Do you want to discuss boring politics? (29 Viewers)

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Who would have thought a former ring-leader of the bullingdon club would condone bullying......

Priti Patel: Bullying inquiry head quits as PM backs home secretary

The home secretary apologises for any upset - but says she was "not being supported" by her department.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

---

[BodicoteSkyBlue]

Remember the olden days, when an MP would do the honourable thing & resign?

 

[skybluetony176]

Remember the olden days, when an MP would do the honourable thing & resign?

Someone resigned over it, just not the person who did wrong

Priti Patel: Bullying inquiry head quits as PM backs home secretary

The home secretary apologises for any upset - but says she was "not being supported" by her department.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Is it a surprise he's rejected it?

They follow the experts unless the experts don't tell them what they want to hear. All they want is confirmation and if they don't get it they ignore it.

True of all govts - Labour ignored the findings of Prof. Nutt because it didn't support their stance of a war on drugs.

 

[skybluetony176]

We have a government of liars, bully’s and racist who indulge in cronyism and unaccountability and the majority of the press don’t scrutinise this and a large percentage of the public don’t care. We’re fucked until people wake up.

 

[Ian1779]

We have a government of liars, bully’s and racist who indulge in cronyism and unaccountability and the majority of the press don’t scrutinise this and a large percentage of the public don’t care. We’re fucked until people wake up.

Apparently being ‘woke’ is some kind of bad thing as well.
We’re proper fucked.

 

[clint van damme]

Apparently being ‘woke’ is some kind of bad thing as well.
We’re proper fucked.

What about if you're woke unintentionally?

 

[CCFCSteve]

I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)

 

[shmmeee]

I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)

Its lies Steve. It’s always lies with this lot. And no manager needs to be told it’s inappropriate to swear and and berate your staff.

Priti Patel was warned to treat staff with respect, says former official

Ex-top official questions inquiry’s finding that home secretary was not “aware” of impact of behaviour.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[CCFCSteve]

Its lies Steve. It’s always lies with this lot. And no manager needs to be told it’s inappropriate to swear and and berate your staff.

Priti Patel was warned to treat staff with respect, says former official

Ex-top official questions inquiry’s finding that home secretary was not “aware” of impact of behaviour.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks. Id not see that shmmeee, only the summary of the report on BBC website. strange that it contradicts the reports verdict. If true then, she should resign. I only say ‘if’ as he does have a vested interest in the matter (as he’s suing government)., As I say, pretty sure she won’t be able to change her style/manner anyway (which is obviously causing offence) so may as well walk now

Ps surely Sir Alex would’ve spoken to those involved in the recent incidents and asked if they had flagged her conduct to her and/or others, as part of his report ?

 

[wingy]

Thanks. Id not see that shmmeee, only the summary of the report on BBC website. strange that it contradicts the reports verdict. If true then, she should resign. I only say ‘if’ as he does have a vested interest in the matter (as he’s suing government)., As I say, pretty sure she won’t be able to change her style/manner anyway (which is obviously causing offence) so may as well walk now

Ps surely Sir Alex would’ve spoken to those involved in the recent incidents and asked if they had flagged her conduct to her and/or others, as part of his report ?

Well somebody ,one of two is lying.
PM has tried to influence content of the report, and the guy who wrote it felt the PM contradicts the outcome he came to after his investigation .

 

[skybluetony176]

I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)

But she has form. This wasn’t a first time offence or a one off

Priti Patel staff member received £25k payout over bullying allegations - BBC News

The DWP staff member claimed she had been the victim of bullying by the then employment minister.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I know people have maybe made up their minds on the ‘bullying scandal’ but something in the summary on the BBCs website shouldn’t be overlooked:

’In addition, no feedback was given to the home secretary of the impact of her behaviour, which meant she was unaware of issues that she could otherwise have addressed’

So basically, we’re in a world where your conduct/behaviour is considered unacceptable to someone or some people, nobody ever flags this to you or to those that maybe be able to help you address this conduct. They go straight to formal complaint. That just feels wrong to me.

This isn’t condoning Patels behaviour and personally I think she should’ve resigned as I’m not convinced she will be able to change her behaviours, it’s her style/manner, which in this world, is no longer accepted.

