Do you want to discuss boring politics? (17 Viewers)

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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
But there’s no chance of that happening is there? Labour have said they won’t entertain FoM and there’s no way the Tories ever will.
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I can’t quite believe there is still this misconception about Brexit/migration. Excluding the racist nutters, most leave voters are quite happy to have controlled migration and understand it’s needed. It was the uncontrolled nature of EU FOM that most had an issue with ie running at net 300k to 400k total net migration a year, which is unsustainable as it impacts public services, especially in high migrant towns/cities, as well as suppresses wages in certain (not all) sectors.

A return to total FOM isn’t needed. A sensible/flexible migration policy where you encourage people required to fill skill or job shortages is, whether those people come from the EU, Australia, America, India shouldn’t matter. It’s not rocket science yet some Remainers and more worrying, some in government, don’t appear to get this
 
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CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
When migrants were (not sure if are post-Brexit) net contributors to the economy, it only impacts public services if there's a political decision not to spend said surplus on said services.
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There’s always going to be a lag though NW. If 400k turn up tomorrow that need housing, kids teaching, GP appointments etc there’s no control. That’s a city the size of Cov. What happened if 600k turned up one year ? What happens to wages for certain jobs ? House/rent prices etc ?

I’ve never questioned whether migrants contribute, most do and most, or certainly ones I’ve worked with or come across have a great work ethic. It’s needed, we’re an aging population. However, with uncontrolled migration you can get an oversupply and then an overreliance in certain sectors, leading to wage suppression. many will also be lower skilled so pay less into the pot over shorter periods of time. There’s no build up of contributions

ps I’ve said 100 times before if the EU had offered any semblance of control Remain would’ve won comfortably. People say there’s levers that couldve been pulled, I think only one, small EU country ever has. These are short term, temporary controls. I accept that successive governments should’ve done more however they all relied on the superficial/short term economic benefits of cheap labour though
 
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D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
CCFCSteve said:
There’s always going to be a lag though NW. If 400k turn up tomorrow that need housing, kids teaching, GP appointments etc there’s no control. That’s a city the size of Cov. What happened if 600k turned up one year ? What happens to wages for certain jobs ? House/rent prices etc ?

I’ve never questioned whether migrants contribute, most do and most, or certainly ones I’ve worked with or come across have a great work ethic. It’s needed, we’re an aging population. However, with uncontrolled migration you can get an oversupply and then an overreliance in certain sectors, leading to wage suppression. many will also be lower skilled so pay less into the pot over shorter periods of time. There’s no build up of contributions

ps I’ve said 100 times before if the EU had offered any semblance of control Remain would’ve won comfortably. People say there’s levers that couldve been pulled, I think only one, small EU country ever has. These are short term, temporary controls. I accept that successive governments should’ve done more however they all relied on the superficial/short term economic benefits of cheap labour though
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But it's been pretty consistent that economic migrants are of net benefit. You can knock out asylum seekers... who any self-respecting civilised country will be processing regardless of freedom of movement.

I'm not going to argue against the wage suppression but... it's also a form of levelling up, too. What we *should* be doing is setting the conditions so our wages are higher *regardless* of freedom of movement or not, but that doesn't suit a purely profit driven system to do that, so FOM is a bit of a red herring there. What we shouldn't be doing, however, is being quite so insular -imagine if people couldn't go to Birmingham or Nottingham for work, despite the better opportunitie there...
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
The control thing is and always was a red herring. They were coming here to work not claim benefits. If there wasn’t the work they wouldn’t have come. Simple as.

Nobody has suppressed wages more the the government. Look at the hissy fits some were having at labours proposals for minimum wage at the last election. Trickle down economy clearly doesn’t work but push up economy does. If the most basic simple jobs earn a decent wage it pushes up wages above.
 
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Deleted member 9744

Guest
CCFCSteve said:
I can’t quite believe there is still this misconception about Brexit/migration. Excluding the racist nutters, most leave voters are quite happy to have controlled migration and understand it’s needed. It was the uncontrolled nature of EU FOM that most had an issue with ie running at net 300k to 400k total net migration a year, which is unsustainable as it impacts public services, especially in high migrant towns/cities, as well as suppresses wages in certain (not all) sectors.

A return to total FOM isn’t needed. A sensible/flexible migration policy where you encourage people required to fill skill or job shortages is, whether those people come from the EU, Australia, America, India shouldn’t matter. It’s not rocket science yet some Remainers and more worrying, some in government, don’t appear to get this
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Freedom of movement impacted positively on public services
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
But it's been pretty consistent that economic migrants are of net benefit. You can knock out asylum seekers... who any self-respecting civilised country will be processing regardless of freedom of movement.

