shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The argument here is the Tories did this successfully and framed Labour as over spenders for the next two decades.
Edit: I’ll also add, you’ve just won a 5 year term. This bit is meant to be about you, not what the opposition did. No one cares this far out.
Of course I know you're not a low/zero tax approach person. That's why I mentioned that the logical conclusion of your argument is exactly that, and I know you think that's a ridiculous proposition.
I do get the argument for it, but I think there are better ways to go about it. Having people earn a minimum wage they can actually live off for a start and then probably putting the tax free income at the value of rent, food + energy.
This I completely agree on. The UK is probably the greenest major economy, but it counts for none since we import a huge amount of products from countries with some of the worst economies for the environment.I don't get having high levels of income tax allied to high levels of sales tax as that's just double taxation. One or the other can be fine.
Probably arguing for the sake of it here but one reason is people have a tendency to buy shit they don't need. We're also using up raw materials and energy at an ever increasing rate to produce a lot of shit. We moan about the levels of pollution and gases China makes. The reason it does that is because it's producing the shit we buy. So maybe we could do with having people being a bit more discerning about what they buy.
And as I said I'd consider adding bands in so high cost items incur a higher tax level than lower ones. That would make it a bit more progressive.
The argument here is the Tories did this successfully and framed Labour as over spenders for the next two decades.
Not hoping, predicting.No you're hoping here!
As Trevor Philips showed, the alleged black hole is 2% of public expenditure which caught that intellectual midget Streeting on the hop. Of course you would show that there is no such thing in the first place ( I will read that paper, honest!).We haven't got a huge hole in the public finances, fucking hell.
They have got to make it about what the opposition did so they can set the bar really low for their own performance to be measured. I don’t see a second term for Labour.The argument of “the Conservatives were playing fast and loose with the country’s finances” is only half the story. The ‘spend’ was on nothing of value. If, for example, there was a plethora of infrastructure projects underway then the deficit doesn’t really matter (at less than 2% of total government spending; I’m not advocating for endless expenditure before anyone tries that). Fact is, the tax cuts given haven’t boosted economic performance so they were dead duck policies.
As Steve said earlier in the thread, there was a massive opportunity to use their short-term to make meaningful and positive change. They’ve blown their goodwill already which is staggeringly incompetent.
Edit: I’ll also add, you’ve just won a 5 year term. This bit is meant to be about you, not what the opposition did. No one cares this far out.
They’ve made themselves look fools because all the published figures has shown that the economy was doing better than the rest of the G7 (according to the measures used) and people can see those figures. It may not have filtered through to the man in the street In terms of a feel good factor - but it doesn’t sound like that is going to happen any time soon anyway.I get it, and in politics terms it was a brilliant set-piece. This clearly hasn’t cut through in the same way and they’ve made themselves look fools.
Good to see he's going into politics after robbing banks and patching things up with Michael!As Trevor Philips showed, the alleged black hole is 2% of public expenditure which caught that intellectual midget Streeting on the hop. Of course you would show that there is no such thing in the first place ( I will read that paper, honest!).
What a difference an l makes!Good to see he's going into politics after robbing banks and patching things up with Michael!
They’ve made themselves look fools because all the published figures has shown that the economy was doing better than the rest of the G7 (according to the measures used) and people can see those figures. It may not have filtered through to the man in the street In terms of a feel good factor - but it doesn’t sound like that is going to happen any time soon anyway.
Doesn't this show greater growth for the UK since the Covid low point? So not just one quarter.You’re still taking one quarter as some evidence of a great economy. Small growth from a low base doesn’t mean shit when it’s been preceded by 16 years of stagnation. It’s just fundamentally unserious to point to a momentary uptick and claim all is good. Is hasn’t “filtered down” because it’s an imperceptible rise from absolute shite.
The challenge for Labour is doing better.
Doesn't this show greater growth for the UK since the Covid low point? So not just one quarter.
View attachment 38357
The challenge for Labour is to do better. They are already breaking promises and shelving others.
You’re still taking one quarter as some evidence of a great economy. Small growth from a low base doesn’t mean shit when it’s been preceded by 16 years of stagnation. It’s just fundamentally unserious to point to a momentary uptick and claim all is good. Is hasn’t “filtered down” because it’s an imperceptible rise from absolute shite.
The challenge for Labour is doing better.
