Do you want to discuss boring politics? (118 Viewers)

chiefdave · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
A while ago I put forward my personal policy preferences, mainly aimed at getting more cash into working people’s pockets. G said it was pointless as it wasn’t a vote winner and Evo says nobody reads the manifesto anyway.

That's the frustrating thing. We're back to the unanswered why do people vote Conservative again. Plenty of reasons not to vote Labour are given but any points about policy or anything against the Conservatives and its dismissed as something people aren't interested in.

Not sure I buy that people are paying attention to everything that Labour do but happily ignore anything the Conservatives do. That just seems a long winded way of saying 'voters are stupid' which isn't a route I'm keen to go down.

Don't buy the Labour out voters off by saying they're stupid argument either when you're got things like Rees-Mogg going on the radio saying the victims of Grenfell only had themselves to blame for lacking common sense.

Evo1883 · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Forever, the pro UK vote is split 3 ways but the pro independence vote is united.

They won't be an independent nation any time soon ...I'd wager on that

CCFCSteve · May 4, 2021

I think people are getting a little carried away. These are strange times with the pandemic and politics can change very quickly. If Labour get rid of starmer after a year it would be crazy (same as if Tories try to push Johnson out - I can’t see an alternative election winning leader in waiting...although Gove probably thinks he is !) Elections are all about match ups, does a May beat Starmer, doubt it

Labour just need to be seen to be listening to their (historical) core base. If there isn’t much ‘levelling up’ in the North by the next election they can win a lot of this support back.

Also, Johnson has always got a fuck up in him so, as I say, things can change very quickly

Ps it will be interesting to see if the current independence polling in Scotland is reflected in Thursdays results.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
They won't be an independent nation any time soon ...I'd wager on that

I forecast Scotland, NI or both will be gone by 2030.

Evo1883 · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I forecast Scotland, NI or both will be gone by 2030.

100 pound wager ? Any charity

Let's be honest we will still be here talking bollocks then

Deleted member 5849 · May 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Can you honestly not see how Johnson is popular? Seriously?

I thought we all knew cunts like this who everyone loves for no reason *cough* my sales director *cough*

tbf, he's also why Labour aren't dead. At some point he'll self destruct, and if they pick the wrong uncharismatic buffoon, then people won;t forgive what they do now.

(Of course, each time I think we can't get a worse Tory PM, we do...!)

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Alot of people don't do they , even many Labour voters don't...like me most of the time , I'm proof of that

So why would hammering home the manifesto promises be a good idea?

Deleted member 5849 · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I forecast Scotland, NI or both will be gone by 2030.

Two hours' time?!?

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
100 pound wager ? Any charity

Let's be honest we will still be here talking bollocks then

£100 is a bit steep. Tenner?

Evo1883 · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
So why would hammering home the manifesto promises be a good idea?

Put it into people minds ...get people thinking ..otherwise you are just another politician .

You have resonate with people especially those you need to win

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

CCFCSteve said:
I think people are getting a little carried away. These are strange times with the pandemic and politics can change very quickly. If Labour get rid of starmer after a year it would be crazy (same as if Tories try to push Johnson out - I can’t see an alternative election winning leader in waiting...although Gove probably thinks he is !) Elections are all about match ups, does a May beat Starmer, doubt it

Labour just need to be seen to be listening to their (historical) core base. If there isn’t much ‘levelling up’ in the North by the next election they can win a lot of this support back.

Also, Johnson has always got a fuck up in him so, as I say, things can change very quickly

Ps it will be interesting to see if the current independence polling in Scotland is reflected in Thursdays results.

I think Labour could well become the opposition party again assuming that Sarwar keeps his recent good work going

Evo1883 · May 4, 2021

Deleted my analogy , it was so bad that even I went red

Deleted member 5849 · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Deleted my analogy , it was so bad that even I went red

I'll be gracious and do likewise

It’sabatch87 · May 4, 2021

Labour may as well get Joe Anderson in he’s a nice law abiding nice guy!!

Evo1883 · May 4, 2021

Deleted member 5849 said:
I'll be gracious and do likewise

Cheers mate , right back to football for me now , I like to think I have some knowledge in that area

PVA · May 4, 2021

But this argument doesn't stick when you consider Johnson's comments about the working class and that several members of the cabinet LITERALLY WROTE A BOOK slagging off the working class.

The double standards are ridiculous.

clint van damme · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
For now, they will have to answer to their failings in Scotland at some point

Lets hope the same applies to the tories.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
Put it into people minds ...get people thinking ..otherwise you are just another politician .

You have resonate with people especially those you need to win

Corbyn was all about it, it made no difference.

My grandad was from a miner’s family in the NE, voted Labour his whole life despite ultimately becoming quite well off for most of it. His view was all around the idea that wealth in general should be more evenly shared and he was happy to pay a bit more in taxes as part of that. Then in 2019 that neck of the woods all goes Tory after having ruined the area economically and spending 10 years not investing in it.

Not going to lie I shed a tear when I saw those Co. Durham constituencies going blue and for Hartlepool to follow just makes me glad the old man isn’t around to see it. Such good people in that part of the world

Ian1779 · May 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
The only thing I’m holding on to is the hope that there’s some kind of critical mass of left wing people fucked off with the screaming children that are the modern online left and we have some kind of Kinnock V Militant scenario where they all get kicked out or shut up, can’t see it though.

