Do you want to discuss boring politics? (12 Viewers)

CCFCSteve · Saturday at 2:01 PM

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Brighton Sky Blue said:
It does take two to tango considering which government presided over big cuts to policing. The good news is that at any time this government can wake up and try to do something transformative with the huge majority it's got.

All I see happening at the next election is Starmer going 'ah, but we got the deficit down!' as Farage walks into No. 10.

They’re not getting the deficit down. They’re already planning on borrowing extra 140bn over the parliament. I reckon if Reeves borrowed even another 20bn or so more the markets would’ve had another truss meltdown moment. As it was borrowing rates just crept up gradually so basically any wriggle room/buffer has probably gone. Really not sure how much more you’d want to borrow and spend in the short term

The focus for the electorate will be has the additional borrowing and tax been spent wisely and in conjunction with other decisions made by the government, have they improved the lives of a majority of people or not.

Brighton Sky Blue · Saturday at 2:03 PM

CCFCSteve said:
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They’re not getting the deficit down. They’re already planning on borrowing extra 140bn over the parliament. I reckon if Reeves borrowed even another 20bn or so more the markets would’ve had another truss meltdown moment. As it was borrowing rates just crept up gradually so basically any wriggle room/buffer has probably gone. Really not sure how much more you’d want to borrow and spend in the short term

The focus for the electorate will be has the additional borrowing and tax been spent wisely and in conjunction with other decisions made by the government, have they improved the lives of a majority of people or not.

Well there you go, the penny pinching isn’t even working on the metric they care about the most.

CCFCSteve · Saturday at 2:07 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well there you go, the penny pinching isn’t even working on the metric they care about the most.

I just think some don’t realise how much they’re planning on spending*. It’s far from penny pinching. As I say whether it’s spent well is the main thing for me

*reeves changed fiscal rules to free up the additional cash

shmmeee · Saturday at 3:03 PM

skybluegod said:
It used to be that. It no longer is. You can go to uni with pretty much any education or background, you can do a course that is about 5 hours a week and come out with a degree.

I don't look at people that to to uni now and say okay you must have something about you, if anything more and more people are questioning why?

on the other hand if you can’t even do that you must be proper shit.

MalcSB · Saturday at 4:14 PM

Brighton Sky Blue said:
It does take two to tango considering which government presided over big cuts to policing. The good news is that at any time this government can wake up and try to do something transformative with the huge majority it's got.

All I see happening at the next election is Starmer going 'ah, but we got the deficit down!' as Farage walks into No. 10.

This isn’t about previous cuts to policing, it’s about mis-prioritisation of available current resources.

Starmer Is basically encouraging the thought police.

MalcSB · Saturday at 4:17 PM

CCFCSteve said:
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They’re not getting the deficit down. They’re already planning on borrowing extra 140bn over the parliament. I reckon if Reeves borrowed even another 20bn or so more the markets would’ve had another truss meltdown moment. As it was borrowing rates just crept up gradually so basically any wriggle room/buffer has probably gone. Really not sure how much more you’d want to borrow and spend in the short term

The focus for the electorate will be has the additional borrowing and tax been spent wisely and in conjunction with other decisions made by the government, have they improved the lives of a majority of people or not.

That’s what happens when you think you have a Bank of Scotland economist as chancellor, but actually have a complaints team member from the Halifax.

On top of that, she has talked the economy down, so much for growth,

MalcSB · Saturday at 4:19 PM

I see that they are backtracking on the housing target, it’s now a two term plan, that’s not what they said at the outset. Isn’t going to happen, is it.

The £300 per year energy bill saving seems to have been abandoned as well, because standing charges will be increasing to deliver all this green stuff.

MalcSB · Saturday at 4:21 PM

CCFCSteve said:
.

They’re not getting the deficit down. They’re already planning on borrowing extra 140bn over the parliament. I reckon if Reeves borrowed even another 20bn or so more the markets would’ve had another truss meltdown moment. As it was borrowing rates just crept up gradually so basically any wriggle room/buffer has probably gone. Really not sure how much more you’d want to borrow and spend in the short term

The focus for the electorate will be has the additional borrowing and tax been spent wisely and in conjunction with other decisions made by the government, have they improved the lives of a majority of people or not.

I predict the answer will be “not”.

