Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Does this work to embed posts?


Badenoch has never met a grooming gang survivor.

Edit: shame, embedding tweets in SBT was so useful. @Nick is it possible at all?
It is embedded
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Presumably WFH doesn’t help with feelings of isolation either.

used to have so much fun at work when I was younger, all those centuries ago. Majority of social life built around it.
I actually found WFH had the opposite impact for me. Don't think I'm alone in that as one of the positives people put forward for WFH is work life balance which is just a corporate speak way of saying you have time to do other stuff.

WFH I finished on time more often that not and as I was already at home I could be ready to go so once the clock hit 5pm I could be out the door and off to interact with other people. Now I'm back in the office I'm lucky to get home at 7pm and as I need to be up early to commute I really need to be winding down by 10pm. Doesn't leave much time for anything else.

Commutes generally have got longer, both in distance and time, and that has an impact. It also means that unlike when I started work the people you work with probably live all over the place rather than all being local. Much less interest in going out after work when you leave an hour or more away.

Another thing I think that impacts on this is there's a lot more small businesses now. Finding people you get on with and have common interests with is pretty easy when your company employs hundreds, when there's under 10 people not so much.

The other thing that I suspect massively impacts isolation is how families are different now. Divorce rates are through the roof, you've got a lot of middle aged people now living on their own. Add in an increasing number of people electing not to have kids and you can end up with a lot of people who essentially have very little family, or even none at all.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member

I really hope this works, perhaps proceeds could be used to offset accommodation costs and reduce the burden on the UK taxpayer.

I bet the Chinese are quaking in their little boots, bless them.
24 Hours In Police Custody this week focused on immigration. Watching that there's one very obvious thing that needs to happen, a clamp down on social media. They visited Albania and kids there are being targeted on social media with post after post telling them about a wonderful life in the UK where they will earn so much they will be driving round in fancy cars and living in nice apartments.

The people consuming that media then pay thousands to get here only to find they are now in debt to drug gangs and have no choice other than to work for them.

One of the most bizarre parts of the show was people in immigration detention centres saying they had made multiple requests to the Home Office to be returned to Albania but were still stuck here.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
24 Hours In Police Custody this week focused on immigration. Watching that there's one very obvious thing that needs to happen, a clamp down on social media. They visited Albania and kids there are being targeted on social media with post after post telling them about a wonderful life in the UK where they will earn so much they will be driving round in fancy cars and living in nice apartments.

The people consuming that media then pay thousands to get here only to find they are now in debt to drug gangs and have no choice other than to work for them.

One of the most bizarre parts of the show was people in immigration detention centres saying they had made multiple requests to the Home Office to be returned to Albania but were still stuck here.
Same in prison people desperate to return home but the home office dragging their feet
Now it maybe they think they’ll be freed or the prisons are easier (probably not from Russia) but it does strike me as strange
They do leave eventually
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
I actually found WFH had the opposite impact for me. Don't think I'm alone in that as one of the positives people put forward for WFH is work life balance which is just a corporate speak way of saying you have time to do other stuff.

WFH I finished on time more often that not and as I was already at home I could be ready to go so once the clock hit 5pm I could be out the door and off to interact with other people. Now I'm back in the office I'm lucky to get home at 7pm and as I need to be up early to commute I really need to be winding down by 10pm. Doesn't leave much time for anything else.

Commutes generally have got longer, both in distance and time, and that has an impact. It also means that unlike when I started work the people you work with probably live all over the place rather than all being local. Much less interest in going out after work when you leave an hour or more away.

Another thing I think that impacts on this is there's a lot more small businesses now. Finding people you get on with and have common interests with is pretty easy when your company employs hundreds, when there's under 10 people not so much.

The other thing that I suspect massively impacts isolation is how families are different now. Divorce rates are through the roof, you've got a lot of middle aged people now living on their own. Add in an increasing number of people electing not to have kids and you can end up with a lot of people who essentially have very little family, or even none at all.
A lot of truth in that.
 

Boicey

Well-Known Member
Have any of you seen the potholer54 channel on YouTube?
Very science based, originally debunking conspiracy theorists and religious fanatics, now probably more around climate.
Would be interested what you think.

