Do you want to discuss boring politics? (184 Viewers)

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

It’s true that you think we have too much immigration and listed why people would want it to go down. You are also an immigrant in another country that actually isn’t dead keen on immigration itself.

It’s also true that you held up Oxford as an academic gold standard, but you rejected their work when they came up with the vaccine and data confirming it was safe.

You have this habit of going so far down a rabbit hole then refusing to backtrack. People are objecting to removing rights from an already vulnerable group-they aren’t saying they’d be fine with net immigration of a million or that they want as much as possible.

Believe it or not, you can be an immigrant and also hold an opinion on immigration. There are many immigrants in The Netherlands who are criminals and play the system. I guess I can't speak out against those? I guess the immigrants that come to the UK aren't allowed to challenge the ones that have no intention of contributing to society, when they themselves have worked hard to be an upstanding member of society? You are totally lost on this.

I have also (as you very well know), not rejected the Oxford vaccine. I've said time and time again that it has saved millions of lives across the most at risk demographic (with that being the optimum talking point). I have just pointed out repeatedly that mandating it was morally wrong, and remember, you were the coward that wanted to bring in such mandates in order to segregate society. Aren't you a teacher of Science? And you are trying to take a moral high ground on this thread about refugees too? It's embarrassing.

I've been consistent with what I have been saying, and I'm offering a very open admission that my opinion is alternative on this forum. With that, I am telling you that people would be a lot more compassionate with genuine refugees if it wasn't for the several reasons I have listed previously on this thread. Take it or leave it, but as I said, refusal to acknowledge these points is exactly why the majority of the population don't vote in the direction that you want them to.

 

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[TomRad85]

Have I really just heard the following at PMQs?!

“Graphic lessons on oral sex, ‘how to choke your partner safely’, and 72 genders. This is what passes as relationships and sec education in British schools.”

What the actual fuckery?

And that's just in BSBs class.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Believe it or not, you can be an immigrant and also hold an opinion on immigration. There are many immigrants in The Netherlands who are criminals and play the system. I guess I can't speak out against those? I guess the immigrants that come to the UK aren't allowed to challenge the ones that have no intention of contributing to society, when they themselves have worked hard to be an upstanding member of society? You are totally lost on this.

I have also (as you very well know), not rejected the Oxford vaccine. I've said time and time again that it has saved millions of lives across the most at risk demographic (with that being the optimum talking point). I have just pointed out repeatedly that mandating it was morally wrong, and remember, you were the coward that wanted to bring in such mandates in order to segregate society. Aren't you a teacher of Science? And you are trying to take a moral high ground on this thread about refugees too? It's embarrassing.

I've been consistent with what I have been saying, and I'm offering a very open admission that my opinion is alternative on this forum. With that, I am telling you that people would be a lot more compassionate with genuine refugees if it wasn't for the several reasons I have listed previously on this thread. Take it or leave it, but as I said, refusal to acknowledge these points is exactly why the majority of the population don't vote in the direction that you want them to.

Nobody said you can’t have the opinion. What was said though is that giving the reasons why people oppose immigration is at odds with being one yourself. The people who ‘want less immigration’ may simply want fewer foreigners in the country full stop-regardless of their status.

On COVID-you expressed what were effectively anti vaxx views and compared Austria’s COVID laws to the rise of Nazism. It wasn’t your best moment.

In the final point, we are talking about the most vulnerable asylum seekers being treated as criminals. That’s really what this boils down to and it’s different to immigration more generally. I think it’s a dark day for the UK if this ever becomes law. Would like to know what you think.

You asked when was the last time I was on a winning side in an election. It was the 2014 Scottish referendum. Not that staying in the union has done Scotland much good since but there we are.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

And that's just in BSBs class.

Sent from my SM-G973F using Tapatalk

I have a Periodic Table of Genders on the wall. 118 genders, with about 60 more to be discovered.

 

[shmmeee]

Probably because they don't actually genuinely care, which is another thing I have also been saying...



More people want to decrease it than increase it. True or false?


We have a cost of living crisis, and we just had a pandemic. We also had brexit. As I said, other things have got in the way making it less of a priority. It doesn't suddenly mean the entire country is an open border advocator.

True, but more people don’t want it to decrease than do

Barely anyone is an open border advocate, so it’s silly arguing with straw men.

British attitudes to immigration and a bit all over the place like voter attitudes to most things. Have a read of this: https://www.ipsos.com/sites/default...migration-british-future-ipsos-march-2022.pdf

We by large majorities want people to be able to claim asylum, but then are split on whether to allow people to claim asylum here.

We by large majorities want people to come here for economic reasons. Yet are split on whether we should increase or decrease immigration.

