Do you want to discuss boring politics? (86 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

I agree with the latter point. It's the same whenever people protest about removal of conditions, perks etc. because they don't have them. Surely they should be supported to maintain them, and then everybody campaigns for other areas to *gain* them too!

That being said, Covid has exposed certain benefits I hadn't thought of until now of the public sector. I work both private, and public. The private job has all-but evaporated (depended on funding, and the funding is going into rescuing projects already up and running, rather than new ones) whereas the public job is, at least, secure in its hours and pay, and tbf to senior management, they've managed the crisis very well, in my view.

I don't think, however, it's appropriate for pay rises this year as it is exceptional. What that money should be used for is funding additional jobs, re-training, and other areas that will be needed going forward. By all means, in normal circumstance it's been ludicrous that public sector pay has been frozen as long as it has, but we're not in normal times. Compared to my other job, I'm glad to have one at all atm!

And yes, I appreciate it's probably naive to expect funding for public benefit going forward but... you never know!

Agree with a lot of that. Don’t agree that cutting spending power to millions of people will help the economy mind.

The worst hit industries are retail, hospitality and aviation. We need people spending money on crap, getting drunk, and going on holiday. The government aren’t going to create those jobs, it’s got to be demand led.

 

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[David O'Day]

The tories seem to have picked the thickest and worst candidate they could for Mayor of London.

 

[David O'Day]

Home Office broke equalities law with hostile environment measures

EHRC found negative consequences of Conservative policy were ‘repeatedly ignored’

www.theguardian.com

let me leave this here

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I agree with the latter point. It's the same whenever people protest about removal of conditions, perks etc. because they don't have them. Surely they should be supported to maintain them, and then everybody campaigns for other areas to *gain* them too!

That being said, Covid has exposed certain benefits I hadn't thought of until now of the public sector. I work both private, and public. The private job has all-but evaporated (depended on funding, and the funding is going into rescuing projects already up and running, rather than new ones) whereas the public job is, at least, secure in its hours and pay, and tbf to senior management, they've managed the crisis very well, in my view.

I don't think, however, it's appropriate for pay rises this year as it is exceptional. What that money should be used for is funding additional jobs, re-training, and other areas that will be needed going forward. By all means, in normal circumstance it's been ludicrous that public sector pay has been frozen as long as it has, but we're not in normal times. Compared to my other job, I'm glad to have one at all atm!

And yes, I appreciate it's probably naive to expect funding for public benefit going forward but... you never know!

As you've pointed out when the good times are here private enterprise is great but when they inevitably disappear and the money isn't there to be made that same enterprise goes into hiding to protect their own fortunes. Imagine if the entire economy were based on this and how much contraction and job losses there would be as they all run away from the sinking ship to save their own skins. Once again it's left to the public purse to steer that ship out of trouble, picking up the tab to stimulate growth and investment then the private enterprise come back out the woodwork and make money. Nationalised losses, privatised gains.

Now this isn't meant as some 'nationalise everything' rant. Both private and public provide opportunities to improve in various ways. It's more about those that extol the virtues of private enterprise and capitalism and how they should predominate everything cos it's great. If we had one downturn without much of a public sector to bail us out and get things moving the shitshow that would follow would be enormous.

 

[shmmeee]

As you've pointed out when the good times are here private enterprise is great but when they inevitably disappear and the money isn't there to be made that same enterprise goes into hiding to protect their own fortunes. Imagine if the entire economy were based on this and how much contraction and job losses there would be as they all run away from the sinking ship to save their own skins. Once again it's left to the public purse to steer that ship out of trouble, picking up the tab to stimulate growth and investment then the private enterprise come back out the woodwork and make money. Nationalised losses, privatised gains.

Now this isn't meant as some 'nationalise everything' rant. Both private and public provide opportunities to improve in various ways. It's more about those that extol the virtues of private enterprise and capitalism and how they should predominate everything cos it's great. If we had one downturn without much of a public sector to bail us out and get things moving the shitshow that would follow would be enormous.

What New Labour’s expansion of public sector employment did and does is spread decent paid secure jobs across all regions that meant a recession doesn’t tank demand everywhere and create ghost towns. Public sector employment is a perfect base to maintain demand while private industry gets back on its feet and provides a backstop against an area spiralling into destitution.

Its why the rights constant ideological war against public sector employment is one of their more bone headed economic policies in a field of extremely stupid economic policies.

 

[David O'Day]

Sunak's star is deffo ebbing, got owned left right and centre today in parliament.

 

[clint van damme]

Sunak's star is deffo ebbing, got owned left right and centre today in parliament.

been briefed against from within his own party as well. I wonder which bollock jowled Machiavellian Scotsman with a penchant for chisel could be behind that?

 

[David O'Day]

been briefed against from within his own party as well. I wonder which bollock jowled Machiavellian Scotsman with a penchant for chisel could be behind that?