Very interesting in my opinion although his comments are a lunatic magnet😉
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
I’m sorry, lifetime habits die hard.
That being the case, why does HMRC take thousands off me every year?
@shmmeee tells me it’s collectivism. You seem to plough a lonely furrow implying it’s unnecessary. You have my support to be the next Chancellor of the Exchequer.

Taxes destroy money, spending creates it is FPs basic hypothesis as I understand it. You can’t just keep creating money or you’ll have inflation (assuming no excess productivity in the economy), so you use taxes to control inflation under MMT (it’s been a while so please correct me FP).
 

Nick

Administrator
I actually found WFH had the opposite impact for me. Don't think I'm alone in that as one of the positives people put forward for WFH is work life balance which is just a corporate speak way of saying you have time to do other stuff.

I WFH 4 days a week now and 1 in the office. I get more work done, I save money and time on travel.

Yeah there's increased costs when it comes electric but I am still saving money.

I don't feel isolated, I don't really like people bothering me while I try to work. Still have teams meetings every day and then one day a week have to do the socialising stuff.

It's perfect! Especially as there's more flexibility on when I work as long as shit gets done!
 

SBAndy

Well-Known Member
I WFH 4 days a week now and 1 in the office. I get more work done, I save money and time on travel.

Yeah there's increased costs when it comes electric but I am still saving money.

I don't feel isolated, I don't really like people bothering me while I try to work. Still have teams meetings every day and then one day a week have to do the socialising stuff.

It's perfect! Especially as there's more flexibility on when I work as long as shit gets done!

We’ve just had it announced that we’re moving from 1.5 days a week in the office (broken down as 2 days in week 1, 1 day in week 2) to 2 days every week. Pain in the arse. Means I’m out from 7:20am-6pm which is pretty much the wake time of our 7 month old.

What’s more is that the reason for this is to ‘enhance collaboration’. Fair enough. Only, what happens if I’m off on one of the days I’m expected to be in the office? Oh yeah, I have to go in on another day when none of my team are in to make it up. It’s bonkers, I’ve told them it’s bonkers, and I want to find out who is laying down this daft policy and change it.
 

Nick

Administrator
We’ve just had it announced that we’re moving from 1.5 days a week in the office (broken down as 2 days in week 1, 1 day in week 2) to 2 days every week. Pain in the arse. Means I’m out from 7:20am-6pm which is pretty much the wake time of our 7 month old.

What’s more is that the reason for this is to ‘enhance collaboration’. Fair enough. Only, what happens if I’m off on one of the days I’m expected to be in the office? Oh yeah, I have to go in on another day when none of my team are in to make it up. It’s bonkers, I’ve told them it’s bonkers, and I want to find out who is laying down this daft policy and change it.

Depending on your job it's just as easy to collaborate with teams now anyway?

I swear some places don't like WFH because they want to be more in control of people
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
I WFH 4 days a week now and 1 in the office. I get more work done, I save money and time on travel.

Yeah there's increased costs when it comes electric but I am still saving money.

I don't feel isolated, I don't really like people bothering me while I try to work. Still have teams meetings every day and then one day a week have to do the socialising stuff.

It's perfect! Especially as there's more flexibility on when I work as long as shit gets done!
Same
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Especially as there's more flexibility on when I work as long as shit gets done!
I got way more done, in much less time, working from home than I do being back in the office. And I suspect that is why a lot of managers / company owners don't like it. They're more concerned with getting more hours out of you and unpaid overtime than they are on the work actually being done or the quality of that work.
We’ve just had it announced that we’re moving from 1.5 days a week in the office (broken down as 2 days in week 1, 1 day in week 2) to 2 days every week. Pain in the arse. Means I’m out from 7:20am-6pm which is pretty much the wake time of our 7 month old.
Will no doubt lead to people leaving and then the people who implemented it will be sat around scratching there heads trying to work out why people are quitting!
I swear some places don't like WFH because they want to be more in control of people
Its 100% this, an absolute paranoia that someone is getting away from something but if you're a vaguely competent boss you know if someone is cracking on with their work or taking the piss.

The whole work culture in this country is fucked. More concerned with making people work long hours, not get proper breaks, turn up when they're sick, than actually getting things done and to a decent standard.

