TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Bye Tony. I look forward to your next post. I'm sure it'll be truly enlightening with absolutely no hint of hysterical bullshit.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (125 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
You okay hun?
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
Well I'm mentally stable which is more than I can say for some.
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COV
Well-Known Member
You’re in the wrong place here then m8
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
It was years ago so can't remember exactly what it was but it was basically around the time things were starting to come out about the dispute and that the blame might not 100% lie with SISU. Mine was just 'we know who you are', well obviously if you're messaging me on Facebook, and 'we know where you work', unlikely my employer would fire me for saying SISU might not being entirely to blame for us being in Northampton. It was laughable really but I know others got similar and some people got messages threatening them with lawyers if they said anything against certain sides in the dispute.
Don't really hide it to be honest. Although if you google chiefdave and coventry now you get a lot of results for Dave Boddy as he's usually referred to as 'Coventry City chief Dave Boddy', he's done wonders for my online anonymity
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
No one is forcing anyone to sign up to random social media sites.....and any site that held your card details would be subject to the same scrutiny and rules as retailers are now.....
...also Twitter dont need to enforce anything other than be strict on only registering actual real adults....not kids or bots etc.
It's also a backup so when rimplestiltskin tweets to threatens rashford or sancho cos they missed a pen, the old bill can go and kick his/her/their door in
....I dunno....I'm pissed. This place (which is fucking ace) is the only social medya use innit
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
But the point is this is a U.K. law and Twitter is global. Unless we’re about to convince every country to do this or Twitter to restrict itself to just those countries that do anonymity will be only a VPN away.
They tried this with the wank pass and that was infinitely more workable than this.
Politicians don’t like to hear this but the internet was designed to enable free and anonymous exchange of information that routes around blocks. And there’s an army of programmers out there with an ideological dislike of authoritarian tech. Even Apple can’t make a fully secure system, even the Russia and Chinese can’t with all their power over their own citizens.
You either shut yourself off from the internet or you accept you don’t control it.
It’s King Cnut levels of delusion. Like promising you’ll make all rapists turn themselves in or stop it raining. It’s just not within their power.
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
Yep....you're probably right....and with that in mind then, people on twitter have to accept that a proportion of its tweeters are rapists, murderers, racists , bullies & general grade A cunts......and so therefore if you're happy to play in the cesspit, you can't moan when you get covered in shit.
Sky_Blue_Dreamer
Well-Known Member
COV
Well-Known Member
Are they not already?
Absolutely.
But as with all this shit the government pulls it will be completely ignored by the media and 95 if not 99% of the population will be completely unaware of it.
It's just absurd they don't get taken to task on this kind of shit.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Thought this was interesting regarding polls:
Basically the polling hiding a swing to Labour because so many have gone to the Greens. Received wisdom holds that smaller parties inflate away from election periods and get squeezed back to the main parties closer to polling day, which would suggest polls are closer and also that Labour is picking up a decent amount of Leave voters.
Basically the polling hiding a swing to Labour because so many have gone to the Greens. Received wisdom holds that smaller parties inflate away from election periods and get squeezed back to the main parties closer to polling day, which would suggest polls are closer and also that Labour is picking up a decent amount of Leave voters.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
It's not that surprising really, a lot of Labour leave voters held their nose and voted Tory as Labour were trying to stab them in the back. With that now done and with Corbyn gone some will revert to type, some won't.
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oakey
Well-Known Member
"Stab them in the back" or "Allow a chance for a rethink"?
Labour's timidity and fence sitting over Brexit lost both Leavers and Remainers as I feared it would all along.
From day one Labour should have labelled it "Tory Quitters" and had nothing to do with it. But we all know Labour was too divided and many on the left loved Brexit.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
No appetite for a rethink other than from those that didn't get their way I'm afraid. Should have stuck with the vote from day 1, their remain voters still wouldn't have voted Tory.
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oakey
Well-Known Member
That isn't true. Many Remain voters did vote Tory. They were persuaded that "Get Brexit done" was all that mattered. Yet the Tories and Brexit parties combined got under 50% of the vote. There was a potential to unite the anti-Brexit vote and then who knows what the GE would have seen, but Labour, under Corbyn seemed happy to facilitate Tory Brexit.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
You think many Labour remain voters voted Tory? I think you're wrong.
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oakey
Well-Known Member
I didn't say Labour Remain voters.
In any case, if you are Labour leaning and voted Leave why would you characterise Labour as backstabbing as opposed to allowing you to change your mind? You could still choose the Tories if you still wanted Brexit without feeling angry or aggrieved at Labour.
Chris Tarrant- is that your final answer?
Yes and stop trying to stab me in the back!