I’ve been a boss and I’ve worked with other senior people who have had far more aggressive styles than me (bizarrely three of whom have been women of a certain age who probably had to fight that bit harder to get to that level ahead of men - no excuse but not irrelevant). Whenever poor conduct was flagged it would be discussed directly with the individual and they’d always be given the opportunutiy to address their conduct/behaviour.

ps I personally wouldn’t touch the Home Secretary job if I was an MP. The home office comes out this poorly, as they/uk border agency did with the windrush mess (as did, correctly, a more aggressive immigration policy, which in my view was misdirected at the wrong people, by May). I don’t think there was any resignations in the civil service even though they were the ones that decided to destroy all the docs (by all accounts neither Jack straw, who was HS when the destroying of docs was decided or May, who was HS when docs were destroyed, were aware)

There is a point there, but Patel comes across as someone who wouldn't take that constructive criticism. She'd make your life a misery and look to get rid of you at the first opportunity. The fact that johnson has backed her and rejected the report tells you everything you need to know about who has the power. The Home Office is going to be an horrendous workplace from now on now that's she's effectively got away with it and the PM has basically given her carte blanche to treat the civil servants like crap.

 

[David O'Day]

She'll be gone soon

 

[CCFCSteve]

There is a point there, but Patel comes across as someone who wouldn't take that constructive criticism. She'd make your life a misery and look to get rid of you at the first opportunity. The fact that johnson has backed her and rejected the report tells you everything you need to know about who has the power. The Home Office is going to be an horrendous workplace from now on now that's she's effectively got away with it and the PM has basically given her carte blanche to treat the civil servants like crap.

No, I think DOD is right, she’s done. She’ll be walking on eggshells (impossible for her by all accounts) knowing if anything is leaked she finished. The HO staff will know that and if anything her position will be weakened. As I said earlier she’d be better resigning now as I can’t imagine she be able to change, it’s her style/manner. The Home Secretary position is known as a bit of a graveyard ministerial role, probably for good reason.

ps reshuffle in Jan by all accounts...if she lasts.

Edit - Thinking about it if Gove did leak the lockdown info he could end up there (or Health)

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

No, I think DOD is right, she’s done. She’ll be walking on eggshells (impossible for her by all accounts) knowing if anything is leaked she finished. The HO staff will know that and if anything her position will be weakened. As I said earlier she’d be better resigning now as I can’t imagine she be able to change, it’s her style/manner. The Home Secretary position is known as a bit of a graveyard ministerial role, probably for good reason.

ps reshuffle in Jan by all accounts...if she lasts

IF she goes she'll be back. This isn't the first time she's been accused 9and made to pay up) over bullying.

Plus remember those meetings when she was 'on holiday' under May?
"There were no meetings"
"yes there was - this one"
"OK, there was that one meeting"
"what about this one"
"yes there was that one too"

Ended up running the Home Office.

Others know she's a troublemaker and will do exactly that if she's hung out to dry and she'll take others down with her. So out of self-interest they might do something to look like she's being punished but told she'll be back in cabinet before too long. Like Mandelson.

 

[CCFCSteve]

IF she goes she'll be back. This isn't the first time she's been accused 9and made to pay up) over bullying.

Plus remember those meetings when she was 'on holiday' under May?
"There were no meetings"
"yes there was - this one"
"OK, there was that one meeting"
"what about this one"
"yes there was that one too"

Ended up running the Home Office.

Others know she's a troublemaker and will do exactly that if she's hung out to dry and she'll take others down with her. So out of self-interest they might do something to look like she's being punished but told she'll be back in cabinet before too long. Like Mandelson.

No sure she’ll get another post due to these issues. Who knows though....Education secretary anyone ?!! (Kidding )

 

[clint van damme]

IF she goes she'll be back. This isn't the first time she's been accused 9and made to pay up) over bullying.

Plus remember those meetings when she was 'on holiday' under May?
"There were no meetings"
"yes there was - this one"
"OK, there was that one meeting"
"what about this one"
"yes there was that one too"

Ended up running the Home Office.

Others know she's a troublemaker and will do exactly that if she's hung out to dry and she'll take others down with her. So out of self-interest they might do something to look like she's being punished but told she'll be back in cabinet before too long. Like Mandelson.

She got bought back in after colluding with a foreign government. There are no standards any more

 

[CCFCSteve]

She got bought back in after colluding with a foreign government. There are no standards any more

Standards and integrity in politics are long gone Clint (reminded myself of that when I stumbled across someone talking about the expenses scandal the other day)

Ps not all politicians, there’s a small handful of decent ones across the house

 

[chiefdave]

This doesn't read well from the governments perspective.

COURT OF APPEAL RULES EDUCATION SECRETARY ACTED UNLAWFULLY IN REMOVING SAFEGUARDS FOR CHILDREN IN CARE | Article 39

In a judgment given today (24 November), the Court of Appeal has unanimously declared that the Secretary of…

article39.org.uk

 

[SomersetSB]

MPs getting a three grand pay rise I see,The leaders of all parties should come out and give it to a kids charity.
Didn’t Dave Nellist refuse his MPs salary when he was an MP in the 80’s? Just took a living wage etc?