Hasn’t the GDP increase mostly been down to high immigration?Don’t want to be pedantic (again), but it’s two quarters and this current one is looking ok based on the PMI readings (not wholly accurate)
The problem the government will have is if/when it slows, which it undoubtedly will anyway, then the finger will be pointed at them for negative chat and any ‘non growth’ policy actions
ps MalcSB chart is out of date. Not pretty but we are above pre pandemic levels…think most major nations are now, apart from maybe Germany that is borderline. We’re on course for growing a bit more than most others this year which should close gap a littleView attachment 38359
Hasn’t the GDP increase mostly been down to high immigration?
It was shmmee’s chart.Don’t want to be pedantic (again), but it’s two quarters and this current one is looking ok based on the PMI readings (not wholly accurate)
The problem the government will have is if/when it slows, which it undoubtedly will anyway, then the finger will be pointed at them for negative chat and any ‘non growth’ policy actions
ps MalcSB chart is out of date. Not pretty but we are above pre pandemic levels…think most major nations are now, apart from maybe Germany that is borderline. We’re on course for growing a bit more than most others this year which should close gap a littleView attachment 38359
What is the wrong type of immigration?It would’ve helped but our PMIs have been stronger recently inc manufacturing which indicates some proper growth. As I’ve mentioned people/businesses were buying into a new government coming in, some long overdue stability and hopefully some growth policies (like the planning stuff, infrastructure etc). Just hope it’s not wasted. But we should all just wait and see what’s in the budget really
Edit - gdp per capita hasn’t been pretty for a while, it’s probably been the wrong type of immigration in some respects recently added to higher economic inactivity numbers
What is the wrong type of immigration?
Doesn't this show greater growth for the UK since the Covid low point? So not just one quarter.
View attachment 38357
The challenge for Labour is to do better. They are already breaking promises and shelving others.
That is the big question. Did the UK take actions which other countries didn't - I don't know, like furlough schemes etc that had a bigger impact.Well no, it shows the UK still hasn't recovered even to its pre-covid piss poor performance.
Why did it see a much greater economic decline during Covid than the EU or US? Who was in charge at that point?
Better reinstate the trading conditions that make the world tick then?Not much into my economics but the US and Europe are using different strategies to boost their economies out of the Covid downturn.
The US could be in real trouble with their low exchange rates and debt if unemployment goes up, and the German economy is meant to be set for a real dodgy patch too.
Other emerging markets like China doesn't seem to be taking off at all.
Not much into my economics but the US and Europe are using different strategies to boost their economies out of the Covid downturn.
The US could be in real trouble with their low exchange rates and debt if unemployment goes up, and the German economy is meant to be set for a real dodgy patch too.
Other emerging markets like China doesn't seem to be taking off at all.
Although it is weak ATM, behind the euro by around 10 cents, the pound meanwhile is overvalued due to Boe policy, get your act together!!The US are not going to be in any trouble with its debt. They can pay any debt in USD at any time as the issuer of USD. This is exactly the same as UK government debt in £.
The only trouble comes from the respective politicians at best ignorance of this point, or at worst, understanding that any debt in £ can be easily repaid but continued intention to mislead the public on it.
The ‘optics’ of this just keep getting worse. Is it really worth burning up all your goodwill for £1 billion?
Rachel Reeves urges Labour MPs to back winter fuel payment cut
Some Labour MPs are uneasy over the move to scrap winter fuel payments for millions of pensioners.www.bbc.co.uk
As the Democrats are finding out, the public don’t care about economic indicators if their personal experience is unchanged or gets worse.Its just bollocks isn’t it. “Oh blame the tories”. The Tories didn’t make you refuse to raise any taxes or follow batshit economic theory of cutting for prosperity.
As the Democrats are finding out, the public don’t care about economic indicators if their personal experience is unchanged or gets worse.
The US are not going to be in any trouble with its debt. They can pay any debt in USD at any time as the issuer of USD. This is exactly the same as UK government debt in £.
The only trouble comes from the respective politicians at best ignorance of this point, or at worst, understanding that any debt in £ can be easily repaid but continued intention to mislead the public on it.
I think it is in this specific case. ‘Look, I’ve reduced the deficit by 0.5%!’ ‘So?’Im not sure US politics is applicable to anywhere else TBH. Country is cooked.
I think it is in this specific case. ‘Look, I’ve reduced the deficit by 0.5%!’ ‘So?’
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?
We use cookies and similar technologies for the following purposes:
Do you accept cookies and these technologies?