way this is going at the moment shouldn't be a surprise to anyone.

People have tried having constructive conversations. We've agreed that high migration puts pressure on services and housing, and can lead to very abrupt culture changes that can be difficult to adjust to. But at the same time we've pointed out that as well as putting pressure on services the migrants are keeping some going by providing the workforce 9and if you wanted a homegrown workforce you'd have to pay those jobs a FUCK-TON more money to make people do them). We also point out that the statistics show that migrants add more into the economy than they take out. The different cultures can also given us new ideas and experiences.

But do that and the average response is 'woke leftie', you want open borders' etc.

Who's not listening?

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · Jul 2, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
People have tried having constructive conversations. We've agreed that high migration puts pressure on services and housing, and can lead to very abrupt culture changes that can be difficult to adjust to. But at the same time we've pointed out that as well as putting pressure on services the migrants are keeping some going by providing the workforce 9and if you wanted a homegrown workforce you'd have to pay those jobs a FUCK-TON more money to make people do them). We also point out that the statistics show that migrants add more into the economy than they take out. The different cultures can also given us new ideas and experiences.

But do that and the average response is 'woke leftie', you want open borders' etc.

Who's not listening?

Oh dear. We were doing so well as well. The 'woke leftie' approach to immigration is the main cause of the right wing rise that we are seeing.

You do also realise that whilst we can 'learn something from other cultures' we can also import some of the worst things from other third world cultures as well?

Look at the crime rates throughout Europe, or get Tony to do it with his Stevie Wonder approach to facts and statistics. It's absolutely out of control.

shmmeee · Jul 3, 2024

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Oh dear. We were doing so well as well. The 'woke leftie' approach to immigration is the main cause of the right wing rise that we are seeing.

You do also realise that whilst we can 'learn something from other cultures' we can also import some of the worst things from other third world cultures as well?

Look at the crime rates throughout Europe, or get Tony to do it with his Stevie Wonder approach to facts and statistics. It's absolutely out of control.

So what? What numbers from which countries are acceptable to you? And where would you cut them from? What will you do to cut crime rates? It’s just whinging about the world without any policy behind it.

MalcSB · Jul 3, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
Yeah, football fans. That well known ultra-left faction of society.

Are you trying to suggest that SBT members aren’t predominantly left wing?

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 3, 2024

MalcSB said:
Are you trying to suggest that SBT members aren’t predominantly left wing?

Coventry as a whole is a dominantly Labour voting city with a strong history of unionisation, immigration and fighting racism. It’s unsurprising for more of us to be ‘on the left’ than the average.

shmmeee · Jul 3, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Coventry as a whole is a dominantly Labour voting city with a strong history of unionisation, immigration and fighting racism. It’s unsurprising for more of us to be ‘on the left’ than the average.

60% of the country is voting for left wing ish parties of one flavour or another. This is just cope from people sad everyone doesn’t hate immigrants as much as them.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 3, 2024

shmmeee said:
60% of the country is voting for left wing ish parties of one flavour or another. This is just cope from people sad everyone doesn’t hate immigrants as much as them.

It’s a fair assumption that that % is probably higher among these forum users

Sky Blue Pete · Jul 3, 2024

Day 20: Technology

Click here to listen to an audio recording of this reflection.

Exodus 20.4

'You shall not make for yourself an idol ...'

Every generation faces new challenges as technology evolves. We are grappling today with breathtaking developments in science and technology. Government and society need to understand the benefits they can bring in healthcare, productivity, education and the environment.

But good tools can easily become dangerous weapons. Governments also need to understand the risks and dangers of technology: the distraction, distortion and addiction of social media; the new possibilities in warfare; the costs to truth and human creativity of deep fakes; the risks of unregulated development or deployment of artificial intelligence. We need a new, living, dynamic conversation about these new technologies in the years to come.

We pray today for scientists and all those developing new technologies; for safety online for the young and vulnerable; for good fruit and the avoidance of harm.

Help us to use developments in science
to heal and not to hurt,
give wisdom to government and regulators,
and grant that the world might benefit from innovation
and avoid potential harms.
Hear us, good Lord.

shmmeee · Jul 3, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It’s a fair assumption that that % is probably higher among these forum users

Not by a huge amount looking at various polls we’ve done down the years. Down a bit on Lib Dem and Tories and up a bit on Labour really.

clint van damme · Jul 3, 2024

MalcSB said:
Are you trying to suggest that SBT members aren’t predominantly left wing

It's definitely not the echo chamber you make out.
One of the most left wing posters is arguing against Tony with regards to immigration.

SIR ERNIE · Jul 3, 2024

shmmeee said:
60% of the country is voting for left wing ish parties of one flavour or another. This is just cope from people sad everyone doesn’t hate immigrants as much as them.

