Do you want to discuss boring politics? (31 Viewers)

[shmmeee]

Despite the spin Sir Starmer was in a fee paying school as indeed was Mr Blair.

Mr Milliband went so he tells us to a comp but his millionaire father gave him private tuition

Mr Corbyn was a grammar school boy but was so thick as pig shit he could barely scrape an A Level. Mr McDonnell went to a £36,000 a year school who paid for that remains a mystery

So you’ve proved that there’s an entrenched class system perpetuated by wealth through private education and your answer is to vote Tory?

 

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[stupot07]

Despite the spin Sir Starmer was in a fee paying school as indeed was Mr Blair.

Mr Milliband went so he tells us to a comp but his millionaire father gave him private tuition

Mr Corbyn was a grammar school boy but was so thick as pig shit he could barely scrape an A Level. Mr McDonnell went to a £36,000 a year school who paid for that remains a mystery

Gove went to a fee paying school, you used him as an example of working class earlier. IIRC Starmers school was a grammar school that then got turned into a fee paying school whilst he was there.


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[Grendel]

Gove went to a fee paying school, you used him as an example of working class earlier. IIRC Starmers school was a grammar school that then got turned into a fee paying school whilst he was there.


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He went to a state school and then to a fee paying school which he had Bursaries for. Surely he’s an example of inspiration isn’t he? Unlike thick as fuck Corbyn who had a cushy upbringing and well..was just thick

 

[stupot07]

He went to a state school and then to a fee paying school which he had Bursaries for. Surely he’s an example of inspiration isn’t he? Unlike thick as fuck Corbyn who had a cushy upbringing and well..was just thick

It would be inspirational if he wasn't a massive c*nt. I was only making the point as you made the point about Starmer going to a fee paying school.

I cant stand Corbyn either.

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[Grendel]

It would be inspirational if he wasn't a massive c*nt. I was only making the point as you made the point about Starmer going to a fee paying school.

I cant stand Corbyn either.

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How inspirational

 

[Ian1779]

You’re choosing those. But it’s stuff like this Transgender model who said 'all white people are racist' appointed as Labour adviser and the Diane Abbott white people tweet and the Gordon Brown “bigoted woman” and Naz Shah not fucking reading fake Owen Jones accounts tweets before she retweets that sticks and forms opinion and is really hard to get rid of.

That’s one of the things that most annoyed me about Corbyn: the intangible damage he did to the party is really hard to shift. Starmer has basically cut it all of at the knees over a year ago and it’s not cut through at all.

Yeah granted I did pick those. What I always find baffling is that stories like these have so much of an impact on a large group of people’s psyche in a overly negative way but it’s coming from a very small minority of voices - it’s like some wierd paradox.
As for your final comment, we are never going to agree on this point... I think the Brexit position did far more damage than Corbyn could have managed, but we don’t need to go over old ground. Either way (and wherever between those 2 positions the truth is) it probably means we won’t see a chance of a Labour government this decade

 

[Evo1883]

Yeah granted I did pick those. What I always find baffling is that stories like these have so much of an impact on a large group of people’s psyche in a overly negative way but it’s coming from a very small minority of voices - it’s like some wierd paradox.
As for your final comment, we are never going to agree on this point... I think the Brexit position did far more damage than Corbyn could have managed, but we don’t need to go over old ground. Either way (and wherever between those 2 positions the truth is) it probably means we won’t see a chance of a Labour government this decade ☹

Worryingly, I think it's longer than 10 years ..I'm semi resigned to the next 4 or 5 elections

You’re choosing those. But it’s stuff like this Transgender model who said 'all white people are racist' appointed as Labour adviser and the Diane Abbott white people tweet and the Gordon Brown “bigoted woman” and Naz Shah not fucking reading fake Owen Jones accounts tweets before she retweets that sticks and forms opinion and is really hard to get rid of.

That’s one of the things that most annoyed me about Corbyn: the intangible damage he did to the party is really hard to shift. Starmer has basically cut it all of at the knees over a year ago and it’s not cut through at all.

