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shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Feels like the sudden concern about anti-semitism and protection for religious freedom on the rightward fringes of European politics is somewhat undermined when a party that wants to straight up ban Islam wins an election.

I find it more chilling than interesting, personally.
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Its their Trump moment. Islamophobia has been an issue for a while.
 
skybluetony176

skybluetony176

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Feels like the sudden concern about anti-semitism and protection for religious freedom on the rightward fringes of European politics is somewhat undermined when a party that wants to straight up ban Islam wins an election.

I find it more chilling than interesting, personally.
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Ultimately they’ll end up regretting it. Far right parties do not make good government. We’ve seen this all around the world in the last decade from Brazil to the US to Italy. Even in this country, the further the government lurch to the right the worse they’ve became. Even Sunak realises this hence a reshuffle to try and lurch back towards the centre ahead of a GE. He sees the polls and understands that the UK voters have seen through the folly into far right ideology as bollocks. Hating individuals and institutions doesn’t address the cost of living, crumbling schools, stagnating economies, the health of our rivers, the rise in poverty, the state of the NHS, the state of the prisons etc etc etc.
 
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
Feels like the sudden concern about anti-semitism and protection for religious freedom on the rightward fringes of European politics is somewhat undermined when a party that wants to straight up ban Islam wins an election.

I find it more chilling than interesting, personally.
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It’s worrying but not surprising looking at what’s happening across European elections recently. Cost of living issues for most countries, high immigration, people feeling they’re not being listened to. They were some of the main drivers for Brexit here but those in the Euro are kinda stuck so will go down the right wing populist route by the looks of things…..which is far more concerning
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
It’s worrying but not surprising looking at what’s happening across European elections recently. Cost of living issues for most countries, high immigration, people feeling they’re not being listened to. They were some of the main drivers for Brexit here but those in the Euro are kinda stuck so will go down the right wing populist route by the looks of things…..which is far more concerning
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“Far more concerning” than the largest party in an EU country vowing to straight up ban a religion from operating? It sounds to me like the train has left the station.

I wonder if we will see any calls for anti-Islamophobia marches today.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
C

CCFCSteve

Well-Known Member
SBT said:
“Far more concerning” than the largest party in an EU country vowing to straight up ban a religion from operating? It sounds to me like the train has left the station.

I wonder if we will see any calls for anti-Islamophobia marches today.
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I was saying the rise of the far right parties across Europe is far more concerning than Brexit
 
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shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I was saying the rise of the far right parties across Europe is far more concerning than Brexit
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We don’t really do fascism here, despite the best efforts of some. Places with PR generally have a more active fringe. Wilders has been around for decades for example.

I think you’re right that the driver for Brexit was the same which was a high profile number of brown people in the media looking scary. Not sure you can claim cozzy livs in 2014.
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I was saying the rise of the far right parties across Europe is far more concerning than Brexit
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Wilders has also called for a referendum on leaving the EU. Politicians with a desire to drive out certain ethnic groups from their society certainly see the EU as an obstacle to their goals at the moment. Pretty horrifying that countries in Europe are openly embracing them.
 
Grendel

Grendel

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Ultimately they’ll end up regretting it. Far right parties do not make good government. We’ve seen this all around the world in the last decade from Brazil to the US to Italy. Even in this country, the further the government lurch to the right the worse they’ve became. Even Sunak realises this hence a reshuffle to try and lurch back towards the centre ahead of a GE. He sees the polls and understands that the UK voters have seen through the folly into far right ideology as bollocks. Hating individuals and institutions doesn’t address the cost of living, crumbling schools, stagnating economies, the health of our rivers, the rise in poverty, the state of the NHS, the state of the prisons etc etc etc.
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I doubt his party will form a government
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
CCFCSteve said:
I was saying the rise of the far right parties across Europe is far more concerning than Brexit
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He has two choices temper his offering and hope others will govern with him or do what the Dublin Shinners did and be largest party but sit out government for a cycle and be favourites to win big next time round.

If he elects to try and form a government now which he looks like he wants to then his government will will have to be a in coalition where around 50% of the coalition seats are not his party so the really far right stuff will be off the agenda
 
P

PVA

Well-Known Member
wingy said:
I don't know what his stance is but fascism's language is rife in this Govt.
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The government have ticked off most of these in the last 4 years


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Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Sky_Blue_Dreamer

Well-Known Member
skybluetony176 said:
Ultimately they’ll end up regretting it. Far right parties do not make good government. We’ve seen this all around the world in the last decade from Brazil to the US to Italy. Even in this country, the further the government lurch to the right the worse they’ve became. Even Sunak realises this hence a reshuffle to try and lurch back towards the centre ahead of a GE. He sees the polls and understands that the UK voters have seen through the folly into far right ideology as bollocks. Hating individuals and institutions doesn’t address the cost of living, crumbling schools, stagnating economies, the health of our rivers, the rise in poverty, the state of the NHS, the state of the prisons etc etc etc.
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Indeed, but pandering to the rich and powerful by giving them tax breaks doesn't address those things either.

It may not be quite as damaging nonsense, but it is still nonsense
 
D

Deleted member 5849

Guest
shmmeee said:
We don’t really do fascism here, despite the best efforts of some. Places with PR generally have a more active fringe. Wilders has been around for decades for example.

I think you’re right that the driver for Brexit was the same which was a high profile number of brown people in the media looking scary. Not sure you can claim cozzy livs in 2014.
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I don't really like the sensationalism I'm about to do, but we have to watch we don't go down that route by extreme nutters infiltrating our mainstream right wing party to too great an extent.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't really like the sensationalism I'm about to do, but we have to watch we don't go down that route by extreme nutters infiltrating our mainstream right wing party to too great an extent.
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To be fair to Wilders he has grown his own party rather than infiltrate the PVV.
 
David O'Day

David O'Day

Well-Known Member
Looking at the numbers it will be hard for him to form a government without 1 of the PVV or the red/green alliance
 
S

SBT

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't really like the sensationalism I'm about to do, but we have to watch we don't go down that route by extreme nutters infiltrating our mainstream right wing party to too great an extent.
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I think it’s spectacularly naive to assume that there’s some kind of inherent ‘Britishness’ that would stop us going down a similar road.
 
Sick Boy

Sick Boy

Super Moderator
shmmeee said:
We don’t really do fascism here, despite the best efforts of some. Places with PR generally have a more active fringe. Wilders has been around for decades for example.

I think you’re right that the driver for Brexit was the same which was a high profile number of brown people in the media looking scary. Not sure you can claim cozzy livs in 2014.
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Meloni is a huge Sunak fan, which says it all about the current government.
 
shmmeee

shmmeee

Well-Known Member
Deleted member 5849 said:
I don't really like the sensationalism I'm about to do, but we have to watch we don't go down that route by extreme nutters infiltrating our mainstream right wing party to too great an extent.
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Except as we’ve seen when they do that they end up being beyond the pale.

For all the issues with our democracy, it’s pretty hard to go full fash cos the moderate wing can’t claim to have nothing to do with the nutters. Look what’s happened when the fringes have taken over the two main parties recently: an exodus of moderates which leads to electoral disaster.

Everywhere has 20-30% nutters on each side, but those nutters only ever get properly represented in PR systems. There’s a reason Farage has never won an elected position under FPTP.

All the same reasons radical left wing people want a break from the neoliberal economic consensus, so too radical right wing people from the neoliberal social consensus.
 
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