 

[Deleted member 5849]

MPs getting a three grand pay rise I see,The leaders of all parties should come out and give it to a kids charity.
Didn’t Dave Nellist refuse his MPs salary when he was an MP in the 80’s? Just took a living wage etc?

tbfm I have no problem with MPs getting a rise in principle - they're underpaid really, given they run the country.

I do have an issue with them getting a rise whilst they're imposing pay freezes on other public sector areas, mind you.

 

[SomersetSB]

tbfm I have no problem with MPs getting a rise in principle - they're underpaid really, given they run the country.

I do have an issue with them getting a rise whilst they're imposing pay freezes on other public sector areas, mind you.

Just think at times like these they should lead by example tbh.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Just think at times like these they should lead by example tbh.

Well yes. To be clear, given the year we've had, I'm not even against a pay freeze for the public sector this year. But yes, leading by example is surely the way forward.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Well yes. To be clear, given the year we've had, I'm not even against a pay freeze for the public sector this year. But yes, leading by example is surely the way forward.

Given the year we’ve had those in healthcare and education should be getting a pay rise without question

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

Given the year we’ve had those in healthcare and education should be getting a pay rise without question

Frontline healthcare workers aside, I'm afraid public sector pay rises this year generally would be seen as a slap in the face for the millions of folks who have lost their jobs, had their earnings decimated, seen their businesses go under & look forward to more of the same in 2021....

Disgraceful that the MPs are taking theirs.......but not at all surprising.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Frontline healthcare workers aside, I'm afraid public sector pay rises this year generally would be seen as a slap in the face for the millions of folks who have lost their jobs, had their earnings decimated, seen their businesses go under & look forward to more of the same in 2021....

Disgraceful that the MPs are taking theirs.......but not at all surprising.

Yeah, I'd say having a semi-guaranteed job is reward enough atm, and it's time to support others less fortunate. Shame MPs won't lead from the front in that, mind you.

In normal circumstances I'd be all for the campaign against wage depression, but this is not a normal year. It's been horrible for just about everybody, and I suspect there are very few people who can say they've enjoyed their job this year, and it's been an absolute pleasure!

 

[fernandopartridge]

Frontline healthcare workers aside, I'm afraid public sector pay rises this year generally would be seen as a slap in the face for the millions of folks who have lost their jobs, had their earnings decimated, seen their businesses go under & look forward to more of the same in 2021....

Disgraceful that the MPs are taking theirs.......but not at all surprising.

It isn't the fault of public sector employees, it is not a race to the bottom

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Frontline healthcare workers aside, I'm afraid public sector pay rises this year generally would be seen as a slap in the face for the millions of folks who have lost their jobs, had their earnings decimated, seen their businesses go under & look forward to more of the same in 2021....

Disgraceful that the MPs are taking theirs.......but not at all surprising.

Since we’ve had it frozen for a decade it’s just restoring to where it should have been anyway.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah, I'd say having a semi-guaranteed job is reward enough atm, and it's time to support others less fortunate. Shame MPs won't lead from the front in that, mind you.

In normal circumstances I'd be all for the campaign against wage depression, but this is not a normal year. It's been horrible for just about everybody, and I suspect there are very few people who can say they've enjoyed their job this year, and it's been an absolute pleasure!

I don’t know where you’ve got that impression I’ve never been happier

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

It isn't the fault of public sector employees, it is not a race to the bottom

True enough....but equally its not the fault of those employed outside of the public sector & its relative security.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is what it is.....

 

[Deleted member 5849]

True enough....but equally its not the fault of those employed outside of the public sector & its relative security.
I don't necessarily agree with it, but it is what it is.....

I'd be using any money saved to lift others up.

Of course, we all know it won't happen that way. See... MPs salaries!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Well yes. To be clear, given the year we've had, I'm not even against a pay freeze for the public sector this year. But yes, leading by example is surely the way forward.

I've said before it should be written legislation that MP's shouldn't be allowed a salary increase greater than the lowest percentage increase for public sector workers. If possible I'd include the top civil servants in that.

 

[wingy]

I think the essential worker's who've made sure food has been on our tables and worked through while most had an extended holiday should get a £1k bonus in their Xmas pay packets .
I say this as someone who has nearly been bankrupted by this blight.


Edit: or a tax holiday equivalent to £1k.

 

[Skybluefaz]

I think the essential worker's who've made sure food has been on our tables and worked through while most had an extended holiday should get a £1k bonus in their Xmas pay packets .
I say this as someone who has nearly been bankrupted by this blight.


Edit: or a tax holiday equivalent to £1k.

The local coop gave all staff an extra weeks wages. Decent move