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Do you want to discuss boring politics? (27 Viewers)

  • Thread starter mrtrench
  • Start date Jun 14, 2020
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MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,126
PVA said:
Tricky one for Malc this!
Click to expand...

Not tricky. looks like a good start, keep the pace up and embarrass other parties. reset the performance bar.Just a shame that they want set a target so that we could measure how they are doing compared to an ambition. Seem to have no problem setting targets for the NHS.
 
Reactions: PVA

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,127
Tricky one for @shmmeee . More money kept in working person's pocket.

Petition: Raise the standard tax-free Personal Allowance to £45,000

The Personal Allowance is the amount of income a person can get before they pay tax. It stands at £12,570 in 2024. We would like the standard Personal Allowance raised to what we think is a more realistic figure of £45,000.
petition.parliament.uk
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,128
MalcSB said:
Go tell people whose houses have been devastated by floods and sewage and who have lost everything of sentimental value that it is only a little bit of water.
Click to expand...

Well, in comparison to the natural disasters of other countries it is a little bit of water.

Tragic as it is for those people, and it must be absolutely horrendous, it's really not comparable to the things that happen in those countries in that hilarious Facebook meme is it?
 

robbiekeane

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,129
MalcSB said:
Tricky one for @shmmeee . More money kept in working person's pocket.

Petition: Raise the standard tax-free Personal Allowance to £45,000

The Personal Allowance is the amount of income a person can get before they pay tax. It stands at £12,570 in 2024. We would like the standard Personal Allowance raised to what we think is a more realistic figure of £45,000.
petition.parliament.uk
Click to expand...
lmao is that a serious petition
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,130
MalcSB said:
Tricky one for @shmmeee . More money kept in working person's pocket.

Petition: Raise the standard tax-free Personal Allowance to £45,000

The Personal Allowance is the amount of income a person can get before they pay tax. It stands at £12,570 in 2024. We would like the standard Personal Allowance raised to what we think is a more realistic figure of £45,000.
petition.parliament.uk
Click to expand...

I saw this floating around online and wondered how long before it ended up on here
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,131
MalcSB said:
That as soon as there is any form of disaster in those countries / continents there are similar appeals to the people of the UK. The only offer of aid I recall was by Idi Amin of Uganda who, iirc, offered bananas to the UK and sent hardworking Ugandan Asians.

In addition they receive billions of pounds in Foreign Aid that could be beneficially spent in this country. On flood defences, dredging waterways etc. Pot holes even.
Click to expand...
I’m not sure why you’re conflating private charitable donations (which always flow from the wealthy to the poor) with state foreign aid which - aside from often being a morally decent thing - is often conditional and serves as a soft power lever for the British government to pull.

Despite your spirited attempts at late night internet research (a Syrian space program? Really?) this is just a copy-paste Facebook meme aimed at generating resentment from British people towards poor (and mostly non-white) foreign people. I would suggest if these people are so objectionable to you, then cutting our foreign aid to them might actually end up with more of them wanting to settle in our suddenly well-funded country.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,132
MalcSB said:
Tricky one for @shmmeee . More money kept in working person's pocket.

Petition: Raise the standard tax-free Personal Allowance to £45,000

The Personal Allowance is the amount of income a person can get before they pay tax. It stands at £12,570 in 2024. We would like the standard Personal Allowance raised to what we think is a more realistic figure of £45,000.
petition.parliament.uk
Click to expand...

We’ve done this argument. Just search the thread at this point.

Though you seem to think these petitions mean something. So I assume you want us to rejoin the EU as that’s the one that’s had the most signatures.
 

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,133
SBT said:
I’m not sure why you’re conflating private charitable donations (which always flow from the wealthy to the poor) with state foreign aid which - aside from often being a morally decent thing - is often conditional and serves as a soft power lever for the British government to pull.
Despite your spirited attempts at late night internet research (a Syrian space program? Really?) this is just a copy-paste Facebook meme aimed at generating resentment from British people towards poor (and mostly non-white) foreign people. I would suggest if these people are so objectionable to you, then cutting our foreign aid to them might actually end up with more of them wanting to settle in our suddenly well-funded country.
Click to expand...
You can’t even be bothered to do some day time internet research even when pointed in a direction which might help you. Having received it it might have been expected that they could have coped with problems using some of those funds without the need to immediately seek private charitable donations. That of course would be assuming that the money hasn't been squandered on expensive programs or embezzled.

