Do you want to discuss boring politics? (23 Viewers)

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Seems like the banking crisis all over again without any lessons learned.
Not really. The banking crisis was caused by deregulation and greed from within the banking industry. It was a self inflicted crisis on banking that we had to pay price for. If your local chippy shuts down because they can’t afford to buy the potatoes, fish, oil, flour etc as well as turn the fryers on due to outside forces and then sell with an operating profit in a cost of living crisis that means consumer confidence and spending is low your local chippy isn’t causing the problem. We are making it easy for bankers to repeat past mistakes though. Maybe that’s the unlearned lesson you’re talking about, the lesson of not handing bankers the keys to the sweet shop.
 

Philosoraptor

Well-Known Member
Not really. The banking crisis was caused by deregulation and greed from within the banking industry. It was a self inflicted crisis on banking that we had to pay price for. If your local chippy shuts down because they can’t afford to buy the potatoes, fish, oil, flour etc as well as turn the fryers on due to outside forces and then sell with an operating profit in a cost of living crisis that means consumer confidence and spending is low your local chippy isn’t causing the problem. We are making it easy for bankers to repeat past mistakes though. Maybe that’s the unlearned lesson you’re talking about, the lesson of not handing bankers the keys to the sweet shop.

Small business support.
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
Not really. The banking crisis was caused by deregulation and greed from within the banking industry. It was a self inflicted crisis on banking that we had to pay price for. If your local chippy shuts down because they can’t afford to buy the potatoes, fish, oil, flour etc as well as turn the fryers on due to outside forces and then sell with an operating profit in a cost of living crisis that means consumer confidence and spending is low your local chippy isn’t causing the problem. We are making it easy for bankers to repeat past mistakes though. Maybe that’s the unlearned lesson you’re talking about, the lesson of not handing bankers the keys to the sweet shop.

What’s going on is the old MLK adage

Socialism for the rich, rugid individualism for the poor
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
But..but...Grendel said it was mad and businesses would never go for it because it would destroy productivity and harm the economy.

Surely he can't be wrong again?

Oh yes a survey of a tiny few companies and its a policy that is happening - really going to work in manufacturing sectors isn't it with JIT delivery, education, transport, retail etc. Lets see how many companies "go for it" shall we
 

fernandopartridge

Well-Known Member
Oh yes a survey of a tiny few companies and its a policy that is happening - really going to work in manufacturing sectors isn't it with JIT delivery, education, transport, retail etc. Lets see how many companies "go for it" shall we

I don't think a 4 day week necessarily means businesses are all closed down for a day a week, it means that employees work for 4 days rather than 5 and this will spread across a week
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I don't think a 4 day week necessarily means businesses are all closed down for a day a week, it means that employees work for 4 days rather than 5 and this will spread across a week

Which is impossible for most SME's and other organisations without increasing staff - which in turn increases overheads.

It would be interesting to see if the people actually work the same number of hours but across 4 days.
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
I see a Tory MP admitted on News Night last night that dropping the cap on bankers bonuses is to try and win back business that left the UK for the EU because of Brexit. Madness. Sold as a brexit bonus not a desperate response to the damage done by brexit.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Funny, as I thought the authorities told us we're run by woke lefties and liberals.

But as I said earlier, if we give them even a modicum of help it's nowhere near true capitalism at all. If it happened it'd be a massive shock to the system for those that swear by it.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Oh yes a survey of a tiny few companies and its a policy that is happening - really going to work in manufacturing sectors isn't it with JIT delivery, education, transport, retail etc. Lets see how many companies "go for it" shall we

Or...they employ more workers to keep the place open every day they want to be open. I thought you wanted more jobs?

A lot of places still close for the weekend. Why is people having two days not working a week fine but three an absolute catastrophe for the economy?

Would you rather an employ doing 25 hours a week but fully focused on the job or doing 35 hour and spends most it not giving a shit?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Or...they employ more workers to keep the place open every day they want to be open. I thought you wanted more jobs?

A lot of places still close for the weekend. Why is people having two days not working a week fine but three an absolute catastrophe for the economy?

Would you rather an employ doing 25 hours a week but fully focused on the job or doing 35 hour and spends most it not giving a shit?

Spoke like someone who clearly has never run anything in his life
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Of course its not just small companies that have trialled a 4 day week. I don't think anyone is suggesting it will work for every single company or we can switch over instantly but it does seem the most, if not all, trials have similar results.
Microsoft tested out a four-day work week in its Japan offices and found as a result employees were not only happier – but significantly more productive.