If you look into presenteeism you find research that tell you the cost to the economy is double the cost of people being off sick. People are being pressured to drag themselves into the office when it actually causes productivity to decrease.

We need a big culture change to combat productivity issues but can't see it happening anytime soon when you can show those in charge all the evidence in the world and they'll just ignore it.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
I stand by the idea that people who prefer working in office, have work as their entire life.

those who tend to prefer wfh have lots going on in their life outside of their job and don’t want to make it their entire life
If you choose to make work your entire life that's your own choice. I've been there and from my experience it doesn't lead to pay rises or promotions. You're just working yourself into the ground for someone else's benefit.

The problem becomes when its becomes an expected thing and people are being pressured into it or labelled lazy if they dont' do it.
 

Nick

Administrator
I got way more done, in much less time, working from home than I do being back in the office. And I suspect that is why a lot of managers / company owners don't like it. They're more concerned with getting more hours out of you and unpaid overtime than they are on the work actually being done or the quality of that work.

Will no doubt lead to people leaving and then the people who implemented it will be sat around scratching there heads trying to work out why people are quitting!

Its 100% this, an absolute paranoia that someone is getting away from something but if you're a vaguely competent boss you know if someone is cracking on with their work or taking the piss.

The whole work culture in this country is fucked. More concerned with making people work long hours, not get proper breaks, turn up when they're sick, than actually getting things done and to a decent standard.

If you look into presenteeism you find research that tell you the cost to the economy is double the cost of people being off sick. People are being pressured to drag themselves into the office when it actually causes productivity to decrease.

We need a big culture change to combat productivity issues but can't see it happening anytime soon when you can show those in charge all the evidence in the world and they'll just ignore it.

Yep. Sometimes I struggle to get motivated and in my last job there was no work from home. I'd be forced to be in the office every day so I'd have to try and force myself to get things done.

Now I can have a break for a bit in the day and then just login about 6 when I work best and get stuff done.

In my last job there was no work from home because the boss was a bit of a control freak and wanted to physically see what everybody was doing. However he mistook people being at their desks all day as productive.
 

Ccfcisparks

Well-Known Member
If you choose to make work your entire life that's your own choice. I've been there and from my experience it doesn't lead to pay rises or promotions. You're just working yourself into the ground for someone else's benefit.

The problem becomes when its becomes an expected thing and people are being pressured into it or labelled lazy if they dont' do it.
Yep exactly.

I have a manager who works form 7am-9pm, even though contracted hours are 7.5.

That expectation slowly creeps onto others. It’s very tough keeping boundaries in that situation
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
However he mistook people being at their desks all day as productive.
THIS!!!

People are sat in this office 10 hours plus a day doing seemingly fuck all. I work my hours and I'm consistently doing 40 - 50% of the tickets out of a team of 8 but I know perfectly well if I started leaving on time every day I'd get shit for it and be seen as the lazy one.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
I was at the extreme end of WFH in my old job. I was 100% WFH, increasingly less visits to client sites and my head office was 3 hour plus drive each way so I literally hadn't visited in years

tbh if I hadn't been at that extreme I don't think I would have taken an office based job. I'm in the office 5 days a week now and the impact on life outside of work is huge

you don't realise how many little jobs around the house you get done in your lunch hour when you're at home. now my weekends are spent cleaning, washing etc. all stuff that I'd have previously got done in the week

and evenings are complete non starters, on a good day I 'only' lose about 2.5 hours of my day compared to WFH
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
We’ve just had it announced that we’re moving from 1.5 days a week in the office (broken down as 2 days in week 1, 1 day in week 2) to 2 days every week. Pain in the arse. Means I’m out from 7:20am-6pm which is pretty much the wake time of our 7 month old.

What’s more is that the reason for this is to ‘enhance collaboration’. Fair enough. Only, what happens if I’m off on one of the days I’m expected to be in the office? Oh yeah, I have to go in on another day when none of my team are in to make it up. It’s bonkers, I’ve told them it’s bonkers, and I want to find out who is laying down this daft policy and change it.
Might it be whoever is paying you wages?
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
If you choose to make work your entire life that's your own choice. I've been there and from my experience it doesn't lead to pay rises or promotions. You're just working yourself into the ground for someone else's benefit.