To repeat your comment - a Syrian space program, really. Yes, see below.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/syria-creates-space-agency-despite-war/

My point about foreign aid is that some countries receiving it really don’t need it if they are capable of funding space and / or nuclear weapons programs. A bit like Elton John and the WFA.

On the other hand, we aren’t spending enough on flood defences or prevention. Or children’s breakfasts at school.

So the money could be better spent at home.

Soft levers! Don’t soft levers bend rendering them pretty ineffective?

When was the last time foreign aid earned the UK any respect or favours?

Your turn to prove your point.
 
Last edited: Jan 20, 2025
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,134
MalcSB said:
You can’t even be bothered to do some day time internet research even when pointed in a direction which might help you.

https://www.timesofisrael.com/syria-creates-space-agency-despite-war/

My point about foreign aid is that some countries receiving it really don’t need it if they are capable of funding space and / or nuclear weapons programs. A bit like Elton John and the WFA.

On the other hand, we aren’t spending enough on flood defences or prevention. Or children’s breakfasts at school.

So the money could be better spent at home.
Click to expand...
Yes thank you Malcolm, I saw the link the first time. If you truly believe that Syria still has a functioning space program then I won't stand in your way, but it still doesn't explain why you lumped them in with Afghanistan and every country in Africa.

The idea that Britain is struggling to pay for flood defences because of its foreign aid budget doesn't really (ahem) hold water I'm afraid. But you go and have a good laugh at Afghanistan in the meantime.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,135
MalcSB said:
When was the last time foreign aid earned the UK any respect or favours?
Click to expand...

In India most “aid” is loans and equity investments in the private sector that deliver a return:

UK aid to India - ICAI

icai.independent.gov.uk

In Syria it’s mostly getting kids back into school and is humanitarian aid after the war. It’s in our interest to not let ISIS or other groups use the humanitarian crisis as a way to gain more power.

The UK’s humanitarian support to Syria - ICAI

icai.independent.gov.uk
 
Reactions: SBT and Sky Blue Pete

Grendel

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,136
SBT said:
Yes thank you Malcolm, I saw the link the first time. If you truly believe that Syria still has a functioning space program then I won't stand in your way, but it still doesn't explain why you lumped them in with Afghanistan and every country in Africa.

The idea that Britain is struggling to pay for flood defences because of its foreign aid budget doesn't really (ahem) hold water I'm afraid. But you go and have a good laugh at Afghanistan in the meantime.
Click to expand...

We either have a £22billion black hole or we don't
 
Reactions: MalcSB

MalcSB

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,137
SBT said:
Yes thank you Malcolm, I saw the link the first time. If you truly believe that Syria still has a functioning space program then I won't stand in your way, but it still doesn't explain why you lumped them in with Afghanistan and every country in Africa.

The idea that Britain is struggling to pay for flood defences because of its foreign aid budget doesn't really (ahem) hold water I'm afraid. But you go and have a good laugh at Afghanistan in the meantime.
Click to expand...
FFS I didn’t lump them in.

Very good joke by the way. However, every little would help.

Im not laughing at Afghanistan or any of the countries mentioned.
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,138
MalcSB said:
That as soon as there is any form of disaster in those countries / continents there are similar appeals to the people of the UK. The only offer of aid I recall was by Idi Amin of Uganda who, iirc, offered bananas to the UK and sent hardworking Ugandan Asians.

In addition they receive billions of pounds in Foreign Aid that could be beneficially spent in this country. On flood defences, dredging waterways etc. Pot holes even.
Click to expand...

"Sent hardworking Ugandan Asians" lol - Britain offered ugandan asians a refuge from a tyrant. Come on Malc you are much better than this.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,139
“Dredging waterways”

One of those signs someone has got their information from a political and not scientific source. Dredging makes flooding worse, it’s a tool for increasing navigability mostly. You want to hold and slow water during a flood not speed it up.

Floods and dredging: explaining the Environment Agency’s approach – Creating a better place

News and updates from the Environment Agency
environmentagency.blog.gov.uk
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,140
SBT said:
Yes thank you Malcolm, I saw the link the first time. If you truly believe that Syria still has a functioning space program then I won't stand in your way, but it still doesn't explain why you lumped them in with Afghanistan and every country in Africa.

