Do you want to discuss boring politics? (192 Viewers)

[fatso]

Not for or against the idea but you could say social tenants don’t pay rent on top and when they sell either half the value goes to the council or even the renter only gets back their payments plus inflation or something.

But if they don't sell, then they've lived in a 50% tax payer funded property all their lives! How is that an encouragement for any one to bother buying a home with a traditional mortgage?

On another note, will these moves mean that housing benefit will soon become available to people who currently have mortgages, but are now finding they are being pushed into poverty (through no fault of their own) by the cost of living crisis?

 

---

[fernandopartridge]

We need massive land reform in this country.

Between foreign investment, landed gentry, second homes and buy to let, we’ve fucked the housing market.

I wonder if you could implement something to distinguish between investors and people wanting to live in a house? Then you could add premiums or demand first refusal or similar.

Agree massive social building is needed, both to bring prices down and also improve the general quality as most private rentals and even new builds are nothing like the size or quality of old council houses.

It’s an absolute no brainier for govt to build and run housing stock, you won’t find many better investments.

The problem is that successive governments (including the last Labour government unfortunately) have supported all of the conditions which lead to property price inflation, leading to rent seeking, speculation etc.

I just don't think under the current system any party is willing to do mass house building because of how many people are relying on property as their retirement fund (even the government itself with its policy to fund elderly care through house sales).

 

[fernandopartridge]

But if they don't sell, then they've lived in a 50% tax payer funded property all their lives! How is that an encouragement for any one to bother buying a home with a traditional mortgage?

On another note, will these moves mean that housing benefit will soon become available to people who currently have mortgages, but are now finding they are being pushed into poverty (through no fault of their own) by the cost of living crisis?

Taxpayers fund nothing. Why on earth should people be encouraged to take out a massive loan? Who's interest is that really in?

 

[fatso]

Taxpayers fund nothing. Why on earth should people be encouraged to take out a massive loan? Who's interest is that really in?

Well where is the money coming from to subsidise the 50% of the property That the occupant doesn't own?

And if you don't take out a "massive loan" to purchase a home, and pay off that loan before you retire, then how on earth are you going to pay for the roof over your head on a state pension of less than 10k per year?

 

[shmmeee]

The problem is that successive governments (including the last Labour government unfortunately) have supported all of the conditions which lead to property price inflation, leading to rent seeking, speculation etc.

I just don't think under the current system any party is willing to do mass house building because of how many people are relying on property as their retirement fund (even the government itself with its policy to fund elderly care through house sales).

Theres actually evidence of a change in peoples thinking there.



Hopefully we can wean people off property as their main long term investment here. Hard though as more people understand it and we don’t have the culture of managing your own investments like places like the states do.

 

[shmmeee]

But if they don't sell, then they've lived in a 50% tax payer funded property all their lives! How is that an encouragement for any one to bother buying a home with a traditional mortgage?

On another note, will these moves mean that housing benefit will soon become available to people who currently have mortgages, but are now finding they are being pushed into poverty (through no fault of their own) by the cost of living crisis?

People want to move for all sorts of reasons. Someone living their all their life renting would still be subsidised. And when they die theit estate could only take out what they put in with the rest reverting to the council. Or maybe they could sell 99 year leases or something?

Im not a massive fan of right to buy for all the obvious reasons, but the idea of allowing people to build up some capital while renting is a good one. Maybe they don’t buy the house but their rent or a portion of it goes into a fund only usable for a deposit on a property? Then say after five years renting socially people can get onto the ladder. You could take a tax on private landlords to do something similar.

 

[fatso]

People want to move for all sorts of reasons. Someone living their all their life renting would still be subsidised. And when they die theit estate could only take out what they put in with the rest reverting to the council. Or maybe they could sell 99 year leases or something?

Im not a massive fan of right to buy for all the obvious reasons, but the idea of allowing people to build up some capital while renting is a good one. Maybe they don’t buy the house but their rent or a portion of it goes into a fund only usable for a deposit on a property? Then say after five years renting socially people can get onto the ladder. You could take a tax on private landlords to do something similar.

I agree that helping people to build up a deposit is a good one, but maybe tenants should be allowed to have 100% mortgages if they can show that its due to paying rent that they have no deposit.

 

[shmmeee]

I agree that helping people to build up a deposit is a good one, but maybe tenants should be allowed to have 100% mortgages if they can show that its due to paying rent that they have no deposit.

Yeah I could go for that as well, some level of consistent rent payment at a similar level to the mortgage should be enough.