Don't forget the flag shagging Gammon either mate

But no seriously...you do have an understanding of how people think and react to certain narratives

 

[Grendel]

For the record if anyone is remotely interested I was born in Hillfields from very working class parents and my father died when I was young

I lived in a council house. I was the one person amongst my circle of friends who decided I’m going to university.

When I left there was record unemployment. I hooked ul
With a company and said I’d work for nothing as work experience as I knew they’d then employ me.

I was the only graduate in a very hourly paid environment in Jaguar and I was ridiculed every day

Didn’t care as I knew I’d do better and then got employed as a bottom grade analyst in marketing. Then I said I’d work any hours they wanted me to work - often I’d go in at 7 am and leave at 10 pm

I got 3 promotions in 4 years and then privately educated all my children.

I honestly think a Thatcher society provided a work and succeed attitude and if I’d been in a Kinnock led government i would be as angry as many on here

 

[shmmeee]

Yeah granted I did pick those. What I always find baffling is that stories like these have so much of an impact on a large group of people’s psyche in a overly negative way but it’s coming from a very small minority of voices - it’s like some wierd paradox.
As for your final comment, we are never going to agree on this point... I think the Brexit position did far more damage than Corbyn could have managed, but we don’t need to go over old ground. Either way (and wherever between those 2 positions the truth is) it probably means we won’t see a chance of a Labour government this decade ☹

Ive basically written off my kids childhoods which depresses me, but I went through school under the Tories, as long as they come out of Uni in a Labour boom like I did

Honestly at the point where I’m hoping Johnson keeps the leadership and maybe his missus convinces him to not totally fuck the planet up and maybe we have some element of an economy left post Brexit. My biggest fear is Brexit has laundered their reputation as much as it’s damaged ours and now people will put up with a true horror like Mogg or one of the ERG.

As much as Labour is copying all the worst bits of the Dems and none of the good, the Tories are on a fast track to Tea Party status but with an air of establishment respectability. That’s scary.

 

[Evo1883]

For the record if anyone is remotely interested I was born in Hillfields from very working class parents and my father died when I was young

I lived in a council house. I was the one person amongst my circle of friends who decided I’m going to university.

When I left there was record unemployment. I hooked ul
With a company and said I’d work for nothing as work experience as I knew they’d then employ me.

I was the only graduate in a very hourly paid environment in Jaguar and I was ridiculed every day

Didn’t care as I knew I’d do better and then got employed as a bottom grade analyst in marketing. Then I said I’d work any hours they wanted me to work - often I’d go in at 7 am and leave at 10 pm

I got 3 promotions in 4 years and then privately educated all my children.

I honestly think a Thatcher society provided a work and succeed attitude and if I’d been in a Kinnock led government i would be as angry as many on here

Great achievement , should be proud

 

[Evo1883]

Coventrys Labour Council (at a particular branch of employment) have just helped put all the agency staff on pay as you work , and taken us off our guaranteed full time hours but hey #forthepeople

 

[oakey]

I can't see the point of Labour any more.
Until we stop talking about a mythical working class that hasn't existed for about 40 years they will go round in circles.
Analysis of society along class lines is of no interest to most people.
Working people no longer have any class solidarity which is characterised by understanding that the Tories are, and always have been, your adversaries.

 

[shmmeee]

I can't see the point of Labour any more.
Until we stop talking about a mythical working class that hasn't existed for about 40 years they will go round in circles.
Analysis of society along class lines is of no interest to most people.
Working people no longer have any class solidarity which is characterised by understanding that the Tories are, and always have been, your adversaries.

Working people are still working people with working people concerns like health, education, wages, conditions, their immediate environment. Just because a workforce has successfully been atomised doesn’t mean it’s no longer got anything in common.

 

[Grendel]

Great achievement , should be proud

Theres luck of course but I get really annoyed when people say baby boomer rubbish when they’d never walk 5 miles there and back to work and object working 1 minute outside the contracted time

 

[Evo1883]

Tile hill is a working class area , the area is full of unskilled or semi skilled workers, although the drug dealers would argue their skill is quite unique and some would argue their gun skills are quite top notch

The working class still exist .

