Do you want to discuss boring politics? (20 Viewers)

[Deleted member 9744]

Would you give Viktor a goal bonus in his contract or suggest that as a striker he doesn't need one because his job is to score goals?

Football is rather different to the sorts of jobs we were talking about.

Also is this why Viktor never passes the ball?

 

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[rob9872]

Football is rather different to the sorts of jobs we were talking about.

Also is this why Viktor never passes the ball?

No , that's because he passed to Jamie Allen 3 times in a half and he failed to hit the target

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Jeez.

Is there anything else you’d like to do?

I could retrain in computing I suppose, but it’s not my passion. Picked the wrong subject it seems

 

[rob9872]

I could retrain in computing I suppose, but it’s not my passion. Picked the wrong subject it seems

You didnt. Science evolves, but your fundamentals remain constant. Computing is continual learning to remain current. I nearly went down that route as a school leaver and so glad that I didnt.

Edit: - I also nearly became a copper, pleased I didnt do that either as I reckon I'd have either been sacked for taking a bung or spending too much time down the boozer with my 'snout'

 

[shmmeee]

I could retrain in computing I suppose, but it’s not my passion. Picked the wrong subject it seems

Ultimately it’s about the stress and work life balance as much as the cash. You don’t have to do Computing. There’s people working in all sorts earning a decent wage. Sales and marketing for example, project management.

 

[shmmeee]

You didnt. Science evolves, but your fundamentals remain constant. Computing is continual learning to remain current. I nearly went down that route as a school leaver and so glad that I didnt.

I dunno, new tech appears but the basics rarely change. I’m learning AWS at the moment and it’s just Computing in the cloud, there’s no fundamentally new concepts.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Ultimately it’s about the stress and work life balance as much as the cash. You don’t have to do Computing. There’s people working in all sorts earning a decent wage. Sales and marketing for example, project management.

Teaching is a decent wage. I just have to work 55-60 hours a week to collect it!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Performance related pay is a disaster. It's time consuming to administer; creates a divisive team culture; demotivates the majority of employees and is often used to reward people who don't deserve it. Anyone who is good and would get the additional pay is obviously motivated anyway so it's a waste of money.

Under performance should be dealt with through capability or disciplinary procedures. Just not paying such people as much leads yo further under performance.

I tend to agree with this - it motivates those who aren't bothered about doing the job well, just getting the pay and will just do those things that are necessary to do that, including treating other co-workers badly. This is turn demotivates those that are actually doing a better overall job because they're picking up the slack for nothing. So then you just have people working towards those metrics that get them rewards, such as exam results, rather than doing the job well.

Also within organisations you get different departments working against each other to meet their own personal performance targets when the impact on the organsiation overall is a bad one.

 

[rob9872]

Teaching is a decent wage. I just have to work 55-60 hours a week to collect it!

8.45 to 3.15 less an hour's lunch and 2 x 15 min breaks is only 5 hours. As there aren't 11 or 12 days in a week that's impossible. Good job you aren't a maths teacher

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Would you give Viktor a goal bonus in his contract or suggest that as a striker he doesn't need one because his job is to score goals?

Personally no, because it incentivizes him to be greedy and shoot when it may be better to pass.

Only bonuses I think you exist are ones that everyone in the team gets, like win bonuses. Everyone is working towards whats best for the team overall rather than maybe having their own conflicting personal incentives. Anything like goal or clean sheet bonuses get paid out to everyone on the pitch, not jut the scorer or the keeper/defenders.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

8.45 to 3.15 less an hour's lunch and 2 x 15 min breaks is only 5 hours. As there aren't 11 or 12 days in a week that's impossible. Good job you aren't a maths teacher

I arrive at 7 and leave at 6 each day. Mark in the morning, prepare lessons in the evening. Write reports and enter data at other points, occasional parents evenings too.

The holiday really is getting back that unpaid overtime.

 

[rob9872]

I arrive at 7 and leave at 6 each day. Mark in the morning, prepare lessons in the evening. Write reports and enter data at other points, occasional parents evenings too.

The holiday really is getting back that unpaid overtime.

I was of course doing my usual best to bait you, but in seriousness if that is the extent of it, then 7am to 6pm (assuming you have a lunch break) is 10 hours per day, 50 per week. If you average an extra 10 weeks holiday to private sector employees (16 v 6 is that fair?) then it's only 80% of that and a 40 hour week which I would think most people do.

On that basis your being paid for a standard working week, so whether it's fair depends on where you see that in terms of status or opportunity and your work life balance. Should the average teacher be more or less than a constable in the police or eg a grade 4 nurse? (guessing btw not sure of the direct comparison).

*genuine question too, not fishing for giggles as I really don't know.