What’s clear is that overall attitudes has softened since 2016. We don’t like freeloaders, fakers, or chancers coming over on dinghies, but are completely unable to explain who exactly it is we want to keep out and how. Which really means the only thing this topic is good for politically is riling people up about something you can’t solve. A strategy which has hardly covered the Tories in glory.

 

[Deleted member 9744]

Who said that?

Some Tory MP. I heard it too. More culture wars nonsense.

 

[shmmeee]

Have I really just heard the following at PMQs?!

“Graphic lessons on oral sex, ‘how to choke your partner safely’, and 72 genders. This is what passes as relationships and sec education in British schools.”

What the actual fuckery?

I knew that Ofsted report would catch up with me eventually.

 

[Grendel]

Some Tory MP. I heard it too. More culture wars nonsense.

I assume it related to the furore with the school on the Isle of Man

 

[Grendel]

Have I really just heard the following at PMQs?!

“Graphic lessons on oral sex, ‘how to choke your partner safely’, and 72 genders. This is what passes as relationships and sec education in British schools.”

What the actual fuckery?

This relates to an incident on the Isle of Man which it seems has now suspended all sex education at schools pending an enquiry

A drag queen was invited to a school and said there are 73 genders. Also lessons to the Primary School children on oral and anal sex

One child was suspended as they said there were two genders - as the drag queen was offended

Thats really the disturbing aspect of this along with the child receiving death threats for scuffing a copy of the Koran and the mother being advised by the police to grovel to the Mosque for forgiveness.

 

[Ian1779]

Have I really just heard the following at PMQs?!

“Graphic lessons on oral sex, ‘how to choke your partner safely’, and 72 genders. This is what passes as relationships and sec education in British schools.”

What the actual fuckery?

If you think that gets taught in school then I’ve got some magic beans to sell you at an absolute steal.

 

[Grendel]

If you think that gets taught in school then I’ve got some magic beans to sell you at an absolute steal.

There is an investigation about it and all lessons suspended pending the Investigation?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This relates to an incident on the Isle of Man which it seems has now suspended all sex education at schools pending an enquiry

A drag queen was invited to a school and said there are 73 genders. Also lessons to the Primary School children on oral and anal sex

One child was suspended as they said there were two genders - as the drag queen was offended

Thats really the disturbing aspect of this along with the child receiving death threats for scuffing a copy of the Koran and the mother being advised by the police to grovel to the Mosque for forgiveness.

In isolation these stories are concerning but hardly representative.

 

[Ian1779]

There is an investigation about it and all lessons suspended pending the Investigation?

It’s an isolated incident - which in all likelihood will mean they would fail OFSTED if they are a state school.

It’s not indicative of mainstream education policy on RSE.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

This year also marks 20 since the repeal of Thatcher’s homophobic legislation known as Section 28, which banned even the discussion of gay parents being an acceptable family model. There is a debate to be had around what is OK to discuss at what age but I don’t think we seriously want to go back to laws like those.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

If a civil servant wrote something like that about a minister they’d be gone instantly. Still she gets to stay.

Yep especially publicly

 

[Grendel]

In isolation these stories are concerning but hardly representative.

It does not matter if they are representative does it really

You have an example of a child with a religious COE faith removed for expressing concern and in another school a child being threatened with his life and blamed for scuffing the Koran (Which it seems he did not do) and the Police advising his parents to understand religious tolerance.

 

[Grendel]

This year also marks 20 since the repeal of Thatcher’s homophobic legislation known as Section 28, which banned even the discussion of gay parents being an acceptable family model. There is a debate to be had around what is OK to discuss at what age but I don’t think we seriously want to go back to laws like those.

Not the discussion is it?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

It does not matter if they are representative does it really

You have an example of a child with a religious COE faith removed for expressing concern and in another school a child being threatened with his life and blamed for scuffing the Koran (Which it seems he did not do) and the Police advising his parents to understand religious tolerance.

Well it does. They don’t reflect what generally happens in schools. And if those lessons are being suspended then it shows people higher up aren’t ignoring it.

 

[Grendel]

Well it does. They don’t reflect what generally happens in schools. And if those lessons are being suspended then it shows people higher up aren’t ignoring it.

No sorry that does not wash. Do you support the rights of people to protest and challenge homosexual teaching in schools on the grounds of religion?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not the discussion is it?

It sort of is. There is a balance between exposing primary children to the idea of 75 genders and forbidding tolerance of different sexualities.

 

[David O'Day]

Well it does. They don’t reflect what generally happens in schools. And if those lessons are being suspended then it shows people higher up aren’t ignoring it.

he's fucked his own argument yet again

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

No sorry that does not wash. Do you support the rights of people to protest and challenge homosexual teaching in schools on the grounds of religion?

