Do you want to discuss boring politics? (139 Viewers)

duffer · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
Although as usual you've misquoted me and missed the crucial word 'I'. I don't pretend....

The pile ons here are embarrassing at times. The names I get called on here and you're as guilty as any yet I never start the name-calling I simply admit to being a tory. If all you want is like opinions then it's an echo chamber you want not a forum.

Hold up mate. It seemed to me that the crux of your argument was that everyone was at it anyway, so why should Boris et al be punished just for being Tories?

However that argument is based purely on your opinion and behaviour; it seems that largely (but not universally), people tried to follow the rules, sometimes at unimaginable emotional cost.

That's why people get upset by those who try to defend those who so blatantly broke the very rules they insisted (at great frequency) the rest of us had to follow.

Whether you personally are a Tory or not isn't actually relevant to this, I'd challenge anyone who suggested that what went on at Number 10 under Boris's watch was in any way acceptable.

I don't think you're a c**t mate, there's plenty of stuff you've posted that suggests that you're a perfectly likeable chap and fellow supporter.

However, I obviously don't agree with your politics in general, and on this matter in particular I think that you are completely wrong.

David O'Day · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
Why didn't Rees Mogg vote?

fanny

duffer · Jun 20, 2023

clint van damme said:
Why didn't Rees Mogg vote?

If he didn't it was because Boris told him not to.

Boris was hoping that by nobody opposing the motion it would go through "on the nod", i.e. without a formal recorded vote, and on that basis no one could know how little support he actually has amongst Tory MPs.

Like Boris, at heart Mogg is a coward. Long words, cached insults, bit of Latin, no bollocks.

rob9872 · Jun 20, 2023

duffer said:
Hold up mate. It seemed to me that the crux of your argument was that everyone was at it anyway, so why should Boris et al be punished just for being Tories?

However that argument is based purely on your opinion and behaviour; it seems that largely (but not universally), people tried to follow the rules, sometimes at unimaginable emotional cost.

That's why people get upset by those who try to defend those who so blatantly broke the very rules they insisted (at great frequency) the rest of us had to follow.

Whether you personally are a Tory or not isn't actually relevant to this, I'd challenge anyone who suggested that what went on at Number 10 under Boris's watch was in any way acceptable.

I don't think you're a c**t mate, there's plenty of stuff you've posted that suggests that you're a perfectly likeable chap and fellow supporter.

However, I obviously don't agree with your politics in general, and on this matter in particular I think that you are completely wrong.

To some degree I agree. But what I meant with breaking rules was its all a matter of levels ( I may have even posted that I can't remember). Personally I didnt go partying but I travelled to work when I could've been at home because it was more convenient. I did mum and dad's shopping and entered through the back gate and sat in their garden long before it was allowed and used my key worker documentation to travel when I could've avoided it. Many followed the rules completely, many like me broke them to some degree, so I'd be hypocritical to say string them up because they went further than me.

shmmeee · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
To some degree I agree. But what I meant with breaking rules was its all a matter of levels ( I may have even posted that I can't remember). Personally I didnt go partying but I travelled to work when I could've been at home because it was more convenient. I did mum and dad's shopping and entered through the back gate and sat in their garden long before it was allowed and used my key worker documentation to travel when I could've avoided it. Many followed the rules completely, many like me broke them to some degree, so I'd be hypocritical to say string them up because they went further than me.

Do you not think those setting the rules have a greater responsibility to stick to them to the letter?

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 20, 2023

shmmeee said:
Do you not think those setting the rules have a greater responsibility to stick to them to the letter?

Of we want perfection then we will always be disappointed in our leaders. We should expect nothing more or less than we do of ourselves

That said there are civil service values of integrity and professionalism that I think are good to abide by

rob9872 · Jun 20, 2023

shmmeee said:
Do you not think those setting the rules have a greater responsibility to stick to them to the letter?