Can’t see a centrist party breaking through either. I worry it’ll be racists Vs snowflakes for good. Somethings got to give surely? The vast majority of people aren’t like either extreme.

There are lots of good and decent people that get categorised into this group. People that want parity and fairness, the chance of a decent life for all. When did it become so ‘loony’ to want everyone to have the chance to get on the housing ladder (or have enough houses at the very least), have a properly funded NHS and Education system? I know America is a basket case that calls universal healthcare ‘communism’ but is this where we are descending towards?

clint van damme · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
I forecast Scotland, NI or both will be gone by 2030.

I wouldn't say its inevitable but if one goes both will.

Ian1779 · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Corbyn was all about it, it made no difference.

My grandad was from a miner’s family in the NE, voted Labour his whole life despite ultimately becoming quite well off for most of it. His view was all around the idea that wealth in general should be more evenly shared and he was happy to pay a bit more in taxes as part of that. Then in 2019 that neck of the woods all goes Tory after having ruined the area economically and spending 10 years not investing in it.

Not going to lie I shed a tear when I saw those Co. Durham constituencies going blue and for Hartlepool to follow just makes me glad the old man isn’t around to see it. Such good people in that part of the world

For all his faults (and there were plenty) he did have a narrative that people wanted to listen to. Starmer would be in a stronger position if he didn’t try so hard to move away from some of his ideas.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

clint van damme said:
I wouldn't say its inevitable but if one goes both will.

If one goes we’ll have 3 countries on one island in no time

Evo1883 · May 4, 2021

The media did a good job on corbyn to be fair

shmmeee · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The media did a good job on corbyn to be fair

Sort of. They were doing it 2015-2017 to no effect. It was only after the Skripol stuff when Corbyn went mental and started defending Russia that the public mood on him changed.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 4, 2021

Ian1779 said:
There are lots of good and decent people that get categorised into this group. People that want parity and fairness, the chance of a decent life for all. When did it become so ‘loony’ to want everyone to have the chance to get on the housing ladder (or have enough houses at the very least), have a properly funded NHS and Education system? I know America is a basket case that calls universal healthcare ‘communism’ but is this where we are descending towards?

It isn't at all, but the fact Labour keep consistently getting rejected by the electorate should show that there is a really, really big problem. Especially when the opposition are a bunch of cunts that those people probably don't really want to vote for either.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

Evo1883 said:
The media did a good job on corbyn to be fair

Well the big thing in 2017 was Corbyn saying he’d respect the Brexit vote compared to 2019 when he’d lost the plot. 2017 was him at his best I think, with a great manifesto to go with it.

clint van damme · May 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Sort of. They were doing it 2015-2017 to no effect. It was only after the Skripol stuff when Corbyn went mental and started defending Russia that the public mood on him changed.

And again you have to say, no one give the tories Russian connections that much scrutiny.
Johnson celebrated his election victory with Lebedev junior.
He plays tennis with oligarchs wives!

clint van damme · May 4, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It isn't at all, but the fact Labour keep consistently getting rejected by the electorate should show that there is a really, really big problem. Especially when the opposition are a bunch of cunts that those people probably don't really want to vote for either.

So why vote for them?
Why not abstain?

clint van damme · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well the big thing in 2017 was Corbyn saying he’d respect the Brexit vote compared to 2019 when he’d lost the plot. 2017 was him at his best I think, with a great manifesto to go with it.

Yeah. He showed lot of weakness in 2019. Indisputable.

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 · May 4, 2021

clint van damme said:
So why vote for them?
Why not abstain?

I did abstain in the last one actually, stand down sir!

Know what you mean though.

shmmeee · May 4, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
It isn't at all, but the fact Labour keep consistently getting rejected by the electorate should show that there is a really, really big problem. Especially when the opposition are a bunch of cunts that those people probably don't really want to vote for either.

A bit of perspective here. 2015 was the first GE the Tories had won in more than 20 years. Post Brexit the entire country has been split almost exactly down the middle and the difference is mostly down to leaders and splitting of the vote.

In normal electoral times we’d be here just after the Tories had won a second term and crying about “the end of Labour” would be seen at the bed wetting/trolling it is.

shmmeee · May 4, 2021

Brighton Sky Blue said:
Well the big thing in 2017 was Corbyn saying he’d respect the Brexit vote compared to 2019 when he’d lost the plot. 2017 was him at his best I think, with a great manifesto to go with it.

Bit of reality needed here too. 2017 was a Brexit election where half the country gave us their vote by default and we ran against the worst Tory GE campaign in living memory and still lost.

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
A bit of perspective here. 2015 was the first GE the Tories had won in more than 20 years. Post Brexit the entire country has been split almost exactly down the middle and the difference is mostly down to leaders and splitting of the vote.

In normal electoral times we’d be here just after the Tories had won a second term and crying about “the end of Labour” would be seen at the bed wetting/trolling it is.

Because as Scotland showed when Labour loses heartland votes they never get them back.

clint van damme · May 4, 2021

Earlsdon_Skyblue1 said:
I did abstain in the last one actually, stand down sir!

Know what you mean though.

You said people don't want to vote tory, but they are.
My question wasn't aimed at you personally but more why is anyone who doesn't like either party just not abstaining?

Brighton Sky Blue · May 4, 2021

shmmeee said:
Bit of reality needed here too. 2017 was a Brexit election where half the country gave us their vote by default and we ran against the worst Tory GE campaign in living memory and still lost.

But the northern seats were retained and even a good number of Scottish ones were regained.

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