 

[duffer]

By all accounts rents are up as there’s now a shortage of rental stock available and due to changes in tax laws a few years back. There’s probably a bigger issue with second home/holiday rental properties which aren’t ever going to be fully utilised all year round and I think are now more attractive for tax purposes

The fact is we appear to not have enough housing stock. Without digging up past debates it’s why I’ve always questioned a more than relaxed immigration policy. I’m saying that understanding the benefits of net migration, especially as an ageing population. However If you have that you’ve got to have more relaxed/quicker/more encouraging planning permission, home building and public services infrastructure policies

Rents in this country are left entirely to the free market, unlike most other European nations, making it perilous and expensive.

This is one of the main reasons people want to buy their own homes.

Tories, of course, have no interest in addressing this.

Loosening planning laws per se won't resolve issues with social housing, you've only got to look at the sort of estates that are going up in the former green belt around Coventry to see that.

Resolving these issues will take proper thought, public investment, and legislative intervention; thinking the market will take care of it by having laxer planning permission is mostly about making the already well off a bit more wealthy.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Well where is the money coming from to subsidise the 50% of the property That the occupant doesn't own?

And if you don't take out a "massive loan" to purchase a home, and pay off that loan before you retire, then how on earth are you going to pay for the roof over your head on a state pension of less than 10k per year?

It does not come from taxation, no public spending is funded by taxation.

I think we're at cross purposes on the second point. My point is a general one that encouraging the population to become heavily indebted is ridiculous and benefits nobody. It's dreadful for the real economy as it just sucks money out of it.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Rents in this country are left entirely to the free market, unlike most other European nations, making it perilous and expensive.

This is one of the main reasons people want to buy their own homes.

Tories, of course, have no interest in addressing this.

Loosening planning laws per se won't resolve issues with social housing, you've only got to look at the sort of estates that are going up in the former green belt around Coventry to see that.

Resolving these issues will take proper thought, public investment, and legislative intervention; thinking the market will take care of it by having laxer planning permission is mostly about making the already well off a bit more wealthy.

Agree with some of this but my point is that there needs a number of things addressed as we have a shortage of all types of housing stock for a variety of reasons. my best mate has got a build to rent business (booooo ! I know). They’ve been trying to get something through planning in the north west for 18 months

The planning official wanted a roof garden/living wall on the 12 flat development (I shit you not)…it’s opposite one of those cash only car washes so hardly in a fancy area. They’re now stuck with town hall planning committee one of which was arguing for 20+ car spaces…which would make it impossible to build (again I’m not kidding)

This would’ve put more stock on the market and is now bordering on uneconomic to build due to inflation of building material prices, let alone the planning related issues.

It’s a shitshow.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Agree with some of this but my point is that there needs a number of things addressed as we have a shortage of all types of housing stock for a variety of reasons. my best mate has got a build to rent business (booooo ! I know). They’ve been trying to get something through planning in the north west for 18 months

The planning official wanted a roof garden on the 12 flat development (I shit you not)…it’s opposite one of those cash only car washes so hardly in a fancy area. They’re now stuck with town hall planning committee one of which was arguing for 20+ car spaces…which would make it impossible to build (again I’m not kidding)

This would’ve put more stock on the market and is now bordering on uneconomic to build due to inflation of building material prices, let alone the planning related issues.

It’s a shitshow.

20+ car spaces for 12 flats doesn't sound particularly daft?

 

[duffer]

Yeah I could go for that as well, some level of consistent rent payment at a similar level to the mortgage should be enough.

The mortgage lenders will be very reluctant to take on that kind of lending without some kind of guarantee. That's why you see interest rates rise on lending as the Loan-to-Value ratio increases.

Even if it worked, and the Government backed the loans, this would surely further inflate the housing bubble.

No easy answer to this one, but I'm drawn more to rent control and protection of tenancy.

Lower rents and safer tenancies make more sense to me, if you want to save a deposit. It also takes the pressure of feeling like you need to buy.

Selling social housing at a massive discount isn't the answer, imho.

 

[clint van damme]

and we don’t have the culture of managing your own investments like places like the states do.

It should be taught in schools. I'm sure there's some useless bollocks that could be dropped from the curriculum to accommodate it.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

It should be taught in schools. I'm sure there's some useless bollocks that could be dropped from the curriculum to accommodate it.

I have my bingo card waiting with the answers and who will say them...

 

[clint van damme]

Lower rents and safer tenancies make more sense to me, if you want to save a deposit. It also takes the pressure of feeling like you need to buy.

Selling social housing at a massive discount isn't the answer, imho.

I agree. Though another reason to buy currently is not to have housing costs going into old age.
Having such poor state pension feeds into this.

 

[CCFCSteve]

20+ car spaces for 12 flats doesn't sound particularly daft?

My mates never come across two spaces per flat requirement and he’s got a few developments up there and neither have I down here. I’ve lived in a few flats around city centre and many don’t even have one per flat these days as a lot of people who live in centres don’t have/want cars as they’re a younger demographic and live close to work.