The government yes, those who work in the back offices which applies to most of these, not so much. They're basic office staff expected to work under difficult conditions and I'll bet not paid that much. I imagine there are similar at Labour HQ and I genuinely do hope that they had gatherings too and also that if anyone recorded them they get them out now or not at all rather than a cheap tool to bring down the next government when the time is damaging. I'd prefer parliament to concentrate on fixing the broken things and governing in general, spend time on the economy not wasting valuable hours going over old ground of things that we all knew went on and were discussed to death at the time. It's like death by a 1000 cuts and just how many times can people be outraged at the same thing? Anyone shocked to see the videos and believing it didn't happen must've been living in a cave.

SBT · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
The government yes, those who work in the back offices which applies to most of these, not so much. They're basic office staff expected to work under difficult conditions and I'll bet not paid that much. I imagine there are similar at Labour HQ and I genuinely do hope that they had gatherings too and also that if anyone recorded them they get them out now or not at all rather than a cheap tool to bring down the next government when the time is damaging. I'd prefer parliament to concentrate on fixing the broken things and governing in general, spend time on the economy not wasting valuable hours going over old ground of things that we all knew went on and were discussed to death at the time. It's like death by a 1000 cuts and just how many times can people be outraged at the same thing? Anyone shocked to see the videos and believing it didn't happen must've been living in a cave.

If you don’t want to be distracted from your job by evidence of you breaking the law then there is one simple trick that can help with that.

shmmeee · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
The government yes, those who work in the back offices which applies to most of these, not so much. They're basic office staff expected to work under difficult conditions and I'll bet not paid that much. I imagine there are similar at Labour HQ and I genuinely do hope that they had gatherings too and also that if anyone recorded them they get them out now or not at all rather than a cheap tool to bring down the next government when the time is damaging. I'd prefer parliament to concentrate on fixing the broken things and governing in general, spend time on the economy not wasting valuable hours going over old ground of things that we all knew went on and were discussed to death at the time. It's like death by a 1000 cuts and just how many times can people be outraged at the same thing? Anyone shocked to see the videos and believing it didn't happen must've been living in a cave.

Im not sure they are “office staff” they’re quite senior political aides. And in the office of the Prime Minister. It’s not Bloggs Paper Supplies.

And no one I knew had any kind of office party.

duffer · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
To some degree I agree. But what I meant with breaking rules was its all a matter of levels ( I may have even posted that I can't remember). Personally I didnt go partying but I travelled to work when I could've been at home because it was more convenient. I did mum and dad's shopping and entered through the back gate and sat in their garden long before it was allowed and used my key worker documentation to travel when I could've avoided it. Many followed the rules completely, many like me broke them to some degree, so I'd be hypocritical to say string them up because they went further than me.

Fair enough, I respect the honesty. As said, I can differ from your opinion without having to hate you personally!

So have a good one, I'm abandoning this to do some work (and possibly listen to the cricket, if it's on yet).

rob9872 · Jun 20, 2023

1.10 after lunch the latest but according to cricinfo if the light permits they can still bowl the full 98 overs. Not sure how that works after losing a session but presume if we get a few hours in then half that will be enough one way or the other.

Terry_dactyl · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
The government yes, those who work in the back offices which applies to most of these, not so much. They're basic office staff expected to work under difficult conditions and I'll bet not paid that much. I imagine there are similar at Labour HQ and I genuinely do hope that they had gatherings too and also that if anyone recorded them they get them out now or not at all rather than a cheap tool to bring down the next government when the time is damaging. I'd prefer parliament to concentrate on fixing the broken things and governing in general, spend time on the economy not wasting valuable hours going over old ground of things that we all knew went on and were discussed to death at the time. It's like death by a 1000 cuts and just how many times can people be outraged at the same thing? Anyone shocked to see the videos and believing it didn't happen must've been living in a cave.

I’m not in the least bit shocked…but it’s still anger inducing.
They should be held to account.

A government should have the capacity to do more than 2 things at once ie discuss this is issue and try to sort out the ‘broken things’.

duffer · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
1.10 after lunch the latest but according to cricinfo if the light permits they can still bowl the full 98 overs. Not sure how that works after losing a session but presume if we get a few hours in then half that will be enough one way or the other.