The problem becomes when its becomes an expected thing and people are being pressured into it or labelled lazy if they dont' do it.
As a counterbalance, it did lead to pay rises and promotions for me.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
If you choose to make work your entire life that's your own choice. I've been there and from my experience it doesn't lead to pay rises or promotions. You're just working yourself into the ground for someone else's benefit.

The problem becomes when its becomes an expected thing and people are being pressured into it or labelled lazy if they dont' do it.
As a counterbalance, it did lead to pay rises and promotions for me.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Yep. Sometimes I struggle to get motivated and in my last job there was no work from home. I'd be forced to be in the office every day so I'd have to try and force myself to get things done.

Now I can have a break for a bit in the day and then just login about 6 when I work best and get stuff done.

In my last job there was no work from home because the boss was a bit of a control freak and wanted to physically see what everybody was doing. However he mistook people being at their desks all day as productive.

This is the big one for me. My productivity is streaky as fuck. Some days I’ll just not be working. Some I’m locked in for ten hours on an issue. Sometimes I only want to work late at night (always been like this since uni).
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
I actually found WFH had the opposite impact for me. Don't think I'm alone in that as one of the positives people put forward for WFH is work life balance which is just a corporate speak way of saying you have time to do other stuff.

WFH I finished on time more often that not and as I was already at home I could be ready to go so once the clock hit 5pm I could be out the door and off to interact with other people. Now I'm back in the office I'm lucky to get home at 7pm and as I need to be up early to commute I really need to be winding down by 10pm. Doesn't leave much time for anything else.

Commutes generally have got longer, both in distance and time, and that has an impact. It also means that unlike when I started work the people you work with probably live all over the place rather than all being local. Much less interest in going out after work when you leave an hour or more away.

Another thing I think that impacts on this is there's a lot more small businesses now. Finding people you get on with and have common interests with is pretty easy when your company employs hundreds, when there's under 10 people not so much.

The other thing that I suspect massively impacts isolation is how families are different now. Divorce rates are through the roof, you've got a lot of middle aged people now living on their own. Add in an increasing number of people electing not to have kids and you can end up with a lot of people who essentially have very little family, or even none at all.

I agree with you, I think WFH has blurred the lines a bit too much where there is now an implied expectancy (or maybe it is just perception) that all hours are potentially work hours. I also don't think employers fulfil any duty of care on employees working from home.
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
As a counterbalance, it did lead to pay rises and promotions for me.
Out of interest when was this? I've found working in IT this has completely changed in the last 15 or so years.

Overtime / TOIL, benefits, bonuses, pay rises (unless you move job) all out of the window in that period in favour of pressuring you into being sat in front of a screen for as many hours as possible regardless of if its having an impact on productivity or not.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
Out of interest when was this? I've found working in IT this has completely changed in the last 15 or so years.

Overtime / TOIL, benefits, bonuses, pay rises (unless you move job) all out of the window in that period in favour of pressuring you into being sat in front of a screen for as many hours as possible regardless of if its having an impact on productivity or not.
My job was more related to human beings not machines and was one where personality and human interaction was key. I started work in 1972 and retired in 2021. I have found retirement hard as I miss the interaction with people and the intellectual challenge of what I did. It’s probably a boomer thing, whereas younger generations seem to avoid contact with other humans wherever possible. Misspent youth on online gaming channel rather than playing real life pool in a pub I suppose.

I know my view is outdated, but it astonishes me that something bought in as a temporary expedient in a certain set of circumstance has become seen as a fundamental right. I do feel strongly that those paid LWA who never work in London should no longer receive it. Like Elton John and the WFA, they don’t actually need it and, surely, aren’t technically eligible for it.

PS your avatar is quite scary on close examination
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
My job was more related to human beings not machines and was one where personality and human interaction was key. I started work in 1972 and retired in 2021. I have found retirement hard as I miss the interaction with people and the intellectual challenge of what I did. It’s probably a boomer thing, whereas younger generations seem to avoid contact with other humans wherever possible. Misspent youth on online gaming channel rather than playing real life pool in a pub I suppose.

I know my view is outdated, but it astonishes me that something bought in as a temporary expedient in a certain set of circumstance has become seen as a fundamental right. I do feel strongly that those paid LWA who never work in London should no longer receive it. Like Elton John and the WFA, they don’t actually need it and, surely, aren’t technically eligible for it.