For the month of August, Microsoft Japan experimented with a new project called Work-Life Choice Challenge Summer 2019, giving its entire 2,300-person workforce five Fridays off in a row without decreasing pay.

The shortened weeks led to more efficient meetings, happier workers and boosted productivity by a staggering 40%, the company concluded at the end of the trial. As part of the program, the company had also planned to subsidize family vacations for employees up to ¥100,000 or $920.

“Work a short time, rest well and learn a lot,” Microsoft Japan president and CEO Takuya Hirano said in a statement to Microsoft Japan’s website. “I want employees to think about and experience how they can achieve the same results with 20% less working time.”

In addition to the increased productivity, employees took 25% less time off during the trial and electricity use was down 23% in the office with the additional day off per week. Employees printed 59% fewer pages of paper during the trial. The vast majority of employees – 92% – said they liked the shorter week.
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Of course its not just small companies that have trialled a 4 day week. I don't think anyone is suggesting it will work for every single company or we can switch over instantly but it does seem the most, if not all, trials have similar results.

Of course its not just small companies that have trialled a 4 day week. I don't think anyone is suggesting it will work for every single company or we can switch over instantly but it does seem the most, if not all, trials have similar results.

Some companies in Japan are reducing pay by 20% and allowing employees to take other jobs who sign up to a 4 day week - ok with that?
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Some companies in Japan are reducing pay by 20% and allowing employees to take other jobs who sign up to a 4 day week - ok with that?
Would certainly be interested to see if those companies have the same productivity increase as those moving to a 4 day week with no pay decrease. Have you got a link to the data?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
Would certainly be interested to see if those companies have the same productivity increase as those moving to a 4 day week with no pay decrease. Have you got a link to the data?

Well your link shows no actual data
 

chiefdave

Well-Known Member
Well your link shows no actual data
I thought quoting a news article would be preferable to posting the source data but here it is
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I thought quoting a news article would be preferable to posting the source data but here it is

what about the others that reduce lay Dave are you ok with that?
 

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
Some companies in Japan are reducing pay by 20% and allowing employees to take other jobs who sign up to a 4 day week - ok with that?
Japan infamously has some of the most demanding working hours in the world. It drives the suicide rate so much that they’ve invented a new word for suicide brought on from overworking, karoshi.

You have literally (no doubt deliberately) picked the worst possible country to draw comparisons too. If you wanted to draw a genuine comparison you should look a countries with similar cultures, try Denmark or another Scandinavian country.
 

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
Spoke like someone who clearly has never run anything in his life
So are you telling me big companies would go to the wall if they had to employ more people to cover the extra days?

Or are you once again mistaking owners wanting excessive returns for a business being unable to function?
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
I'd like to see the details and if they are seeing similar increases in productivity

I think probably your main interest is working less for the same money
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
So are you telling me big companies would go to the wall if they had to employ more people to cover the extra days?

Or are you once again mistaking owners wanting excessive returns for a business being unable to function?

Most companies aren’t big and can you tell me where these people are actually coming from to work? Are we going to have a mass reproduction programme?

What do you actually do for a living?
 

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
I don't understand how taking money out of peoples pockets when they're struggling to pay for the basics like heat and food is going to help?

At the moment inflation is so far above interest rates people can borrow 100000 to buy an asset at say 3% so you’d pay 103,000 back next year and the assets worth 110000 due to 10% inflation. That encourages more borrowing/spending ….thereby pushing up prices and maintaining inflation.

What’s more of an issue though is if BoE doesn’t raise rates the pound will weaken against the dollar as the fed is raising rates aggressively to calm their inflation. Their inflation is more demand driven, than energy driven like ours (from ridiculous Covid cheques paid out by Trump and Biden, money printing etc this has been exacerbated by supply chain issues). Weaker pound means imports, like oil, become more expensive, again, pushing up inflation

The last thing BoE and ECB want is raising interest rates into recession but their hands are tied. Ultimately inflation hurts the poorest more than interest rate rises
 

Grendel

Well-Known Member
But with increased productivity obviously… thought you’d be all over that

In sure if a graph showing extra productivity is achieved by working an extra day or a Sunday in lieu the same people would agree to do it as clearly the company that feeds these people comes first
 

Brighton Sky Blue

Well-Known Member
In sure if a graph showing extra productivity is achieved by working an extra day or a Sunday in lieu the same people would agree to do it as clearly the company that feeds these people comes first

Think the evidence shows that counter productivity kicks in after a maximum of 55 hours
 

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