It's still light until 10:00pm, the lazy blighters.

Saying that I'm still not sure who might be praying for rain at the end of the day, us or them!

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 20, 2023

We wouldn't still be talking about it if Johnson would have just manned up, put his hands up, and accepted he's been duplicitous about such things.

And if some of his supporters hadn't made such a ridiculous noise about it being a stitch up. I mean FFS even Andrea Leadsom voted for the committee's findings!

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 20, 2023

Oh, and the rather patronising accusations of mock outrage and we all broke the rules are bad enough, but this is the second time this argument has been put forward here, and the second time they've doubled down on it when called out on it, which is pretty shoddy really.

So that's twice I get to reflect that that first Christmas no, I didn't break the rules, and because of that I missed the last Christmas my Mum was... herself, shall we say. We didn't see them over Christmas as allowed because we'd been working and were therefore a risk to them. Of course the rules then changed so you couldn't mingle, we'd had a fortnight by ourselves so were 'clear' and ummed and ahhed about going to see them, but decided not to as how could we complain about others breaking the rules if we did too?

I don't expect a medal, I didn't care that my next door neighbour had a sneaky pint with his work colleague, but I do expect a bit less condescending snarky commentary, and a victim tendency when called out on it.

Anyway, all a very traumatic time for me, thinking about it upsets me, so I'm out. If anybody wants to continue the faux protestations then yep, that makes them a c**t. And I don't care if they're a Tory, Lib Dem, Labour or SNP c**t, that's still the behaviour of a c**t.

Sick Boy · Jun 20, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
We wouldn't still be talking about it if Johnson would have just manned up, put his hands up, and accepted he's been duplicitous about such things.

And if some of his supporters hadn't made such a ridiculous noise about it being a stitch up. I mean FFS even Andrea Leadsom voted for the committee's findings!

Are you really trying to claim that there isn't a conspiracy from some elite dark forces against the likes of De Pfeffel Johnson and Rees Mogg??

Deleted member 5849 · Jun 20, 2023

Sick Boy said:
Are you really trying to claim that there aren't isn't a conspiracy from some elite dark forces against the likes of De Pfeffel Johnson and Rees Mogg??

They're both wankers, and Sunak is a coward for not endorsing the workings of parliament.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 20, 2023

rob9872 said:
1.10 after lunch the latest but according to cricinfo if the light permits they can still bowl the full 98 overs. Not sure how that works after losing a session but presume if we get a few hours in then half that will be enough one way or the other.

Rain likely in showers later too. No way they get 98 overs in 6 hours maximum my guess would be 13 or 14 an hour so 78 and easily enough for a result unless there’s more rain which if we lost 20 odd could make it interesting

skybluetony176 · Jun 20, 2023

Terry_dactyl said:
I’m not in the least bit shocked…but it’s still anger inducing.
They should be held to account.

A government should have the capacity to do more than 2 things at once ie discuss this is issue and try to sort out the ‘broken things’.

Oh come on. It’s not like the government is made up of a large number of departments with a minister responsible for each individual department. Oh wait… that’s exactly how it is.

Terry_dactyl · Jun 20, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Oh come on. It’s not like the government is made up of a large number of departments with a minister responsible for each individual department. Oh wait… that’s exactly how it is.

Doing two things at once?! It’s this government we’re talking about…

skybluetony176 · Jun 20, 2023

Deleted member 5849 said:
We wouldn't still be talking about it if Johnson would have just manned up, put his hands up, and accepted he's been duplicitous about such things.

And if some of his supporters hadn't made such a ridiculous noise about it being a stitch up. I mean FFS even Andrea Leadsom voted for the committee's findings!

I think I read David Davies did too.

skybluetony176 · Jun 20, 2023

Dorries really is as thick as shit

HuckerbyDublinWhelan · Jun 20, 2023

'Shameful' Cov students condemned in Parliament for lockdown rave

The rule-breaking party at a hall used by Coventry University students has reached the House of Commons

www.coventrytelegraph.net

I’ll leave this here…. Wancock and the tories can call this shameful but I don’t see the same vigour from senior government officials. Condemning Boris

PVA · Jun 20, 2023

HuckerbyDublinWhelan said:
'Shameful' Cov students condemned in Parliament for lockdown rave

The rule-breaking party at a hall used by Coventry University students has reached the House of Commons

www.coventrytelegraph.net

I’ll leave this here…. Wancock and the tories can call this shameful but I don’t see the same vigour from senior government officials. Condemning Boris

But were they working hard?