He doesn't help himself by being all style and no substance. Take the pretend future fund, the 400 mil earmarked for it actually works out at about 158 quid per person if there is as predicted an extra 2.6 million jobless

 

[shmmeee]

He doesn't help himself by being all style and no substance. Take the pretend future fund, the 400 mil earmarked for it actually works out at about 158 quid per person if there is as predicted an extra 2.6 million jobless

It’s all bollocks.

He’s going to drive us into a double dip ideological recession over Brexit and tHe NaTiOnAl cReDiT CaRd.

Are they going to claw back the billions they gave to their mates? Are the fook. And well meaning people without a clue will nod along going “yeah well future generations debt innit?”

LOST GROWTH IS LOST FOREVER!!!! Stupid timescales to “pay down the debt” that kill entire industries are what will kill your grandkids future Darren not a fucking budget deficit.

Can’t believe we’re going to watch this shite play out again like it’s 2010 all over again. My kingdom for a politician with an ounce of common sense.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Bloody hell!

 

[clint van damme]

Bloody hell!

View attachment 17616

Nick Grifftin

 

[skybluetony176]

I see the government still can’t stem the leak.

 

[Grendel]

Bloody hell!

View attachment 17616

Targeted searching as well - well well

 

[chiefdave]

Question for the non-Tories on the thread, interested to know where people get their news from these days?

Politically I'd probably be classed as 'anyone but the Conservatives' having voted Green, Lib Dem and Labour at various points in the past. Finding that these days its a struggle to get decent news coverage. Don't particularly want to be in an echo chamber but not really a fan of how opinion is increasingly presented as fact.

Have previously been a reader of The Times, Independent, Guardian and The i but IMO they've all gone downhill. The choice seems to be between news that is so lacking in detail it fits in a tweet or rambling 2 hour podcasts with a very narrow subject matter and little objectivity.

 

[clint van damme]

Question for the non-Tories on the thread, interested to know where people get their news from these days?

Politically I'd probably be classed as 'anyone but the Conservatives' having voted Green, Lib Dem and Labour at various points in the past. Finding that these days its a struggle to get decent news coverage. Don't particularly want to be in an echo chamber but not really a fan of how opinion is increasingly presented as fact.

Have previously been a reader of The Times, Independent, Guardian and The i but IMO they've all gone downhill. The choice seems to be between news that is so lacking in detail it fits in a tweet or rambling 2 hour podcasts with a very narrow subject matter and little objectivity.

I read the Guardian but I don't rate it however it's probably more accurate than most British papers, the Times was decent but is now behind a paywall.
I work between my desk and the shop floor so when at my desk I generally listen to a podcast or music but also Sky news which isn't too bad to be fair.
Don't rate the Independent at all though it had two great foreign correspondents in Cockburn and Frisk. I see the centrist so called journalists are putting the boot in on Fisk now he's dead the cunts.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Not sure if I’m classed as a Tory or not Dave (I’ve voted for both main parties more than once, no disrespect to the other parties but there is no point where I live)

For what it’s worth my advice is to read a mix (The Guardian, Mail, Sunday Times is probably where I get most info from, first two as decent free online content !). If you know their biases you can at least build those into your thinking - it’s why I rarely take stuff directly off social media at face value without at least knowing someone’s angle/biases. However much people may not like certain papers, how do you ever know what the other side of the argument is without reading their point of view on a certain subject ?

Take brexit - you can get a real mix of views/opinions across those three papers, read one solely and it’s probably a waste of time as you probably know what’s going to be said (positive or negative) before even reading it.

As I’ve said before the written media has a lot to answer for during the pandemic, however, I would rather read a mix of their content than trust news off directly from some bloke/woman off social media

 

[skybluetony176]

Sounds like Mark Francois is about to return to public life.

 

[clint van damme]

 

[skybluetony176]

Let’s see how this plays out

 

[skybluetony176]

German TV destroys Boris Johnson in The Crown parody sketch 'The Clown'

'The Clown' is a parody of the hit Netflix series The Crown - only instead of being about the British Royal Family, it is a biography of Boris Johnson.

www.joe.co.uk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Let’s see how this plays out

I think he meant to say he'll lie in front of those bulldozers in the meaning of he'll stand there and tell fibs.

 

[skybluetony176]

I think he meant to say he'll lie in front of those bulldozers in the meaning of he'll stand there and tell fibs.

Sept 2015. Boris Johnson says he will lie in front of bulldozers

Dec 2019. Boris visits the JCB factory and lies in front of a bulldozer.

 

[chiefdave]

Well I'm shocked. Who would have guessed trickle down doesn't work and "tax cuts for rich people breed inequality without providing much of a boon to anyone else" & "such measures over the last 50 years only really benefited the individuals who were directly affected, and did little to promote jobs or growth."

