Do you want to discuss boring politics? (261 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No one seems to have mentioned that I think Mr Corbyn is the first political leader since Jeremy Thorpe to be told he’s not fit to stand as a party candidate at a general election - I’m not sure Thorpe even had that

It seems Starmer acknowledges his predecessors anti Jewish stance and not acceptable

No one I’m sure disagrees

I completely agree

 

---

[dutchman]

Harold Wilson and Michael Foot were once expelled from the Labour Party, whatever happened to them?

 

[Astute]

Harold Wilson and Michael Foot were once expelled from the Labour Party, whatever happened to them?

They both passed away.

 

[shmmeee]

Mhairi Black is quite marmite. I’m not sure she’d hold the party together that well.

Does the leader need to be an MSP or would an MP work? Just thinking about where they’re best seen.

 

[shmmeee]

Genuinely not sure with Corbyn if he knows the rules don’t allow him to stand and he’s causing trouble or if he genuinely thinks his CLP can select him.

 

[fernandopartridge]

No one seems to have mentioned that I think Mr Corbyn is the first political leader since Jeremy Thorpe to be told he’s not fit to stand as a party candidate at a general election - I’m not sure Thorpe even had that

It seems Starmer acknowledges his predecessors anti Jewish stance and not acceptable

No one I’m sure disagrees

Come off it, it's utter nonsense

 

[Grendel]

Come off it, it's utter nonsense

“That door is open and if you don’t like it leave the room now”

 

[fernandopartridge]

“That door is open and if you don’t like it leave the room now”

I think that extends to Jewish Labour members who happened to support Corbyn as well. That's fine though as they are not real Jews.



So much for the broad church (or synagogue if you like)

 

[Grendel]

I think that extends to Jewish Labour members who happened to support Corbyn as well. That's fine though as they are not real Jews.



So much for the broad church (or synagogue if you like)

the church Mr Starmer was happy to follow of course when he was Mr Corbyns ally and said nothing

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

the church Mr Starmer was happy to follow of course when he was Mr Corbyns ally and said nothing

One said ‘British Jews will no longer have to vote out of fear’. Sky News once ran a piece saying ‘Labour denies they are like the Nazis’ with an MP saying she had again started packing her bags by the door.

Corbyn was very thinly veiled being compared to an actual Nazi. What did people think was going to happen if he got elected? Would he start trying to pass Nazi style anti Semitic legislation?

 

[Astute]

One said ‘British Jews will no longer have to vote out of fear’. Sky News once ran a piece saying ‘Labour denies they are like the Nazis’ with an MP saying she had again started packing her bags by the door.

Corbyn was very thinly veiled being compared to an actual Nazi. What did people think was going to happen if he got elected? Would he start trying to pass Nazi style anti Semitic legislation?

You still don't seem to get it.

As I said at the time it was all to do with too many skeletons in the closet. And before you try shouting me down yet again for saying so please consider the facts. Is he anti Jewish? Don't think so. Is he or has he ever been a terrorist? Most probably not. But it always took away from voting for Labour. He was never going to win an election although many on here knew he would win.

As you most probably remember I was all for Starmer. But those who thought Corbyn was the one thought Starmer is too boring. Boring is good these days. I look forward to a Labour win next election. But we need Rayner to keep her mouth shut.

Let's put it another way. If the antisemitism and the IRA stuff was to do with a Tory leader would you just ignore it?

 

[Ian1779]

As you most probably remember I was all for Starmer.

Of course you were - fence sitters find a way to each other.

Starmer will be the next PM, but you watch him waste a real opportunity for change.

A competent David Brent.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You still don't seem to get it.

As I said at the time it was all to do with too many skeletons in the closet. And before you try shouting me down yet again for saying so please consider the facts. Is he anti Jewish? Don't think so. Is he or has he ever been a terrorist? Most probably not. But it always took away from voting for Labour. He was never going to win an election although many on here knew he would win.

As you most probably remember I was all for Starmer. But those who thought Corbyn was the one thought Starmer is too boring. Boring is good these days. I look forward to a Labour win next election. But we need Rayner to keep her mouth shut.