Grendel · Monday at 9:04 AM

Someone isn’t happy with labours first 100 days

The madness of Keir Starmer

There was economic insanity on display from Labour at its investment summit this week as it set out its begging bowl to international finance because it has no awareness that all the financial capital required to deliver the infrastructure that this country needs can all be created here in the...

www.taxresearch.org.uk

fernandopartridge · Monday at 11:10 AM

Grendel said:
I have two apprentices who now earn well above average wage and one who has studied while at work.

For many people they can easily be a better route to skills and full time employment

That's true but it is also true that a lot of 'apprenticeships' are really just certifying of skills somebody already has, which has made money for some private training providers.

For years there has been a massive target for x million apprenticeships which has led to this state of affairs.

Nick · Monday at 11:15 AM

My daughter is aiming for a degree apprenticeship. They actually make sense in that it's working and getting everything else paid for while getting experience on the job.

I actually think apprenticeships are a great route into a job, for things like trades then they should start earlier for kids who have no interest in academic stuff and just want to learn a trade. In year 11 for example, get the kids learning about being a gas engineer or an electrician rather than pointless shite.

fernandopartridge · Monday at 11:18 AM

Nick said:
My daughter is aiming for a degree apprenticeship. They actually make sense in that it's working and getting everything else paid for while getting experience on the job.

I actually think apprenticeships are a great route into a job, for things like trades then they should start earlier for kids who have no interest in academic stuff and just want to learn a trade. In year 11 for example, get the kids learning about being a gas engineer or an electrician rather than pointless shite.

That does happen but there is simply not the demand for that many apprentices - people constantly talk about "get an apprenticeship in x trade" but these are not mass employment jobs.

MalcSB · Monday at 11:26 AM

Grendel said:
Someone isn’t happy with labours first 100 days

The madness of Keir Starmer

There was economic insanity on display from Labour at its investment summit this week as it set out its begging bowl to international finance because it has no awareness that all the financial capital required to deliver the infrastructure that this country needs can all be created here in the...

www.taxresearch.org.uk

I think there’s a lot on here who aren’t either

fernandopartridge · Monday at 11:31 AM

Apply for pension credit they said:

DWP time to process an application for Pension Credit has gone from 25 working days to 52 working days. You might get Pension Credit by the end of January, if you've not frozen to death before then.

PVA · Monday at 11:32 AM

Grendel said:
Someone isn’t happy with labours first 100 days

The madness of Keir Starmer

There was economic insanity on display from Labour at its investment summit this week as it set out its begging bowl to international finance because it has no awareness that all the financial capital required to deliver the infrastructure that this country needs can all be created here in the...

www.taxresearch.org.uk

Fan of Murphy's now are you?

chiefdave · Monday at 11:33 AM

fernandopartridge said:
Apply for pension credit they said:

DWP time to process an application for Pension Credit has gone from 25 working days to 52 working days. You might get Pension Credit by the end of January, if you've not frozen to death before then.

Should be automatic. The authorities have all the details of your pension anyway.

When I was dealing with the council for my Dads care they not only knew the details of his state pension they knew down to the penny how much his private pension was so clearly that information is already shared.

Brighton Sky Blue · Monday at 11:35 AM

MalcSB said:
I think there’s a lot on here who aren’t either

Or indeed nationally.

MalcSB · Monday at 11:38 AM

chiefdave said:
Should be automatic. The authorities have all the details of your pension anyway.

When I was dealing with the council for my Dads care they not only knew the details of his state pension they knew down to the penny how much his private pension was so clearly that information is already shared.

They just like to put as many barriers up to prevent people claiming their entitlements. Expected behaviours from the Tories, expected better from Labour.

Sky_Blue_Dreamer · Monday at 7:41 PM

Nick said:
My daughter is aiming for a degree apprenticeship. They actually make sense in that it's working and getting everything else paid for while getting experience on the job.

I actually think apprenticeships are a great route into a job, for things like trades then they should start earlier for kids who have no interest in academic stuff and just want to learn a trade. In year 11 for example, get the kids learning about being a gas engineer or an electrician rather than pointless shite.

I agree on the whole about getting the final years started on trades, but there has to also still be core subjects as well, Maths, English and probably some form of science.

MalcSB · 2024-11-19T09:30:12+0000

Nick said:
My daughter is aiming for a degree apprenticeship. They actually make sense in that it's working and getting everything else paid for while getting experience on the job.

I actually think apprenticeships are a great route into a job, for things like trades then they should start earlier for kids who have no interest in academic stuff and just want to learn a trade. In year 11 for example, get the kids learning about being a gas engineer or an electrician rather than pointless shite.