60% of the turnout, so probably somewhere around 17m of which around 11m will elect Labour.

David O'Day · Jul 3, 2024

clint van damme said:
It's definitely not the echo chamber you make out.
One of the most left wing posters is arguing against Tony with regards to immigration.

also why wouldn't a forum for a football team based in a left leaning city lean to left?

i'd be more shocked if there was a tory majority on here

jimmyhillsfanclub · Jul 3, 2024

skybluetony176 said:
Yep, you see what you did there was link an article that says exactly what I said. The numbers I’ve been quoting are from the ONS and based on NIN. The numbers in the article even match with those on the ONS website. The numbers on the ONS website for the last 3 years use the exact same method post Brexit that they did pre Brexit. Based on NIN.

No....What I did there was link an article that clearly proves that FOM was completely uncontrolled & completely out of control.

There were literally millions more EU citizens here than anyone knew about..... which bit of this don't you understand?

shmmeee · Jul 3, 2024

SIR ERNIE said:
60% of the turnout, so probably somewhere around 17m of which around 11m will elect Labour.

All available evidence we have says non voters vote the same as voters. They’re the last refuge of unpopular politicians.

David O'Day · Jul 3, 2024

Stride and Braverman have given up the ghost now it seems.

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 3, 2024

David O'Day said:
Stride and Braverman have given up the ghost now it seems.

SNP seem scared they might not get most of the Scottish seats too. Would be surprised if that happened still

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 3, 2024

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
Oh dear. We were doing so well as well. The 'woke leftie' approach to immigration is the main cause of the right wing rise that we are seeing.

You do also realise that whilst we can 'learn something from other cultures' we can also import some of the worst things from other third world cultures as well?

Look at the crime rates throughout Europe, or get Tony to do it with his Stevie Wonder approach to facts and statistics. It's absolutely out of control.

But where is your reasoned response to my concerns?

Who is going to fill the positions in the health service and social care if we don't have migration? How are we going to afford the increase in wages needed for it to be an attractive option for the native population? And how would you fill the jobs while those people are being trained?

It's all very well having concerns (as do I as I said before about the impact on society and the pressure on services and housing). But that doesn't fix the other problems, so why won't you listen to me and address those concerns I have?

It works both ways.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 3, 2024

MalcSB said:
Are you trying to suggest that SBT members aren’t predominantly left wing?

It would seem so, but the point is you ask the general public where they'd put football fans on the political scale I think the consensus would have them on the right. So if a football forum seems predominantly left wing then maybe the population as a whole is quite left wing and the right wing aren't quite the silent majority they make out.

PVA · Jul 3, 2024

MalcSB · Jul 3, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
It would seem so, but the point is you ask the general public where they'd put football fans on the political scale I think the consensus would have them on the right. So if a football forum seems predominantly left wing then maybe the population as a whole is quite left wing and the right wing aren't quite the silent majority they make out.

TBH it was a somewhat tongue in cheek comment in the original post which has blown up out of all proportion.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Jul 3, 2024

PVA said:

Well if anyone knows anything about pregnant with horrors it would be Boris.

David O'Day · Jul 3, 2024

PVA said:

how is a massively unpopular former PM turning up on the last day meant to change the dial?

pure cope

PVA · Jul 3, 2024

Bloody hell, only 7 seats where Tories have a greater than 85% chance of winning

Brighton Sky Blue · Jul 3, 2024

PVA said:
Bloody hell, only 7 seats where Tories have a greater than 85% chance of winning

Let’s see if it translates to reality in the polling booths. The simultaneous destruction of both Tories and the SNP would be a wet dream

MalcSB · Jul 3, 2024

Sky_Blue_Dreamer said:
But where is your reasoned response to my concerns?

Who is going to fill the positions in the health service and social care if we don't have migration? How are we going to afford the increase in wages needed for it to be an attractive option for the native population? And how would you fill the jobs while those people are being trained?

It's all very well having concerns (as do I as I said before about the impact on society and the pressure on services and housing). But that doesn't fix the other problems, so why won't you listen to me and address those concerns I have?

It works both ways.

So the left wing approach to staffing health and social care is not to pay a market rate for the jobs, but rather to exploit cheap immigrant labour.

MalcSB · Jul 3, 2024

David O'Day said:
how is a massively unpopular former PM turning up on the last day meant to change the dial?

pure cope

He is not unpopular with the target audience.

shmmeee · Jul 3, 2024

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Let’s see if it translates to reality in the polling booths. The simultaneous destruction of both Tories and the SNP would be a wet dream

Not being official opposition would really fuck the Tories. Not sure they’ve got the ground game to make third place work like the Lib Dems.

This is “if we win three games we’re in Europe” territory, but the entire political vibe would shift with a Lib Dem opposition. Would be interesting to see where the current vested interests in media and business would end up.

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