Let's put it another way. If the antisemitism and the IRA stuff was to do with a Tory leader would you just ignore it?

Politely, debating with you is a bit of a waste of time. I can't tell if you misinterpret most that is said on purpose or if it's genuine

 

[Astute]

Politely, debating with you is a bit of a waste of time. I can't tell if you misinterpret most that is said on purpose or if it's genuine

Of course.

Shall we quote posts made previously?

There are 3 parties. Labour. Tories. Then those of us that are realistic.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Of course.

Shall we quote posts made previously?

There are 3 parties. Labour. Tories. Then those of us that are realistic.

Monster Raving Looney?

 

[Astute]

Of course you were - fence sitters find a way to each other.

Starmer will be the next PM, but you watch him waste a real opportunity for change.

A competent David Brent.

Show me where I have ever been a fence sitter.

I am older than you. Yet please show me in a quoted post where I have been wrong in this stupid politics thread.

All my life I have been a Labour voter. Also a Unite member. But as you get older you learn from experience.

You have called me out countless times. Please show me where I have been wrong instead of just having a go because I can see what is going wrong instead of just having a go for being truthful.

 

[shmmeee]

Of course you were - fence sitters find a way to each other.

Starmer will be the next PM, but you watch him waste a real opportunity for change.

A competent David Brent.

And what did Corbyn do? Most polarised elections ever against two unpopular PMs and fucked it spectacularly. There’s no change without first winning power.

The left needs to get serious about getting elected if it actually wants change. But it doesn’t, it’s far happier on the sidelines. There was a real opportunity for the left to find a competent leader who was young, no baggage, not a complete loon. And they blew it all on magic grandpa and are continuing to blow it because loyalty to the old school left means more than getting a socialist government elected.

What those on the left of the party always forget is that it’s not the right or the left than run Labour, it’s the soft left. And the soft left will take some influence over none but generally believe in the same things as the left. If the left could offer a route to government they’d get their backing. But repeatedly they’ve shown they can’t.

There was a real start of something 2015-17 that could have led to a credible left, but it was always going to need Corbyn to ameliorate his views and apologise for his past actions or to give way to someone who would. The people chosen to push as leadership contenders post Corbyn were generally awful and chosen for loyalty not quality. The left candidates parachuted in in 2017 were generally not very good politicians as they pulled from the activist base.

 

[dutchman]

Corbyn only lost because Farage sold out to the Tories. But for that the Tories would have been slaughtered and Labour elected with a landslide.

 

[Sick Boy]

He did better than I expected against May to be fair to him.

 

[fernandopartridge]

And what did Corbyn do? Most polarised elections ever against two unpopular PMs and fucked it spectacularly. There’s no change without first winning power.

The left needs to get serious about getting elected if it actually wants change. But it doesn’t, it’s far happier on the sidelines. There was a real opportunity for the left to find a competent leader who was young, no baggage, not a complete loon. And they blew it all on magic grandpa and are continuing to blow it because loyalty to the old school left means more than getting a socialist government elected.

What those on the left of the party always forget is that it’s not the right or the left than run Labour, it’s the soft left. And the soft left will take some influence over none but generally believe in the same things as the left. If the left could offer a route to government they’d get their backing. But repeatedly they’ve shown they can’t.

There was a real start of something 2015-17 that could have led to a credible left, but it was always going to need Corbyn to ameliorate his views and apologise for his past actions or to give way to someone who would. The people chosen to push as leadership contenders post Corbyn were generally awful and chosen for loyalty not quality. The left candidates parachuted in in 2017 were generally not very good politicians as they pulled from the activist base.

Are you really suggesting that the current Labour shadow cabinet represent the 'soft left'. What is actually left wing about them?

 

[Grendel]

He did better than I expected against May to be fair to him.

well he showed passion and enthusiasm which gets some attention

the irony is if he didn’t succumb to drippy Starmer and his brexit get out and stuck to his anti EU stance most of the red wall would have remained

 

[shmmeee]

Corbyn only lost because Farage sold out to the Tories. But for that the Tories would have been slaughtered and Labour elected with a landslide.

