skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Who said open the borders? You’re adding your own context. Like I said, there is an adult conversation to be had about immigration and effects on the NHS. You clearly don’t want to have it though.
Who said open the borders? You’re adding your own context. Like I said, there is an adult conversation to be had about immigration and effects on the NHS. You clearly don’t want to have it though.Oh yes, that argument. Immigrants can work in the NHS, let's open the borders.
Immigration isn't going to double the UK population any time soon - in fact it's pretty much the only thing stopping the population of the UK from falling every year. Is that something you would rather see happen?How is it irrevent? If we double the population the ambulance queues are going to go down are they?
Immigration isn't going to double the UK population any time soon - in fact it's pretty much the only thing stopping the population of the UK from falling every year. Is that something you would rather see happen?
Who said open the borders? You’re adding your own context. Like I said, there is an adult conversation to be had about immigration and effects on the NHS. You clearly don’t want to have it though.
Do you think there should be any limits on immigration?
If you’re having to invent ridiculous scenarios to make your argument you really don’t have an argument.How is it irrevent? If we double the population the ambulance queues are going to go down are they?
There is limits on immigration. You’re getting angry over fantasy.Do you think there should be any limits on immigration?
This is more an argument for killing off pensioners than preventing immigrants.
I have my issues with mass immigration, mostly social cohesion and ghettoisation. But economics ain’t one of them. By any measure they’re a net good. Tend to be some of the most productive members of society, already had their education paid for, not yet a burden on pension and health systems because of their age.
Migration actually brings in a net benefit of taxes, meaning more money to spend on services such as the health service than if they weren't there and, as it's a net benefit (they put in more than they take out), then that means an improvement in services is possible compared to if they weren't igrating to the UK.
As for whether the NHS is worse than during a pandemic? It probably isn't (I've had lots of personal experience of waiting in and around casualty the past 2-3 years) but attention is now focussed on it, without a 'reason' for government to hide behind. It's a shame that support has only extended to clapping on doorsteps, really.
Do you think there should be any immigration?
There is limits on immigration. You’re getting angry over fantasy.
But bringing in more money than they take out = more money for NHS. So they could use that to increase capacity to cover the increase in population.It isn't any fancy kind of thinking. It is simple common sense. More people = more strain on the health service. If the capacity of services aren't growing at the same rate, then something has got to give. If you cannot understand that then I think it is you that probably needs to have a word.
Well the pandemic did a good job of that, which is an uncomfortable conversation many people still don't want to have. The virus didn't really have much direct effect on the young/moderate ages, but for the older population it had a massive impact. Are immigrants contributing to the NHS more than pensioners? I am sure they are, but that still doesn't mean that all immigrants are positively contributing to it.
So by your own admission the fault is not with the immigrants. It's with the politicians.It doesn't matter. We all know the government cannot be trusted to spend the money properly. More people = more demands from the health service. It is extremely basic, but some people cannot possibly bring themselves to challenge the level of immigration so they end up coming out with absolutely crackpot nonsense.
Absolutely. I just think the notion that mass migration has no effect on the health system is utter nonsense.
What do you think the effect of a British baby boom would be on the health system? Let’s say we all knock up the missus tomorrow, in 20 years would the healthcare system be better or worse?
So blame the government that hasn't invested the money that they've gained from migrants, not the migrants. And if you do that, then mentioning immigration is totally redundant as they're no burden on the health service relative to indiginous population and are, in fact, a net benefit.All this takes years and we’ve never caught up.
So by your own admission the fault is not with the immigrants. It's with the politicians.
So disincentives for people having kids to go hand-in-hand with tighter immigration controls then, right?It would be worse. It is a population growth issue at a rate that the infrastructure cannot keep up with. Immigration at the level it has been at for a long time now, is a massive contributor to that.
Of course I do. I’m just willing to look at the full picture so I can form a balanced opinion. Such as you can’t acknowledge that immigration adds to patient numbers without also acknowledging that immigrants pay tax which contributes to the NHS budget and 16.5% of NHS staff are themselves immigrants. How would the NHS cope if it lost almost a fifth of its staff? You seem to have been indoctrinated to only see immigration as a negative so you’re incapable of seeing the benefits.No, I am asking you. Do you think there should be any limits on immigration?
So blame the government that hasn't invested the money that they've gained from migrants, not the migrants.
Heard something on the radio the other day that the NHS needs a 5% budget increase year on year just to maintain it’s budget in real terms. It’s apparently averaged 1% a year since the Tories came into power.So blame the government that hasn't invested the money that they've gained from migrants, not the migrants. And if you do that, then mentioning immigration is totally redundant as they're no burden on the health service relative to indiginous population and are, in fact, a net benefit.
Of course I do. I’m just willing to look at the full picture so I can form a balanced opinion. Such as you can’t acknowledge that immigration adds to patient numbers without also acknowledging that immigrants pay tax which contributes to the NHS budget and 16.5% of NHS staff are themselves immigrants. How would the NHS cope if it lost almost a fifth of its staff? You seem to have been indoctrinated to only see immigration as a negative so you’re incapable of seeing the benefits.
Heard something on the radio the other day that the NHS needs a 5% budget increase year on year just to maintain a real terms maintenance of its budget. It’s apparently averaged 1% a year since the Tories came into power.
It's far more than politicians 'don't help' - they are actively the problem.The politicians certainly don't help, but as has been said to death, if the infrastructure cannot keep up, something has to give. Therefore a growing society, massively impacted by the numbers of people coming into the country, has a humongous effect on a struggling health service.
So blame the government that hasn't invested the money that they've gained from migrants, not the migrants. And if you do that, then mentioning immigration is totally redundant as they're no burden on the health service relative to indiginous population and are, in fact, a net benefit.
It would be worse. It is a population growth issue at a rate that the infrastructure cannot keep up with. Immigration at the level it has been at for a long time now, is a massive contributor to that.
The population growing is irrelevant. It can’t even maintain a stagnant population and that’s the real issue.Right, so if we take your figures and give them the benefit of the doubt, the budget is therefore shrinking by 4% a year.
How can the NHS then support a population that is growing?
Why can’t infrastructure keep up with it?
It's far more than politicians 'don't help' - they are actively the problem.
The infrastructure can't keep up, but immigrants are net contributors meaning that they are putting in funding to increase and improve that infrastructure.
How much do you think could've been done with the money that was wasted on Test and Trace? How many nurses, doctors and hospitals could that money have provided?
There are way more native people who have a negative impact on the standard and capacity of infrastructure in this country than immigrants;
the wealthy for actively avoiding paying a fair share for the huge benefits they gain from society
those who choose to be economically inactive and take out more than they have contributed
the politicians and power brokers for letting them get away with it.
By getting the government to put that money that the immigrants put in towards the NHS so it can support the growing population.Right, so if we take your figures and give them the benefit of the doubt, the budget is therefore shrinking by 4% a year.
How can the NHS then support a population that is growing?
Have you seen how long it takes to build stuff in this country ?!
Have you seen how long it takes to build stuff in this country ?!
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