Didn’t they used to call things like that HNCs? Doing a job with day/ evening or block release course.

Second paragraph sounds a bit like the old high school/ secondary modern schools. I think they often did more practical subjects - bricklaying, metalwork etc.

shmmeee · 2024-11-19T09:32:47+0000

MalcSB said:
Didn’t they used to call things like that HNCs? Doing a job with day/ evening or block release course.

Second paragraph sounds a bit like the old high school/ secondary modern schools. I think they often did more practical subjects - bricklaying, metalwork etc.

I got a HNC/HND with my apprenticeship so possibly. Back before vocational qual were just shite you give thick kids to fame the league table.

MalcSB · 2024-11-19T09:35:12+0000

Warning retail job cuts ‘inevitable’ after NI tax rise in Budget

Retail firms have written to the chancellor to say they cannot manage rising costs and tax bills.

www.bbc.co.uk

More decimated shopping centres.
More money laundering barbers.
More charity shops.
Increased inflation.

£25bn in additional revenues comes from working people’s pay packets, despite the government's lies.

MalcSB · 2024-11-19T09:36:50+0000

shmmeee said:
I got a HNC/HND with my apprenticeship so possibly. Back before vocational qual were just shite you give thick kids to fame the league table.

When it was Lanchester Poly?

MalcSB · 2024-11-19T09:40:57+0000

I watched Strike: An Uncivil War on Prime recently. There definitely should be a public enquiry about Orgreave. Trouble is that most of the establishment protagonists will be beyond punishment by now.

chiefdave · 2024-11-19T10:06:02+0000

MalcSB said:
I watched Strike: An Uncivil War on Prime recently. There definitely should be a public enquiry about Orgreave. Trouble is that most of the establishment protagonists will be beyond punishment by now.

Watched a couple of docs recently, seemed to be a few about as it was an anniversary. As someone who was very young at the time and only really has vague memories of their being a strike it was pretty shocking stuff.

As you say definitely needed an enquiry but we all know nothing would happen then and it certainly won't now. Would all be blamed on people who are no longer with us.

MalcSB · 2024-11-19T10:11:57+0000

chiefdave said:
Watched a couple of docs recently, seemed to be a few about as it was an anniversary. As someone who was very young at the time and only really has vague memories of their being a strike it was pretty shocking stuff.

As you say effeminately needed an enquiry but we all know nothing would happen then and it certainly won't now. Would all be blamed on people who are no longer with us.

I didn’t think I expressed myself that camply

I was appalled at the time by the obvious misuse of the police. The only escalation possible from that, had the miners been “organised” ( and it really had been a riot) would have been to have brought the army in as per Northern Ireland.

The bare faced lies told by the senior police and politicians were disgusting.

I think the film closed by saying the Tories had turned down an enquiry in 2016.

chiefdave · 2024-11-19T10:58:57+0000

MalcSB said:
Warning retail job cuts ‘inevitable’ after NI tax rise in Budget

Retail firms have written to the chancellor to say they cannot manage rising costs and tax bills.

www.bbc.co.uk

More decimated shopping centres.
More money laundering barbers.
More charity shops.
Increased inflation.

£25bn in additional revenues comes from working people’s pay packets, despite the government's lies.

A quick look at the companies complaining this is unaffordable for them:

Tesco - "The UK's biggest supermarket chain said pre-tax profits hit £2.3bn, up from £882m"
Greggs - "Greggs has posted booming profits and sales as market share reached an all-time high”
Next - "Next profits hit a record high in its last financial year"

I'm sure there are employers who will suffer but this is just big companies preparing to push prices up to line their own pockets while claiming they aren't profiteering.

Tesco is a prime example. Food inflation has been a huge problem and they've pushed the blame onto covid, global conditions and other things they claim to have no control over while their profits have gone through the roof.

Nick · 2024-11-19T11:06:39+0000

chiefdave said:
A quick look at the companies complaining this is unaffordable for them:

Tesco - "The UK's biggest supermarket chain said pre-tax profits hit £2.3bn, up from £882m"
Greggs - "Greggs has posted booming profits and sales as market share reached an all-time high”
Next - "Next profits hit a record high in its last financial year"

I'm sure there are employers who will suffer but this is just big companies preparing to push prices up to line their own pockets while claiming they aren't profiteering.

Tesco is a prime example. Food inflation has been a huge problem and they've pushed the blame onto covid, global conditions and other things they claim to have no control over while their profits have gone through the roof.