Wut? Which election are you on about?

 

[shmmeee]

Are you really suggesting that the current Labour shadow cabinet represent the 'soft left'. What is actually left wing about them?

Everyone is right wing to you. Anyway I’m talking about members not MPs. The left lost the leadership election because it lost the confidence of soft left members that backed Corbyn previously.

 

[shmmeee]

well he showed passion and enthusiasm which gets some attention

the irony is if he didn’t succumb to drippy Starmer and his brexit get out and stuck to his anti EU stance most of the red wall would have remained

His polling dropped off a cliff because of his Russia stance, not because of Brexit policy.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Everyone is right wing to you. Anyway I’m talking about members not MPs. The left lost the leadership election because it lost the confidence of soft left members that backed Corbyn previously.

I know you're earning a few quid now but stop drifting to the right eh? I'm hardly a radical socialist just wanting public services to be properly funded and an actual welfare state.

 

[Grendel]

His polling dropped off a cliff because of his Russia stance, not because of Brexit policy.

So the red wall voters didn’t vote for labour had nothing to do with his brexit stance and they voted for Boris as he had the strap like Get Putin Done

it’s all making sense now

 

[dutchman]

Wut? Which election are you on about?

2019

Brexit party will not contest 317 Tory-won seats, Farage says

Party leader announces election climbdown in effort to avoid splitting leave vote

www.theguardian.com

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Everyone is right wing to you. Anyway I’m talking about members not MPs. The left lost the leadership election because it lost the confidence of soft left members that backed Corbyn previously.

There are two things in this world that send your objectivity down the toilet

Starmer
Jamie Allen

 

[shmmeee]

So the red wall voters didn’t vote for labour had nothing to do with his brexit stance and they voted for Boris as he had the strap like Get Putin Done

it’s all making sense now

Im telling you what the polling shows us. Johnson wasn’t particularly popular but Corbyn was an anathema to a lot of voters. Only 20% of switchers said Brexit was the reason:



But you live in an absolute fantasy land for this stuff and can’t see outside your bubble so I’m not surprised you’re taking the Corbynista line hook line and sinker.

 

[shmmeee]

There are two things in this world that send your objectivity down the toilet

Starmer
Jamie Allen

You mean two things I disagree with you on. Starmer is objectively likely to be the next PM, Jamie Allen is objectively a poor player for a top half Championship team. Fight me.

 

[Skybluefaz]

2019

Brexit party will not contest 317 Tory-won seats, Farage says

Party leader announces election climbdown in effort to avoid splitting leave vote

www.theguardian.com

Absolute nonsense.

 

[Ian1779]

Looking forward to seeing that ‘soft left’ manifesto containing such gems as:

GPS tagging asylum seekers
Responsible stationery ordering

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

You mean two things I disagree with you on. Starmer is objectively likely to be the next PM, Jamie Allen is objectively a poor player for a top half Championship team. Fight me.

I mean you start getting emotionally invested in defending Starmer and slating Allen in response to moderate criticism of the former and moderate defence of the latter.

Quite why I as a teacher and union rep would want constant Tory governments is baffling. But you keep trotting out the line that we like being in opposition.

 

[Grendel]

Im telling you what the polling shows us. Johnson wasn’t particularly popular but Corbyn was an anathema to a lot of voters. Only 20% of switchers said Brexit was the reason:

View attachment 28433

But you live in an absolute fantasy land for this stuff and can’t see outside your bubble so I’m not surprised you’re taking the Corbynista line hook line and sinker.

Lets be honest now you pay higher rate tax and see the benefits of capitalism you’ll be voting Tory in 5 years

 

[clint van damme]

Everyone is right wing to you. Anyway I’m talking about members not MPs. The left lost the leadership election because it lost the confidence of soft left members that backed Corbyn previously.

You can't discuss the current shadow cabinet without mentioning Corbyn, it's like an affliction.