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
You might not have said Labour remain voters but I did.
I'd characterise it as back stabbing because it is... we think you are stupid and made a poor decision are you sure you wouldn't like to change your mind? That worked well didn't it.
Democracy isn't really comparable to an episode of Who Wants to be a Millionaire is it really.
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Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
I don't know many MPs full stop who have actually called for or wanted to co-ordinate violence. Oh wait, I know one.
The ironic thing is that Corbyn’s personal Brexit stance would actually have been popular in these seats and in the past he had given leftist arguments in favour of it.
oakey
Well-Known Member
Asking people to reflect and rethink is not calling them stupid otherwise you could never have new elections.
Democracy is thought to be the best way to arrive at good outcomes. Changing your mind is strength not stupidity. It's why in every contract you will ever sign there are get out clauses and money back guarantees, cooling off periods etc.
Research suggests 2/3 Labour voters chose Remain. If Labour had backed Brexit fully they would not have been representing the majority of their supporters.
It was an historic mistake for Labour to get into bed with the Tories over Brexit.
Democracy is thought to be the best way to arrive at good outcomes. Changing your mind is strength not stupidity. It's why in every contract you will ever sign there are get out clauses and money back guarantees, cooling off periods etc.
Research suggests 2/3 Labour voters chose Remain. If Labour had backed Brexit fully they would not have been representing the majority of their supporters.
It was an historic mistake for Labour to get into bed with the Tories over Brexit.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
I agree, he should have had the balls to stand by it.
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clint van damme
Well-Known Member
I don't know, when it comes to dishing out lucrative contracts the government certainly aren't adverse to phoning a friend.
oakey
Well-Known Member
I think you may be right.
But Labour would have split and we may have sèen a new centre party/alliance or lost the votes of me and millions of others.
It may have been a better outcome than what we have now.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
The problem with Labours position IMO was most people were sick of Brexit and wanted it over one way or another. They were promising dragging it out some more with renegotiation. Which is ironic as almost two years later and we’re still talking about renegotiation.
Most rabid Brexit voters I spoke to weren’t happy at being asked to vote again with an option to remain as they saw the matter as settled, but would’ve settled for a new vote on the type of Brexit (e.g. customs Union vs not). IMO that should’ve been Labours tactic but they let the PV crowd have too much say.
Most rabid Brexit voters I spoke to weren’t happy at being asked to vote again with an option to remain as they saw the matter as settled, but would’ve settled for a new vote on the type of Brexit (e.g. customs Union vs not). IMO that should’ve been Labours tactic but they let the PV crowd have too much say.
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
I disagree with you, I think Labour remain voters would have largely stayed with them regardless. No one votes for Lib Dems and Change UK was it? Well... lol
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oakey
Well-Known Member
Again, you may be right but don't underestimate how strongly millions of Remainers feel. It will be a factor in pulling many Labour leaning voters towards Greens, LDs, SNP and PC. Enough to stop Labour in many constituencies.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
Think supplying a journalist’s address to help arrange their assault
TomRad85
Well-Known Member
What still? Surely now most accept its done and will return to Labour? I think Labour will do better at the next GE (not hard I know.)
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Ian1779
Well-Known Member
You can’t go against the basic will of the people. It’s democracy in its most fundamental form, and if happened in another country we’d be sending in monitors and the like.
You can argue the merits of its shitness all day long, but it had to be honoured.
In the future of the voting public want it enough, they should be given the chance to rejoin if they so desire.
oakey
Well-Known Member
We'll have to disagree amicably then.
The 'will of the people' is a nonsense phrase to me. We are all individuals and there is no fixed will or opinion. Such a notion is fascistic as it imagines a collective which doesn't exist. The people who got to vote didn't include British residents who were EU citizens for example, or anyone currently under the age of 23.
Referendums should only be held on definite propositions if at all. They should require supermajorities if they involve major constitutional change.
It is a perversion of democracy.
Ian1779
Well-Known Member
I won’t actually disagree with anything you said here - the referendum was a sham from start to finish… BUT most people aren’t aware of the finer details of it all. They saw Labour’s approach as an assault on democracy… ignoring the fact that Cameron’s fudge to solve an interval party dispute was far worse.
One thing that the Remain camp have still failed to do to this day is really look inwards as to why it lost.
oakey
Well-Known Member
Absolutely, and I'm not trying to rerun the whole thing. Too late for that.
But I am trying to explain how Labour got in a mess trying to keep their Leave voters onside instead of taking a clear stand against Brexit. It was difficult but by trying to placate everyone they pleased no-one.
IMO many Remain voters will not just meekly go back to supporting Labour. They are just as much a headache for Labour as Red wall Leavers.