I'm not going to argue against the wage suppression but... it's also a form of levelling up, too. What we *should* be doing is setting the conditions so our wages are higher *regardless* of freedom of movement or not, but that doesn't suit a purely profit driven system to do that, so FOM is a bit of a red herring there. What we shouldn't be doing, however, is being quite so insular -imagine if people couldn't go to Birmingham or Nottingham for work, despite the better opportunitie there...
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Problem is twofold for me:

1) We are pretty much the richest country in terms of currency around. You can come here in your early 20s, live five to a room and eat beans for three or four years and send money home to buy a house in Bulgaria or Romania doing basically minimum wage work. Young poor people in this country don’t have an equivalent. The closest is London and the coats there mean that’s not really an option outside of middle class jobs.

2) Integration. If you can come en masse and live in a community where you don’t need to speak English you become apart and that creates resentment. Say what you like but people want to be surrounded by those who they can speak to who have similar cultural values. It’s one thing someone coming in, learning English and the social standards in Britain. It’s another setting up a community within a community and sticking to your own.

I’m honestly not sure you can solve those two issues when you have such wealth disparity between EU countries. The reason we don’t have little Germany or little Italy communities here is because the numbers are big enough and they aren’t big enough because the poor of those countries aren’t significantly better off here. That’s not true for many EE countries. The common market really needs to have a higher bar for the standard of economy for freedom of movement to work and be sustainable IMO.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Run Boris run



State of him.
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It’s intentional. Part of his image. People who have worked with him have said he does this on purpose same as the messed up hair.

More bothered by the fact the man in charge of the country clearly can’t grasp basic principles about how the food supply chain works TBH. Man’s a cretin.
 
stupot07

stupot07

Well-Known Member
I've just had a headline from the mail come up on Upday on my phone saying thay 3 Labour MPs have opened comms to the Tory Whip and are on the verge of defecting to the Tories because they are disillusioned with Kier Starmer. Wtf??

Sent from my SM-G965F using Tapatalk
 
oakey

oakey

Well-Known Member
Ian1779 said:
Running in school shoes…. 🤡
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It's our Boris. He can do what he wants because any alternative is worse, apparently.
Everything wrong is the fault of foreigners or previous governments or woke lefties.
Boris is the only one who understands this.
If those who voted for him admit he is at fault for anything they have to face being wrong and a sizeable number of voters are not able to make that step, yet.
Stockholm syndrome comes to mind.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
CCFCSteve said:
There’s always going to be a lag though NW. If 400k turn up tomorrow that need housing, kids teaching, GP appointments etc there’s no control. That’s a city the size of Cov. What happened if 600k turned up one year ? What happens to wages for certain jobs ? House/rent prices etc ?

I’ve never questioned whether migrants contribute, most do and most, or certainly ones I’ve worked with or come across have a great work ethic. It’s needed, we’re an aging population. However, with uncontrolled migration you can get an oversupply and then an overreliance in certain sectors, leading to wage suppression. many will also be lower skilled so pay less into the pot over shorter periods of time. There’s no build up of contributions

ps I’ve said 100 times before if the EU had offered any semblance of control Remain would’ve won comfortably. People say there’s levers that couldve been pulled, I think only one, small EU country ever has. These are short term, temporary controls. I accept that successive governments should’ve done more however they all relied on the superficial/short term economic benefits of cheap labour though
Click to expand...
The UK never bothered to implement the rules that were there, such as having people register for residency and prove that they have a work contract or are paying taxes and NI to have access to healthcare, public services etc.
Even now in Italy I have to go along every year for the next 2 years and prove I am earning a certain amount and demonstrate I’m paying taxes/INPs contributions to get access to the health system.
 
Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Evo1883 said:
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If this didn't so you what matters to the Tories then nothing will. Don't care if you're ill, sick or dying as long as there's money.

"There's more money in your pocket (well, not really.)"
"I'll be dead soon so what fucking use is that to me?"

And what makes it even more infuriating is that there is no wage growth in real terms.

Can someone please remind them that government is supposed to be for the benefit of the PEOPLE. Not businesses. Not money. PEOPLE.
 
Evo1883

Evo1883

Well-Known Member
Ian Duncan Smith attacked today in Manchester, with a traffic cone .

5 people arrested .
 
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