Is it just that the big companies get heard when they moan?

Sbarcher · 2024-11-19T11:19:47+0000

Tories (or Reform) need only to ask the "Trump" question at next election.
Are you better off now than 5 years ago.

At the moment not looking good, but no doubt the aim from Starmer is to swallow the bitter pill now and have the sugar coated one in 3-4 years time.

shmmeee · 2024-11-19T11:31:37+0000

Sbarcher said:
Tories (or Reform) need only to ask the "Trump" question at next election.
Are you better off now than 5 years ago.

At the moment not looking good, but no doubt the aim from Starmer is to swallow the bitter pill now and have the sugar coated one in 3-4 years time.

Needs to start doing things that will move the needle soon the later he leaves it the more radical he’ll have to be to have any impact. Still delaying my infrastructure and no clear changes to planning don’t bode well for his growth engine.

CCFCSteve · 2024-11-19T13:05:25+0000

shmmeee said:
Needs to start doing things that will move the needle soon the later he leaves it the more radical he’ll have to be to have any impact. Still delaying my infrastructure and no clear changes to planning don’t bode well for his growth engine.

Got things the wrong way round. Needed to focus on growth first, if successful then tax revenues rise anyway which may have mitigated some of the requirements to increase some taxes. Instead implemented tax rises first which are likely to suppress growth, especially employer NIC*

Also as has been said numerous times before, it was a massive error to try to talk down the economy following the election, which sucked all the post election momentum out of it. Shouldve just focussed on lack of public services investment etc under the Tories messaging and the requirement to fix this which will cost everyone unless we improve growth and productivity

*this was only required due to silly pre election promise not to increase main tax generators

shmmeee · 2024-11-19T13:07:23+0000

CCFCSteve said:
Got things the wrong way round. Needed to focus on growth first, if successful then tax revenues rise anyway which may have mitigated some of the requirements to increase some taxes. Instead implemented tax rises first which are likely to suppress growth, especially employer NIC*

Also as has been said numerous times before, it was a massive error to try to talk down the economy following the election, which sucked all the post election momentum out of it. Shouldve just focussed on lack of public services investment etc under the Tories messaging and the requirement to fix this which will cost everyone unless we improve growth and productivity

*this was only required due to silly pre election promise not to increase main tax generators

Id argue there was no way not to do something drastic thanks to how the Tories had spent years giving cash away and promising no spending.

I’m still of the belief that electorally if you get years 2-5 right year 1 is forgotten. But that’s a big if.

CCFCSteve · 2024-11-19T13:14:49+0000

shmmeee said:
Id argue there was no way not to do something drastic thanks to how the Tories had spent years giving cash away and promising no spending.

I’m still of the belief that electorally if you get years 2-5 right year 1 is forgotten. But that’s a big if.

I haven’t got a major issue with what’s been done ie increasing taxes to pay for better public services. More the way, timing and messaging. If there’s an improvement in the next five years, as you say, all will be forgotten. If growth drops, productivity doesn’t improve people will have to pay even more tax though.

No need to talk economy down either, just say if we all want better public services, we’ve all got to pay for it somehow. I’d have also reminded big business that the government paid tens of billions in furlough to keep them all afloat during Covid, didn’t fit with messaging/narrative to blame Tories though, another error.

fernandopartridge · 2024-11-19T13:28:12+0000

CCFCSteve said:
Got things the wrong way round. Needed to focus on growth first, if successful then tax revenues rise anyway which may have mitigated some of the requirements to increase some taxes. Instead implemented tax rises first which are likely to suppress growth, especially employer NIC*

Also as has been said numerous times before, it was a massive error to try to talk down the economy following the election, which sucked all the post election momentum out of it. Shouldve just focussed on lack of public services investment etc under the Tories messaging and the requirement to fix this which will cost everyone unless we improve growth and productivity

*this was only required due to silly pre election promise not to increase main tax generators

Not usual for me but I agree with this completely. I said they'd backed themselves into a corner and here we are, they continue to do it.

chiefdave · 2024-11-19T13:33:51+0000

They could have whacked the 2p back on NI that the previous government put on. Shot themselves in the foot promising no tax increases but even then they could have, with ONS backing, used the 'black hole' as an excuse. Say it was totally uncosted and they have no choice.

Sure people would be mad but as has been said if it works out we're only in year one. It would be long forgotten as long as people feel better off when the next election comes around.

Do you want to discuss boring politics? (12 Viewers)

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