 

[clint van damme]

Agree with some of this but my point is that there needs a number of things addressed as we have a shortage of all types of housing stock for a variety of reasons. my best mate has got a build to rent business (booooo ! I know). They’ve been trying to get something through planning in the north west for 18 months

The planning official wanted a roof garden/living wall on the 12 flat development (I shit you not)…it’s opposite one of those cash only car washes so hardly in a fancy area. They’re now stuck with town hall planning committee one of which was arguing for 20+ car spaces…which would make it impossible to build (again I’m not kidding)

This would’ve put more stock on the market and is now bordering on uneconomic to build due to inflation of building material prices, let alone the planning related issues.

It’s a shitshow.

This isnt in Cov I assume?

 

[CCFCSteve]

This isnt in Cov I assume?

No, I’m Birmingham and my mates North west

 

[Deleted member 5849]

My mates never come across two spaces per flat requirement and he’s got a few developments up there and neither have I down here. I’ve lived in a few flats around city centre and many don’t even have one per flat these days as a lot of people who live in centres don’t have/want cars as they’re a younger demographic and live close to work.

If you're adding people though, there won't be anywhere to park around the area for those who have a car / visit.

Of the flats I / relatives have lived in (London, Cardiff, Cov), it's always been one space allocated to each flat, plus a selection for visitors. It sounds reasonably standard to me? Certainly doesn't sound a wild and crazy requirement!

 

[fernandopartridge]

20+ car spaces for 12 flats doesn't sound particularly daft?

I'd say it is excessive

 

[CCFCSteve]

If you're adding people though, there won't be anywhere to park around the area for those who have a car / visit.

Of the flats I / relatives have lived in (London, Cardiff, Cov), it's always been one space allocated to each flat, plus a selection for visitors. It sounds reasonably standard to me? Certainly doesn't sound a wild and crazy requirement!

Two per flat though, even in the old days, no chance. As I say, around Birmingham these days many developments don’t even have one per flat.

We also live in a time when car ownership is changing, especially around town/city centres.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Two per flat though, even in the old days, no chance. As I say, around Birmingham these days many developments don’t even have one per flat.

We also live in a time when car ownership is changing, especially around town/city centres.

20+ doesn't have to be two per flat, though.

 

[Grendel]

There is this belief that uk is disproportionately skewed to home ownership but other than Germany are we?

 

[shmmeee]

There is this belief that uk is disproportionately skewed to home ownership but other than Germany are we?

We’re about in the middle for the EU IIRC

 

[Grendel]

We’re about in the middle for the EU IIRC

What surprises the likes of Italy have higher home ownership and France broadly the same. I’d always assumed from what has been said we are odd in home ownership but we don’t seem to be at all

 

[fatso]

Perhaps introducing prohibitive taxes on income from second homes would encourage people to off load those properties, and therefore going some of the way to redressing the demand vs supply issue that's pushing up prices.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

What surprises the likes of Italy have higher home ownership and France broadly the same. I’d always assumed from what has been said we are odd in home ownership but we don’t seem to be at all

How do we compare in purchase prices against salaries? (open question btw, as I don't know the answer!)

 

[Grendel]

Perhaps introducing prohibitive taxes on income from second homes would encourage people to off load those properties, and therefore going some of the way to redressing the demand vs supply issue that's pushing up prices.

Sky blue Pete hasn’t offered his opinion on second home ownership yet

 

[shmmeee]

How do we compare in purchase prices against salaries? (open question btw, as I don't know the answer!)

Again about half way

 

[shmmeee]

This is the real problem:

 

[Grendel]

How do we compare in purchase prices against salaries? (open question btw, as I don't know the answer!)

there’s a whole number of factors though is t there? Interest rates massively impact house prices as well. Thing is we are pretty normal

 

[Deleted member 5849]

there’s a whole number of factors though is t there?

So there might be, but that still doesn't alter the fact I wanted to know the answer, and didn't know the answer until shmmeee posted it!

 

[Grendel]

So there might be, but that still doesn't alter the fact I wanted to know the answer, and didn't know the answer until shmmeee posted it!

Thats still not the answer though is it as I would also assume we have more multi people rentals in this country (different families) than some others - especially in large cities house sharing is very common for renters

I personally see zero point in renting at all unless it’s a massive high interest economy.

Those days here are long gone. Property value escalates and over a period of time and you can downsize can be a significant contribution to your retirement income if you over pay mortgages and bring it down as quick as you can

Renting has zero asset value for you or your family. As an investment strategy it’s bonkers

Germany have a low price rental market and also has had negative interest rates so it costs you to have money in a bank.

Private renting in the uk is I would assume penalised more than in Europe - CGT tax disadvantages and strict regulation. I looked at buying a couple of houses and renting out but the red tape was just a nightmare. Literally not worth doing.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Thats still not the answer though is it

What other answer to my question are you expecting other than the house prices to income ratio chart?!?