Fifty Years of Tax Cuts for Rich Didn’t Trickle Down, Study Says

Tax cuts for rich people breed inequality without providing much of a boon to anyone else, according to a study of the advanced world that could add to the case for the wealthy to bear more of the cost of the coronavirus pandemic.

www.bloomberg.com

Here's the paper for anyone interested:

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/107919/1/Hope_economic_consequences_of_major_tax_cuts_published.pdf

 

[clint van damme]

brilliant!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Well I'm shocked. Who would have guessed trickle down doesn't work and "tax cuts for rich people breed inequality without providing much of a boon to anyone else" & "such measures over the last 50 years only really benefited the individuals who were directly affected, and did little to promote jobs or growth."

Fifty Years of Tax Cuts for Rich Didn’t Trickle Down, Study Says

Tax cuts for rich people breed inequality without providing much of a boon to anyone else, according to a study of the advanced world that could add to the case for the wealthy to bear more of the cost of the coronavirus pandemic.

www.bloomberg.com

Here's the paper for anyone interested:

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/107919/1/Hope_economic_consequences_of_major_tax_cuts_published.pdf

Well that's a shock!

Of course those of us who said as such at the time were just idiots without a clue about economics...

 

[shmmeee]

Well I'm shocked. Who would have guessed trickle down doesn't work and "tax cuts for rich people breed inequality without providing much of a boon to anyone else" & "such measures over the last 50 years only really benefited the individuals who were directly affected, and did little to promote jobs or growth."

Fifty Years of Tax Cuts for Rich Didn’t Trickle Down, Study Says

Tax cuts for rich people breed inequality without providing much of a boon to anyone else, according to a study of the advanced world that could add to the case for the wealthy to bear more of the cost of the coronavirus pandemic.

www.bloomberg.com

Here's the paper for anyone interested:

http://eprints.lse.ac.uk/107919/1/Hope_economic_consequences_of_major_tax_cuts_published.pdf

Well I, for one, can’t wait for our newly enthusiastic for economic equality and not that trendy racial or sex equality government to get right on this.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Jacob Rees-Mogg accuses Unicef of 'playing politics' over UK food campaign

He says the charity should be "ashamed" after launching a campaign to feed UK children.

www.bbc.co.uk

Totally clueless privileged idiot.

Not once does he think how come British kids even qualify for UNICEF help. The fact they do should be a wake up call that his parties policies of favouring the rich with tax cuts and cutting spending are causing huge inequality and social problems and need to be consigned to the dustbin of history as the failures they are. It's not UNICEF who should be ashamed - it's him.

But having been brought up in that life of privilege and wealth he of course can't be wrong. It must be everyone else.

 

[chiefdave]

The only people who should be ashamed are the government. Should be a national scandal that UNICEF are having to intervene to feed hungry children in this country.

 

[skybluetony176]

Jacob Rees-Mogg accuses Unicef of 'playing politics' over UK food campaign

He says the charity should be "ashamed" after launching a campaign to feed UK children.

www.bbc.co.uk

Totally clueless privileged idiot.

Not once does he think how come British kids even qualify for UNICEF help. The fact they do should be a wake up call that his parties policies of favouring the rich with tax cuts and cutting spending are causing huge inequality and social problems and need to be consigned to the dustbin of history as the failures they are. It's not UNICEF who should be ashamed - it's him.

But having been brought up in that life of privilege and wealth he of course can't be wrong. It must be everyone else.

Let them eat cake

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Let them eat cake

Well he'd put it as

sit illis manducare libum

 

[Ian1779]

Well he'd put it as

sit illis manducare libum

Always wondered what the Latin for c*** is....

 

[wingy]

Tory MP sacked as aide after Le Carré-style sting to find leak

An extraordinary spy “sting” mounted by the Government Chief Whip has led to a Tory MP being sacked from his post as a ministerial aide.

www.standard.co.uk

 

[fernandopartridge]

Tory MP sacked as aide after Le Carré-style sting to find leak

An extraordinary spy “sting” mounted by the Government Chief Whip has led to a Tory MP being sacked from his post as a ministerial aide.

www.standard.co.uk

As usual, some leaks are OK and some are not.

 

[chiefdave]

Let them eat cake

To be fair there's probably not much money left after we've paid nurses.

Four out of ten nurses helping Britain battle Covid-19 say they are so badly paid they go without meals or use food banks so their families can eat instead.

 

[clint van damme]

Jacob Rees-Mogg accuses Unicef of 'playing politics' over UK food campaign

He says the charity should be "ashamed" after launching a campaign to feed UK children.

www.bbc.co.uk

Totally clueless privileged idiot.

Not once does he think how come British kids even qualify for UNICEF help. The fact they do should be a wake up call that his parties policies of favouring the rich with tax cuts and cutting spending are causing huge inequality and social problems and need to be consigned to the dustbin of history as the failures they are. It's not UNICEF who should be ashamed - it's him.

But having been brought up in that life of privilege and wealth he of course can't be wrong. It must be everyone else.

an absolute c**t of a man.
Constantly hides behind his religion when it suits but conveniently ignores any part of the bible or Christian philosophy that contradicts his I'm alright jack outlook on life.
But has a posh accent and can spout a bit of Latin so gets a pass from a large chunk of the cap doffing electorate.