 

[shmmeee]

Tile hill is a working class area , the area is full of unskilled or semi skilled workers, although the drug dealers would argue their skill is quite unique and some would argue their gun skills are quite top notch

The working class still exist .

If you’re selling your labour you’re working class. All the rest is divide and conquer.

 

[Evo1883]

Unreal

 

[Skybluefaz]

Unreal

Check hard drive.

 

[Evo1883]

 

[Evo1883]

Belter this

 

[Evo1883]

81000 a year salary and estimated to be worth 3.3 million , and tweets that

Fucking depressing honestly


Somebody please sort this party out ffs

 

[Grendel]

Ah yes Mr Cruddas the ultimate leftie who mysteriously managed to fund through parliamentary expenses a second home in Notting Hill so he could send his children to one of the most successful state schools (faith school though as he’s clearly very Roman Catholic) in the country

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Discussed voting options with the missus for the council elections round here. Both going Green as to be honest ‘I’m a Corbynista’ does nothing for us compared to actions and specific plans. Will continue voting for the pretty good Labour MP we have here though.

Longer term there’s a simple reason why the Tories keep winning and that’s because the left is split 3 ways between Labour/LD/Green and the right is unified behind one party. Same in Scotland with the unionist vote. What is needed is for these 3 parties to put pride aside and change to reflect the country they’re now in.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Coventrys Labour Council (at a particular branch of employment) have just helped put all the agency staff on pay as you work , and taken us off our guaranteed full time hours but hey #forthepeople

Tell us more about this;

You are saying Coventry Labour has introduced zero-hour contracts for some of their agency staff?

 

[shmmeee]

81000 a year salary and estimated to be worth 3.3 million , and tweets that

Fucking depressing honestly


Somebody please sort this party out ffs

Point of order: she’s not a Labour MP

 

[shmmeee]

Ah yes Mr Cruddas the ultimate leftie who mysteriously managed to fund through parliamentary expenses a second home in Notting Hill so he could send his children to one of the most successful state schools (faith school though as he’s clearly very Roman Catholic) in the country

You make no sense at all. You get all grumpy about this so vote for the party that does this:

Redirect Notice

Tory MPs claim almost £3m in housing rent on expenses

Revelation comes at same time as government freezes housing allowance, which could drive many tenants into debt

www.google.co.uk

Same as Philosooraptor with his weird obsessions. Pick something both sides do and claim it’s a party specific thing, also absolutely obsessed with Labour but don’t vote for them. It’s very strange.

Moreover I don’t get this voting based on personalities or one off news stories, then sticking with that for life.

You either believe the rich need more money or you believe the rest do. That’s literally all there is to it. Why you’d change your vote because the councillor for east Clackmannanshire once took too many biscuits as a meeting is just fucking weird in my eyes.

 

[Philosoraptor]

Another ad hominem.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I would answer but I am too busy spanking someone's ass in a game to reply at the moment.

 

[shmmeee]

Another ad hominem.

Yeah I’m calling you names, well done. Doesn’t change my point though, both of you constantly post gotchas of things both sides do. Don’t like stupidity and racism of Claudia Webb, fine with stupidity and racism of Tories. Don’t like expenses scandals of Labour MPs, fine with bigger expenses scandals of Tories. Don’t like the condescending attitudes of Labour, fine with being called feckless layabouts by the Tories.

It’s pure emotion and I think Evo is spot on with his analysis that fundamentally people choose a side based on gut and IMO the rest is justification.

The overall picture doesn’t change. Either you’re left wing or right. Either you believe in spreading wealth around more evenly or concentrating it more. Everything else is celebrity tittle tattle quite frankly.

A wider, less personally offensive cos I’ve woken up with less sleep than I wanted take is that social media bubbles feed this. If you hate corruption you can find stories about Tory MPs all day, or you can find stories about Len McClusky or whatever all day. Hate hypocrites? Politics is full of them. I saw a thing the other day about how people think the big stories are the ones they read about on social media and that’s why both sides get all up in arms about the BBC not covering things they deem important. People creating their own reality to fit their assumptions.