The idea that Britain is struggling to pay for flood defences because of its foreign aid budget doesn't really (ahem) hold water I'm afraid. But you go and have a good laugh at Afghanistan in the meantime.
Click to expand...
Yep I’m really annoyed at this argument and I’m just as angry at the labour government for not getting on the front foot and explaining how government spending works

There are amounts that have to be paid and then there are discretionary amounts that are choices

Rather than going round in circles nail them and manage the discussion
Get on the front foot over foreign aid and why it’s more important than blah
Manage the discussion around deportation and how much it costs or home office costs for managing claims against border guards
Show the working out
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,141
shmmeee said:
In India most “aid” is loans and equity investments in the private sector that deliver a return:

UK aid to India - ICAI

icai.independent.gov.uk

In Syria it’s mostly getting kids back into school and is humanitarian aid after the war. It’s in our interest to not let ISIS or other groups use the humanitarian crisis as a way to gain more power.

The UK’s humanitarian support to Syria - ICAI

icai.independent.gov.uk
Click to expand...
Like this
Get on the pr wing and help them out ffs
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,142
Sky Blue Pete said:
Yep I’m really annoyed at this argument and I’m just as angry at the labour government for not getting on the front foot and explaining how government spending works

There are amounts that have to be paid and then there are discretionary amounts that are choices

Rather than going round in circles nail them and manage the discussion
Get on the front foot over foreign aid and why it’s more important than blah
Manage the discussion around deportation and how much it costs or home office costs for managing claims against border guards
Show the working out
Click to expand...

You don’t combat what’s essentially xenophobia with stats unfortunately.
 
Reactions: SBT and Sky Blue Pete

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,143
shmmeee said:
You don’t combat what’s essentially xenophobia with stats unfortunately.
Click to expand...
Maybe
I’d hope you’d push the argument from why are we supporting Syrians instead to brits to one that is
Oh I hadn’t realised we were deporting more people than ever and increasing investment in the home office to reduce the time spent waiting for a decision and this has reduced the spending on accommodation from millions to that many millions
Who are you using to stop the boats Nigel and Rupert?
how are you paying for that?
why didn’t you invest blah blah blah

Also lots more families having to leave our church cause of visa issues
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,144
MalcSB said:
FFS I didn’t lump them in.

Very good joke by the way. However, every little would help.

Im not laughing at Afghanistan or any of the countries mentioned.
Click to expand...
Of course you weren't. "Is this plea each or between them" was a comment borne out of genuine concern, I'm sure.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,145
fernandopartridge said:
"Sent hardworking Ugandan Asians" lol - Britain offered ugandan asians a refuge from a tyrant. Come on Malc you are much better than this.
Click to expand...
Unfortunately I'm not convinced he is - he seems to have found his level
 
C

CovValleyBoy

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,146
Malc the echo is deafening.. Blackburn Away is much more important. That is one you can win.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,147
Some good news. At least the families won’t be dragged through a court process now.

Axel Rudakubana: 'A total disgrace' that Radukabana could buy a knife on Amazon aged 17 despite conviction, says Cooper

Home Secretary Yvette Cooper says the Southport killer, Axel Radukabana, admitted carrying a knife 10 times before his deadly attacks.
www.bbc.co.uk
 
Reactions: duffer and CCFCSteve

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 20, 2025
  • #48,148
shmmeee said:
Some good news. At least the families won’t be dragged through a court process now.

Axel Rudakubana: 'A total disgrace' that Radukabana could buy a knife on Amazon aged 17 despite conviction, says Cooper

Home Secretary Yvette Cooper says the Southport killer, Axel Radukabana, admitted carrying a knife 10 times before his deadly attacks.
www.bbc.co.uk
Click to expand...
That is good
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,149
Pathetic country in permanent decline

New Hospital Programme: plan for implementation

www.gov.uk
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,150
That’s good stuff
Hope it will happen
fernandopartridge said:
Pathetic country in permanent decline

New Hospital Programme: plan for implementation

www.gov.uk
Click to expand...
hats go
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,151
This BTW is what’s always worried me about the lefts position of “pretend people can change sex to be nice”.

