Do you want to discuss boring politics? (35 Viewers)

[clint van damme]

I agree with that but Boris levels of lying? He’d have to have been thoroughly dishonest in all aspects of his life before being a politician to reach those levels and there’s no evidence of that.

He’s a politician and they all have an uncomfortable relationship with being dishonest. Corbyn pretended he was a remainer when suited and pretended he was dealing with antisemitism for instance but he was no where near Boris levels of lying and neither is Starmer. He could well prove to be in time but at this moment in time he’s not even in the ballpark compared to Boris.

He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.

 

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[PVA]

He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.

As you say that is policitics, particularly for party leaders.

But Johnson will break the law and stand up in Parliament and lie about it. That's a whole other level from any of Starmer's untruths.

 

[skybluetony176]

He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.

He’s not lying at the dispatch box though. Changing policy and breaking promises sure, he’s done that. But Boris stood up at PMQ’s week after week telling bare faced lies on everything from his personal behaviour to building new hospitals to the vaccine rollout. Fair enough Starmer isn’t yet in that position but I can’t ever see him reaching Boris levels. No doubt he will on occasions should he be PM but Boris made it a full time occupation, that was literally all he did.

 

[shmmeee]

He's thoroughly dishonest, I'm talking Johnson levels of dishonesty.
And he'll prove to be just as corrupt.
Bookmark mark this for 3 or 4 years into his first term and I'll happily admit to talking bollocks if I'm wrong.

Wow

 

[shmmeee]

Google it, there's loads.

Source: trust me bro

 

[clint van damme]

As you say that is policitics, particularly for party leaders.

But Johnson will break the law and stand up in Parliament and lie about it. That's a whole other level from any of Starmer's untruths.

He's not had the opportunity yet, let's see what happens.
For the record, I hope I'm wrong, this country is badly broken and needs fixing after over a decade of austerity and wealth transfer, I just dont think Starmer is the man to do it.

Its so badly broken I don't think a shift to the centre will affect enough change either.

 

[Grendel]

I’m not really a fan of Starmer but he’s no way comparable to De Pfeffel.

He’s more comparable to Cameron in that he wants the top job but has zero vision or a belief. He’s someone who gets a script and reads it

Once he gets the job he won’t like the scrutiny and has paper thin skin

Like Johnson he will say whatever he needs to say to get to power

 

[clint van damme]

Source: trust me bro

You dont think Johnson is dishonest?
You've surprised me.

 

[Ian1779]

For me a big point is not to give the gutter press ammunition.

For too many years we have been giving an endless supply of opportunities to attack. These days it is all about pulling the Tories apart. Just keep it as it is and come out with a decent way of taking the UK forward. We need a manifesto which puts more money in the pockets of those who need it. Get rid of the so called management and replace them with doctors, nurses, teachers and so on. Pay for our own power generating facilities instead of letting foreign investment rip us off. This would then give more money to correct what is wrong. Have a major home building program instead of paying billions each year to private landlords. Stop the right to buy. Take control of the rail companies as each contract comes to an end. There is a very long list of what the British public would vote for.

I reckon I could vote for someone running on this platform. Know anyone?

 

[Grendel]

Do you even know what insult you’re trying to make here?

Few too many sherries tonight I fear G.

not at all I just find your stance somewhat amusing

 

[skybluetony176]

There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.

 

[Grendel]

I reckon I could vote for someone running on this platform. Know anyone?

it sounds like he wants Corbyn to make a comeback

 

[Ian1779]

There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.

They could try that - but it would be a much easier attack line to say ‘You lied your way to the Labour leadership, who’s to say you wouldn’t do it again if PM’

 

[clint van damme]

There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.

Trust me, and I realise you're probably not referring to me, but my opinions on Starmer aren't cultivated by the right wing press!

 

[skybluetony176]

They could try that - but it would be a much easier attack line to say ‘You lied your way to the Labour leadership, who’s to say you wouldn’t do it again if PM’

There is something to that, I’ll certainly acknowledge that. I still can’t see him ever lying on the scale of Boris though or anywhere near. Boris does it in every aspect of his life, everyone “exaggerates” at a job interview.

 

[shmmeee]

You dont think Johnson is dishonest?
You've surprised me.

I do, I think comparing him to Starmer is freaking barmy. Not even playing the same sport let alone in the same league.

 

[fernandopartridge]

There’s a very real danger of false equivalency driven by the right wing press. Look at beergate. The effort that went into making out Starmer having a beer at a meeting in a stage whatever it was in the end lockdown was the same as Boris having numerous parties in full lockdown. I still hear people based on that say Starmer broke the law the same as Boris. Aside from the fact that Starmer didn’t break the law and Boris did on numerous occasions.