As with Evo the other day, I’m being a cock, but it does genuinely interest me these psychological quirks and I’m not saying I’m immune by any stretch.

 

[Evo1883]

Tell us more about this;

You are saying Coventry Labour has introduced zero-hour contracts for some of their agency staff?

Yes , we've just recently been on guaranteed hours pay and it's changed

Not saying anymore, although it's shit I still want the job and I don't want to lose it

Don't know who dwells on here

 

[Evo1883]

Marjorie Taylor Greene Forming Caucus To Promote ‘Anglo-Saxon Political Traditions’

Rep. Louie Gohmert, who said he is looking at membership in the group, insisted it is 'not supposed to be about race at all.'

www.forbes.com

They really are quite strange these people

And why would you want anything to do with the traditions or values of 1000 years ago ?

 

[SBAndy]

For the record if anyone is remotely interested I was born in Hillfields from very working class parents and my father died when I was young

I lived in a council house. I was the one person amongst my circle of friends who decided I’m going to university.

When I left there was record unemployment. I hooked ul
With a company and said I’d work for nothing as work experience as I knew they’d then employ me.

I was the only graduate in a very hourly paid environment in Jaguar and I was ridiculed every day

Didn’t care as I knew I’d do better and then got employed as a bottom grade analyst in marketing. Then I said I’d work any hours they wanted me to work - often I’d go in at 7 am and leave at 10 pm

I got 3 promotions in 4 years and then privately educated all my children.

I honestly think a Thatcher society provided a work and succeed attitude and if I’d been in a Kinnock led government i would be as angry as many on here

And fair play to you for this. I just wonder whether you’d have the same opinion if you had put the work in and not secured promotions off the back of it - would you have put this down to your own failings or would you think “I’ve been taken for a ride here”? Rhetorical question, not expecting an answer but intriguing as a bit of a ‘sliding doors’ moment.

 

[SBAndy]

Yes , we've just recently been on guaranteed hours pay and it's changed

Not saying anymore, although it's shit I still want the job and I don't want to lose it

Don't know who dwells on here

Doesn’t surprise me knowing the state of most local authorities budgets. Having said that, councils do operate in a bit of a peculiar bubble - Nuneaton’s Labour council cut funding for various social projects (including one I have a vested interest in, totalling £7k) but kept the mayor’s car and driver in the budget at a cost of £22k (I think).

 

[PVA]

Ah yes Mr Cruddas the ultimate leftie who mysteriously managed to fund through parliamentary expenses a second home in Notting Hill so he could send his children to one of the most successful state schools (faith school though as he’s clearly very Roman Catholic) in the country

Classic.

Any hint of dodgy dealings by Labour and it's an absolute disgrace, yet the actual government can get away with brazen corruption to the tune of billions and people like Grendel don't bat an eyelid. Absolutely pathetic.

And we all know the reason the Tories are so popular with the working class these days. It's immigration/Brexit. We all know it.

 

[Grendel]

And fair play to you for this. I just wonder whether you’d have the same opinion if you had put the work in and not secured promotions off the back of it - would you have put this down to your own failings or would you think “I’ve been taken for a ride here”? Rhetorical question, not expecting an answer but intriguing as a bit of a ‘sliding doors’ moment.

Who knows? Possibly as I say there’s a large slice of luck - there always is

I know a fair few people from very average beginnings who’ve significantly enhanced their “status” - a couple who are practically in the millionaire bracket who’ve got zero qualifications but a high ethic to achieve

Really what I’m trying to do is explain why people don’t vote for a party like Labour. It’s a dinosaur concept. A lot of people will ask the question as to how is this party going to make me get out of drudgery and into the middle classes - it is a concept politically that lacks ambition and is jaded

I don’t think forums like this work for political discussion. If you believe this thread you assume most people would vote labour - that’s clearly not true it’s just most people can’t be bothered to enter a discussion - especially those on the “winning” side

The constant undertone that working class people who vote Tory are thick and I’m really clever so you listen to me isn’t a great sales Pitch either