PS your avatar is quite scary on close examination

Agree on the LWA. TBH I’ve never socialised at work, don’t see the point. I see my mates more now I’m always in. The real problem is most people would rather stay in than go out for entertainment. Netflix over the movies, game night or a few beers in the garden pub with mates rather than the pub.

We keep destroying real life meeting places (church, clubs, pubs) and replacing them with the internet or fuck all.
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
I’m sorry, lifetime habits die hard.
That being the case, why does HMRC take thousands off me every year?
@shmmeee tells me it’s collectivism. You seem to plough a lonely furrow implying it’s unnecessary. You have my support to be the next Chancellor of the Exchequer.
It sounds like it's supposed to control inflation, what do they keep getting wrong?
 

wingy

Well-Known Member
My job was more related to human beings not machines and was one where personality and human interaction was key. I started work in 1972 and retired in 2021. I have found retirement hard as I miss the interaction with people and the intellectual challenge of what I did. It’s probably a boomer thing, whereas younger generations seem to avoid contact with other humans wherever possible. Misspent youth on online gaming channel rather than playing real life pool in a pub I suppose.

I know my view is outdated, but it astonishes me that something bought in as a temporary expedient in a certain set of circumstance has become seen as a fundamental right. I do feel strongly that those paid LWA who never work in London should no longer receive it. Like Elton John and the WFA, they don’t actually need it and, surely, aren’t technically eligible for it.

PS your avatar is quite scary on close examination
What form of closure did you go for Malc, a zip or is it glue these days?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
My job was more related to human beings not machines and was one where personality and human interaction was key. I started work in 1972 and retired in 2021. I have found retirement hard as I miss the interaction with people and the intellectual challenge of what I did. It’s probably a boomer thing, whereas younger generations seem to avoid contact with other humans wherever possible. Misspent youth on online gaming channel rather than playing real life pool in a pub I suppose.

I know my view is outdated, but it astonishes me that something bought in as a temporary expedient in a certain set of circumstance has become seen as a fundamental right. I do feel strongly that those paid LWA who never work in London should no longer receive it. Like Elton John and the WFA, they don’t actually need it and, surely, aren’t technically eligible for it.

PS your avatar is quite scary on close examination
The avatar is from Severance on AppleTV which, given the current topic, I would definitely recommend watching.

I think one key difference is how technology has changed many jobs. When I started my job, depending on the size company I was working for, I would either spend my days physically going from desk to desk, or site to site, to deal with actual human beings. Have a chat, fix their issue, it was great. But as technology advanced those in charge realised it was much more efficient to have you sat in an office somewhere doing everything remotely. There was years where there was a weird limbo state of being able to do things remotely but occasional site visits which were more 'to be seen' than out of necessity but post lockdown even that has been knocked on the head.

So the reality is I spend hours in the car to drive to a freezing cold office to sit at a small desk staring at a screen surrounded by noise and distraction. Or I work from home in the warm, with a comfortable setup that allows me to work much more efficiently. And I save several hours a day not having to commute.

Not lost of me that as that has happened the job has become far less enjoyable and far more stressful. But we're not going back to that so if I could work 3 or 4 days a week at home I'd jump at the chance.
Agree on the LWA. TBH I’ve never socialised at work, don’t see the point. I see my mates more now I’m always in. The real problem is most people would rather stay in than go out for entertainment. Netflix over the movies, game night or a few beers in the garden pub with mates rather than the pub.

We keep destroying real life meeting places (church, clubs, pubs) and replacing them with the internet or fuck all.
Part of the problem is that going out is largely a shit experience. Is going to the cinema a better night than watching the movie at home? We've all got massive HD screens now so the idea of going out and paying for expensive food and drink and having the movie ruined by people chatting and fucking around on their phones isn't really appealing. The number of drinkers is declining generation after generation and the cost of going to the pub against having a few at home is mad.

Spot on saying the meeting places are going and nothing is coming to take their place. We've often spoken about cafe culture in this country but we're shit at it. Go to European countries and you'll see people head out straight after work for affordable meals and a couple of drinks. Just doesn't happen here.
 

Users who are viewing this thread

Top