Everybody should have the freedom to protest.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

he's fucked his own argument yet again

‘Look what’s happening in this school on the IoM’

‘That’s one isolated example and isn’t representative’

‘So what’

 

[David O'Day]

Everybody should have the freedom to protest.

he's doing his 5th rate contrarian act again

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

he's doing his 5th rate contrarian act again

He’s been doing it in support of ESB most of the day. Easy formula to follow but it’s the only card he plays on here

 

[Grendel]

‘Look what’s happening in this school on the IoM’

‘That’s one isolated example and isn’t representative’

‘So what’

Do you think the child who objected should have been removed?

I wouldn't hold your breath on the investigation either

What's your view on the Koran incident out of interest

 

[Grendel]

he's doing his 5th rate contrarian act again

What on earth are you on about David

 

[David O'Day]

He’s been doing it in support of ESB most of the day. Easy formula to follow but it’s the only card he plays on here

he needs to get a job

 

[Grendel]

He’s been doing it in support of ESB most of the day. Easy formula to follow but it’s the only card he plays on here

I haven't supported him I just thought you were talking total bollocks

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Do you think the child who objected should have been removed?

I wouldn't hold your breath on the investigation either

What's your view on the Koran incident out of interest

I wouldn’t agree with the child’s suspension, no. I also think that primary school is too soon to be introducing concepts like that to someone who hasn’t even gone through puberty.

I don’t know the details of the other incident but happy to say what I think if you link it

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I haven't supported him I just thought you were talking total bollocks

He turned a debate on asylum seekers being judged as criminals into one on immigration generally. He himself is an immigrant. Then you both went on a weird journey around immigrants from well off countries being obviously different to refugees.

It didn’t look good for either of you really

 

[Grendel]

Try again

Police statement as Yorkshire schoolboy who 'dropped Quran' sent death threats

The incident took place in Wakefield at Kettlethorpe High School

www.examinerlive.co.uk

 

[Grendel]

He turned a debate on asylum seekers being judged as criminals into one on immigration generally. He himself is an immigrant. Then you both went on a weird journey around immigrants from well off countries being obviously different to refugees.

It didn’t look good for either of you really

Why does it not look good?

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Nobody said you can’t have the opinion. What was said though is that giving the reasons why people oppose immigration is at odds with being one yourself. The people who ‘want less immigration’ may simply want fewer foreigners in the country full stop-regardless of their status.

On COVID-you expressed what were effectively anti vaxx views and compared Austria’s COVID laws to the rise of Nazism. It wasn’t your best moment.

In the final point, we are talking about the most vulnerable asylum seekers being treated as criminals. That’s really what this boils down to and it’s different to immigration more generally. I think it’s a dark day for the UK if this ever becomes law. Would like to know what you think.

You asked when was the last time I was on a winning side in an election. It was the 2014 Scottish referendum. Not that staying in the union has done Scotland much good since but there we are.

It's ironic you were talking about rabbit holes, because you have served up a great element of projection here. Literally the first thing you said on this thread about my immigration points were that my opinions were staggering 'given that I was an immigrant myself'. You then came out with some strange sideways comment about 'immigrants from the wrong countries', which is I presume where you were wanting to go, but again, had no evidence so just went back to making stupid comments.

Look at this article, which is from yesterday. I'm guessing, based on what you have said today, that anyone against this type of person just simply wants less foreigners? I presume I am also not allowed to not want this person in the UK either, because I'm an immigrant myself? Other immigrants in the UK should also have to tolerate this person right, because it is odds with them being an immigrant themselves too?

Convicted rapist among those trying to cross by small boat


About the stature of your post is to get upset about me making comments regarding the Austrian Covid laws, which were words about some very frightening set of ideas. All this when you actively wanted to bring in mandates and segregation. It makes what I said look like a parking ticket in comparison. I still stand by it too, and given how much everyone has gone quiet on it now, and play the pretend amnesty card, it obviously just goes to show how ridiculous (and dangerous) that idea was. The idea that you actively supported. Getting upset at what I said (clearly another example of projection and deflection) when you came out with that is just about the closest working example to show yourself up, as one could possibly invent if they tried. What happens if someone coming on one of the boats hadn't been vaccinated by the way; throw them over the side? You really are a comedy of errors.

Well done for winning the Scottish referendum though.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Why does it not look good?

It implies that an immigrant from a ‘good’ country should have better rights and a better chance of being granted the right to live here than someone fleeing a ‘bad’ one. The whole thing is a deflection from the actual policy being debated anyway