Otis
Well-Known Member
Truss 2 v 1 Sunak
Truss 2 v 1 Sunakis it half time? What’s the score?
He banned front benchers from attending picket lines but allowed Lammy to go on TV spouting shite.
And the problem isn't that he isn't left wing enough, the problem is he's an untrustworthy liar.
There's no point in me saying the tories are untrustworthy liars we need them, so I'm going to vote for an untrustworthy liar to replace them.
So no, you can’t then.
An MPs job isn’t to picket, it’s to pass or protect laws that allow picketing to happen. If we were in govenrment would you want the PM on the picket line of every industrial dispute?
He banned front benchers from attending picket lines but allowed Lammy to go on TV spouting shite.
And the problem isn't that he isn't left wing enough, the problem is he's an untrustworthy liar.
There's no point in me saying the tories are untrustworthy liars we need them, so I'm going to vote for an untrustworthy liar to replace them.
Labour and the Tories are the same actually. Iamverysmart
And that was an attempt at stopping Labour being painted as 70s "lefties2 by the press. The rights and wrongs of that are a completely different conversation. To say that it is proof that Starmer doesn't support workers rights is utter bullshit.
I get Starmer isn't Corbyn, he's not a huge political drain on the party.
Hmm.He told front benchers not to attend picket lines.
And I know you'll say you've got to play the game but he didn't warn front benchers not to trash strikers or BA workers who were trying get pay reinstated.
And the Mail ran a story saying he secretly supported the strikes so the right wing press put the booting anyway and Starmer distances himself from working people trying to better their lot in about of living crisis, that's not a Labour leader in my book.
You centrists are obsessed with Corbyn.
And as I stated, it didn't stop the press painting the party as '70s leftists' anyway.
If Starmer is scared of what they'll say about him now, wait until the election draws near.
I'm far from a fucking centrist. Weak to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of being a "centrist".
I just think any Labour government will be a million times than a Tory one and the UK isn't going to elect a "left" labour party so we need to be more moderate and left of centre.
It's about winning elections as without that it's just a 6th form debating society
Again, I would vote for a Labour Party that was more centrist if it had a decent leader who wasn't full of bullshit and actually stood for something.
Starmer drew me in, but time after time he's reneged on it until he's lost me.
Fine, you can vote for who you want. Running around calling anyone who disagrees with you a "centrist" is still the behaviour of a melt though
Perhaps if people didn't keep bringing an aging independent from Islington there'd be no need.
If people wouldn't keep wishing he was the leader he wouldn't be mentioned.
Anyway, it's fucking nonsense to say Starmer doesn't care about workers rights.
If people wouldn't keep wishing he was the leader he wouldn't be mentioned.
Anyway, it's fucking nonsense to say Starmer doesn't care about workers rights.
It lost 2010 and 2015 from the centre, it isn't a guarantee of success and long term is a disaster. The last Labour government could have made fundamental changes but instead went with a load of 3rd way market driven rubbish, NHS internal markets, PFI, privatisation of services everywhere.I'm far from a fucking centrist. Weak to accuse everyone who doesn't agree with you of being a "centrist".
I just think any Labour government will be a million times better than a Tory one and the UK isn't going to elect a "left" labour party so we need to be more moderate and left of centre.
It's about winning elections as without that it's just a 6th form debating society
Boring match?
I don't wish he was still leader. And I never mentioned him, I started off asking a simple question, why did Starmer make a pledge about renationisation if he was going to renege on it?
I haven't had a satisfactory answer, Starmer himself blamed Covid, Shmmeee said something about Corbyn that didn't make sense in relation to the question.
Andin my opinion, he doesn't give a fuck about workers rights, (remember him scoffing about the striking Coventry bin lorry drivers?), if you believe him, fair enough, but he's not convinced me.
In fact, that's wrong, he did have me convinced, but based on what I've seen since he's changed my mind.
You can have your opinion, it's nonsense but you can have your opinion.