That seems to be one of the key criteria for these things.

If you were working hard then you were perfectly entitled to break the rules and party away.

skybluetony176 · Jun 21, 2023

Awful PMQ’s from Starmer. No cut through whatsoever.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 21, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Awful PMQ’s from Starmer. No cut through whatsoever.

In what way?

skybluetony176 · Jun 21, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
In what way?

He tried to focus on Mortgages presumably his to launch his new catchphrase “Tory Mortgage Premium” at the expense of meaningful questions. It was all about setting up the catchphrase. Right to bring it up but should have A) left it with his first question given how many open goals he had today B) made the questions count. Sunak dealt with them with ease. The biggest problem was all of Sunak’s replies would have set him up beautifully for scrutiny if Starmer had have changed the subject for his other questions. Wasted opportunity.

fernandopartridge · Jun 21, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
In what way?

His line of questioning was about prospective increases to mortgages where he should be talking about the real drop in living standards and the government's support of that. No questioning at all and the continued drive to increase interest rates even despite the evidence that it is not driving inflation.

His problem is that his shadow chancellor follows an identical economic philosophy to Sunak.

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

fernandopartridge · Jun 21, 2023

But fiscal rules

Children raised under UK austerity shorter than European peers, study finds

Average height of boys and girls aged five has slipped due to poor diet and NHS cuts, experts say

www.theguardian.com

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skybluetony176 · Jun 21, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
But fiscal rules

Children raised under UK austerity shorter than European peers, study finds

Average height of boys and girls aged five has slipped due to poor diet and NHS cuts, experts say

www.theguardian.com

Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk

Just one of the things he could have pulled them up on. Debt as a percentage of GDP, highest in 60years at over 100% announced today. Inflation staling and not dropping putting Sunak behind on one of his key promises.

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 21, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Just one of the things he could have pulled them up on. Debt as a percentage of GDP, highest in 60years at over 100% announced today. Inflation staling and not dropping putting Sunak behind on one of his key promises.

Yep the argument is sunak claimed it’s a priority knowing he can do nothing about it apart from truss messing everything up. He thought it was an easy win
Truss actively worked against the Bank of England. I would have asked what measures he has put in place and is putting in place to bring inflation down
Cos it’s allow the Bank of England to destroy voters disposable income and risking the roof over their head
Great vote winner that

fernandopartridge · Jun 21, 2023

skybluetony176 said:
Just one of the things he could have pulled them up on. Debt as a percentage of GDP, highest in 60years at over 100% announced today. Inflation staling and not dropping putting Sunak behind on one of his key promises.

I wouldn't raise debt as a % of GDP as it is meaningless to people day to day, it's not an issue. Japan, for example, has a debt to GDP ratio of 266%. It has a better standard of living.

Grendel · Jun 21, 2023

Sky Blue Pete said:
Yep the argument is sunak claimed it’s a priority knowing he can do nothing about it apart from truss messing everything up. He thought it was an easy win
Truss actively worked against the Bank of England. I would have asked what measures he has put in place and is putting in place to bring inflation down
Cos it’s allow the Bank of England to destroy voters disposable income and risking the roof over their head
Great vote winner that

Starmers broad economic policies are no different to what Sunak is doing now are they?

Grendel · Jun 21, 2023

fernandopartridge said:
I wouldn't raise debt as a % of GDP as it is meaningless to people day to day, it's not an issue. Japan, for example, has a debt to GDP ratio of 266%. It has a better standard of living.

Yes thats a real own goal with an obvious reply

Sky Blue Pete · Jun 21, 2023

Grendel said:
Starmers broad economic policies are no different to what Sunak is doing now are they?

He’s not in power

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