The problem is that you spend your time majoring on Tory lies and broken promises you need to not have too many skeletons in your own closet.
Having said that, the media will choose whether or not they care about those skeletons based on the extent to which they believe Starmer is a threat to the neoliberal status quo. They don't believe he is a threat so they ignore the skeletons.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

He reminds me so much of Johnson even though they have totally different personalities.
He will do or say whatever it takes to keep the media on side and to be seen in a favourable light.
Now I know that's politics to an extent, but for me, the dishonesty goes much deeper with these pair.

Mate you are normally a sensible poster but this is a bit unhinged.

 

[clint van damme]

Mate you are normally a sensible poster but this is a bit unhinged.

You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.

 

[Sick Boy]

He’s more comparable to Cameron in that he wants the top job but has zero vision or a belief. He’s someone who gets a script and reads it

Once he gets the job he won’t like the scrutiny and has paper thin skin

Like Johnson he will say whatever he needs to say to get to power

Probably a fair comment but that's been the case for successive PMs/leaders of the opposition for quite a while now - apart from Corbyn but even then he adjusted his views to cling on to power.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.

Seriously, Johnson levels of dishonesty?

 

[TomRad85]

You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.

I only look at this thread occasionally but you've ruffled some feathers this morning. Love to see it.
Also getting all defensive over a politician is weird, the Starmer lads are starting to sound a bit like the Corbyn cultists, ironically.

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[clint van damme]

Seriously, Johnson levels of dishonesty?

Same traits. And the higher he goes the worse it will get.
I'll happily come on here and admit I'm wrong if it doesn't.

 

[shmmeee]

You might not agree but it's hardly unhinged.
You do realise that some of the things I'm calling him out for he admits to reneging on so he agrees with me.

Only he doesn't describe it as lying, I think change of circumstances is one of his favourite excuses.

You think changing a policy platform openly is comparable to what Johnson has done? Really?

 

[clint van damme]

I only look at this thread occasionally but you've ruffled some feathers this morning. Love to see it.
Also getting all defensive over a politician is weird, the Starmer lads are starting to sound a bit like the Corbyn cultists, ironically.

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The 'first to mention corbyn when debating starmer' stakes were won by outsider TomRad 85 after a disappointing showing from odds on favourite Shmmeee

 

[clint van damme]

You think changing a policy platform openly is comparable to what Johnson has done? Really?

Why would you change on, for example, renationalising the railways?
Have they got better or have they got considerably worse?
The dishonesty was saying he was going to do it in the first place.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

I only look at this thread occasionally but you've ruffled some feathers this morning. Love to see it.
Also getting all defensive over a politician is weird, the Starmer lads are starting to sound a bit like the Corbyn cultists, ironically.

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I am no fan of Starmer. I am just challenging the view that he is as dishonest as Johnson and have seen no evidence at all yet.

 

[TomRad85]

The 'first to mention corbyn when debating starmer' stakes were won by outsider TomRad 85 after a disappointing showing from odds on favourite Shmmeee

I'm not debating Starmer, I couldn't give a monkeys, he'll probably win and you're right he also reminds me of Cameron. Suits me.

Edit. I think Grendel compared him to Cameron rather than you. Still accurate though.

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[TomRad85]

I am no fan of Starmer. I am just challenging the view that he is as dishonest as Johnson and have seen no evidence at all yet.

I think Clint is suggesting the higher they get the more dishonest they get. Judge him when he's in the big boy job I suppose.

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[Deleted member 9744]

I think Clint is suggesting the higher they get the more dishonest they get. Judge him when he's in the big boy job I suppose.

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This, 'they're all as bad as each other' narrative is dangerous. It's simply not true. May and Cameron were terrible but nothing compared to what has followed them.

 

[clint van damme]

I'm not debating Starmer, I couldn't give a monkeys, he'll probably win and you're right he also reminds me of Cameron. Suits me.

Edit. I think Grendel compared him to Cameron rather than you. Still accurate though.

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Stewards enquiry!

 

[PVA]

I think Clint is suggesting the higher they get the more dishonest they get.

Yeah and that's a fair comment.

Doesn't mean they all lie like Johnson does when they get to the top though. He's a whole other level.

 

[TomRad85]

This, 'they're all as bad as each other' narrative is dangerous. It's simply not true. May and Cameron were terrible but nothing compared to what has followed them.

I didn't mind Cameron too much but if a Labour leader ultimately ended up being just like Cameron, well that's pretty dishonest from a left wing view point.

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[Grendel]

Yeah and that's a fair comment.

Doesn't mean they all lie like Johnson does when they get to the top though. He's a whole other level.

He’s not - he’s saying his history of lies is similar to that of Johnson to achieve power

He’s not even referring i don’t think to his interesting behaviour when in charge of the CPS

 

[TomRad85]

Make no mistake though, Starmer is in the right place at the right time, he'll win because the tories have completely and utterly shit the bed. No one is inspired by him, he's just there. Even Corbyn (siren) would have stood half a chance next time around.

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