I would like some actual evidence to back up what you say though.
Well you can get the evidence about renationalisation from reading his pledge and listening to what he's had to say this week.
I've made my mind up about his stance on workers right based onthe last few weeks.
Liz Truss says she's going to shred all EU climate legislation.
Liz Truss say under her the UK will meet its 2050 net zero targets.
Do you believe her on the second statement?
Guardian opinion writers and that’s about it.It lost 2010 and 2015 from the centre, it isn't a guarantee of success and long term is a disaster. The last Labour government could have made fundamental changes but instead went with a load of 3rd way market driven rubbish, NHS internal markets, PFI, privatisation of services everywhere.
Who actually wants any more of that shit?
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What?
If you have made up your mind can you kindly point me in the direction on him saying he doesn't?
The Truss part of your post makes me feel there isn't actually any evidence just you have decided this. That's a valid opinion, utter nonsense though but a valid opinion to have,
the "evidence" was to be fair at best piss weak, there is nothing to actually contradict the "new deal for uk workers" which is labours employment policy. Those "big promises" are still policy.I've given you my evidence, you don't think it points to the conclusions I've come to, fair enough, but what evidence do you have that he does care about workers rights?
He made a lot of big promises the union conference last year but he's changed his mind on issues since then, why can't he do it on this and hide behind covid?
the "evidence" was to be fair at best piss weak, there is nothing to actually contradict the "new deal for uk workers" which is labours employment policy. Those "big promises" are still policy.
Sorry but you are talking utter shite, I have no interest in changing your mind but you have no evidence. End of
ok, you think he's changed his then.So your evidence is something said by a proven liar who this week has changed his mind on another policy and blamed covid.
Fair enough if you trust him but your evidence is no more concrete than mine. Do you think the unions still think he'll deliver?
And I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on this because the working men and women of this country have had far too much shit for too long and paid for the mistakes and greed of others but I don't trust him to be their champuon.
ok, you think he's changed his then.
that make more sense
So your evidence is something said by a proven liar who this week has changed his mind on another policy and blamed covid.
Fair enough if you trust him but your evidence is no more concrete than mine. Do you think the unions still think he'll deliver?
And I'd be very happy to be proven wrong on this because the working men and women of this country have had far too much shit for too long and paid for the mistakes and greed of others but I don't trust him to be their champuon.
there isn't any evidence that starmer doesn't support workers rights but you feel he has changed his mindNot sure what you mean?
I've been saying that all along (regarding nationalisation).
Well we had Unite threatening to pull their funding for Labour over the bin strikes. Speaking to the president of my union he said 'we can't rely on Labour anymore so we'll have to do things ourselves'.
On the other hand Mick Lynch has still been saying he really wants Starmer to win but wishes he would at least appear to support working people. Johnson was right on one thing-we still haven't heard really what Starmer's putting forward as an alternative. Part because he never gives his opinion, part because he thinks it's too early to get some policy ideas out.
I know Sharon Graham has been very critical of the party and as you said, wants to reduce funding.
I've not heard her dire try having a go at Starmer though she may have.
she's had a mare and has been very quiet since she got bodied by that peak starmerphile jon lansmanI know Sharon Graham has been very critical of the party and as you said, wants to reduce funding.
I've not heard her dire try having a go at Starmer though she may have.
she's had a mare and has been very quiet since she got bodied by that peak starmerphile jon lansman
unite funds are going nowhere
big if, there has been no movement of note to do thatWell that is until the membership votes to pull them. I mean if Labour aren't openly pro union what's the point in unions contributing millions of pounds to the party?
Her job is to serve the wishes of her members.she's had a mare and has been very quiet since she got bodied by that peak starmerphile jon lansman
unite funds are going nowhere
big if, there has been no movement of note to do that
as lansman it's better to push for change inside the tent than storming off and having no say at all
unite are currently still quite powerful within the party with a large "block vote" and a seat on the NEC
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