Douglas Carswell:



We’re getting all the hits of the 1930s right now.

(and gender is fluid dipshit it’s a social construct, you mean sex)

The underlying ideology of the elites has always been a way to reconcile the fact that they’ve got far too much and how is that fair? Perhaps the most eye opening thing I’ve seen is this YouTube documentary from one of the Johnson & Johnson heirs:


The ultra wealthy struggle with the morality of their wealth and the only way out of it is to claim they’re genetically superior to those who aren’t wealthy. All the racism, homophobia, sexism, etc comes from a need to justify their unearned position.
 
Reactions: Sky_Blue_Dreamer and fernandopartridge

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,152
Sky Blue Pete said:
That’s good stuff
Hope it will happen

hats go
Click to expand...
It was all stuff originally planned to be complete by 2030 (which yes realistically wasn't going to happen). Now lots of it has been pushed back 10 years, which means years more of substandard healthcare settings and high maintenance costs and reduced economic boost from investment.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,153
I hate the politics in a statement ostensibly from the DHSC, Tories shouldn't do it and neither should Labour. It's pathetic. The statement makes the DHSC look stupid as it was they that published the original NHP and now they're rubbish their own plan.
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,154
fernandopartridge said:
It was all stuff originally planned to be complete by 2030 (which yes realistically wasn't going to happen). Now lots of it has been pushed back 10 years, which means years more of substandard healthcare settings and high maintenance costs and reduced economic boost from investment.
Click to expand...

It’s still on the left to do better though. And for five years now it’s shown no appetite to. I couldn’t even name a left wing person that’s come to prominence since maybe 2015?

Still a lack of charismatic leaders, still a lack of being able or prioritise to get elected, still an unwillingness to meet voters where they are. 2017 looked like the start of that then the borrowed votes from the anti Brexit vote convinced them they just needed to go further to the left to win and they blew it.

My kingdom for a serious left wing policy platform headed by a charismatic leader backed by a serious electoral strategy.
 

Sky Blue Pete

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,155
I
fernandopartridge said:
I hate the politics in a statement ostensibly from the DHSC, Tories shouldn't do it and neither should Labour. It's pathetic. The statement makes the DHSC look stupid as it was they that published the original NHP and now they're rubbish their own plan.
Click to expand...
agree completely unnecessary
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,156
shmmeee said:
It’s still on the left to do better though. And for five years now it’s shown no appetite to. I couldn’t even name a left wing person that’s come to prominence since maybe 2015?

Still a lack of charismatic leaders, still a lack of being able or prioritise to get elected, still an unwillingness to meet voters where they are. 2017 looked like the start of that then the borrowed votes from the anti Brexit vote convinced them they just needed to go further to the left to win and they blew it.

My kingdom for a serious left wing policy platform headed by a charismatic leader backed by a serious electoral strategy.
Click to expand...
I don't disagree with that but it doesn't mean I can't criticise the actions of the government. It's not even from a perspective of "what they're proposing isn't left wing enough" it's from the perspective of "it doesn't line up with their purported aims and is economically illogical"
 

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,157
fernandopartridge said:
I don't disagree with that but it doesn't mean I can't criticise the actions of the government. It's not even from a perspective of "what they're proposing isn't left wing enough" it's from the perspective of "it doesn't line up with their purported aims and is economically illogical"
Click to expand...

I don’t know the details so will defer to you on your specialist subject, it just read to me as “we should borrow to invest more now”
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,158
The message to somebody in eg Preston is loud and clear. The new hospital you were promised by the Tories and we're consulting with you on will not be built for another 15 years.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,159
fernandopartridge said:
The message to somebody in eg Preston is loud and clear. The new hospital you were promised by the Tories and we're consulting with you on will not be built for another 15 years.
Click to expand...

I mean it wouldn’t have been built at all under the Tories but yes this is a problem with reality based politics vs fantasy politics.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
  • Jan 21, 2025
  • #48,160
shmmeee said:
I mean it wouldn’t have been built at all under the Tories but yes this is a problem with reality based politics vs fantasy politics.
Click to expand...

Indeed, and fantasy will meet reality at the polls in 2029.
 
Reactions: Sky Blue Pete and Captain Dart
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