 

[Ian1779]

Probably not quite as important either . I’ve got views around salaries etc but don’t know enough about set up in public sector pay levels etc so some of these might already happen…

Increased rewards for higher performance (what’s the pay differential between a great teacher and a shit one excl heads of department etc ?)
Higher salaries for subjects where there’s shortages
Much higher salaries to attract best teachers into poor performing/less attractive schools
Offer nurses (and potentially other public sector) a chance to flex emp’er pension contributions by 5% or so for period of time to increase basic in short term
More bursaries for areas where there’s shortages

These suggestion are realistically moot when you don’t even support the notion of teachers having a salary that is in line with the cost of living.

 

[shmmeee]

8.45 to 3.15 less an hour's lunch and 2 x 15 min breaks is only 5 hours. As there aren't 11 or 12 days in a week that's impossible. Good job you aren't a maths teacher

 

[shmmeee]

I was of course doing my usual best to bait you, but in seriousness if that is the extent of it, then 7am to 6pm (assuming you have a lunch break) is 10 hours per day, 50 per week. If you average an extra 10 weeks holiday to private sector employees (16 v 6 is that fair?) then it's only 80% of that and a 40 hour week which I would think most people do.

On that basis your being paid for a standard working week, so whether it's fair depends on where you see that in terms of status or opportunity and your work life balance. Should the average teacher be more or less than a constable in the police or eg a grade 4 nurse? (guessing btw not sure of the direct comparison).

*genuine question too, not fishing for giggles as I really don't know.

You’re missing evening weekend and holiday work. Most teachers I know work all Sunday afternoon/evening, a couple of hours most nights, and at least half their holiday time. As HoD I regularly was in at 7 out at 8 until I had kids.

Also most teachers don’t have a lunch break or any other break. Except maybe a quick toilet stop.

You’ve also overestimated holidays, school is out 13 weeks a year not 16.

At the end of the day all this is irrelevant. There’s a staffing crisis and a retention crisis so all the sniping you want doesn’t change the fact we can’t recruit and retain what we need to run the service. Same as healthcare.

 

[clint van damme]

Edit: - I also nearly became a copper

The least surprising thing I've ever read on this forum.

 

[CCFCSteve]

The life expectancy in here and in France is roughly the same.

Yeah, I was talking about living a lot longer than we did in the past when 65 was picked as pensionable age.

 

[chiefdave]

Theres not doubt the government wouldn’t want to be seen backing down straight away but as the article says the unwillingness to modernise was also another main issue.

You seem to have fallen hook, line and sinker for government spin. Nobody is against modernisation of the railways, certainly not the unions who have been supportive of the modernisation that has taken place in recent years

When I think of modernisation I think of sparkly new stations with modern facilities, new rolling stock to replace the leased offcasts no longer needed by European train companies, electrification of the lines so we aren't scratching round for diesel rolling stock - the issue that prevents extra match day trains to the Ricoh, improved safety and things like that

What I don't think of is efficiency improvements, job cuts and poorer terms for workers which is what the government is referring to. Not sure I'm keen on reduced staff and longer hours for those in safety critical roles, unstaffed trains, unstaffed stations, ticket office closures and some of the other things being refereed to as modernisation

 

[chiefdave]

The teaching challenges don’t get publicity but for example my daughter is no longer taught Computing because they simply can’t find any staff. Even asked if I’d be willing to work one day a week for them.

My first job was working in a college in the late 90s. At that point it became mandatory for every student, no matter what they were studying, to do a computing module. The college I worked at had courses like hairdressing and health & beauty stuff and they all still had to pass computing modules to pass their courses. Unbelievable that we're now in a position where kids in schools are skipping computing because there's nobody to teach them

 

[Nick]

"COST OF LIVING FOR TEACHERS"
"I CANT LEAVE BECAUSE NOT MUCH ELSE PAYS £50k"

Am I reading this right?

 

[chiefdave]

"COST OF LIVING FOR TEACHERS"
"I CANT LEAVE BECAUSE NOT MUCH ELSE PAYS £50k"

Am I reading this right?

to be fair when salaries are talked about on here loads of people talk about being on 6 figures and how anyone who isn't getting that is in the wrong job or lazy

 

[Nick]

to be fair when salaries are talked about on here loads of people talk about being on 6 figures and how anyone who isn't getting that is in the wrong job or lazy

Think it's more living within means most of the time and expectations.

ie. Don't buy a house that will absolutely skint you every month, don't buy cars for silly monthly payments, don't rush to get the latest iPhone if you don't really need it. (That's not saying that all struggling people do this, I also know people who are absolutely skint every month and tell everybody. They also live in houses in the nicer areas with huge mortgages and drive cars on finance which will probably take a fair bit of their income every month).

Whether that's education of finance, wanting to keep up with the Joneses etc I don't know. I've always preferred to be comfortable and maybe not live in the posher areas or drive brand new top-of-the-range cars but be able to heat / feed and socialise / not struggle every month etc.

 

[chiefdave]

We live a lot longer as well. Theres a massive pension/aging population timebomb that nobody wants to discuss. It’s also a massive problem with public sector pensions

I think there's plenty of people happy to discuss it. The problem at the moment seems to be a complete lack of discussion

All we currently seem to get is a generation paying record levels of tax being told there's not enough money to care for the current elderly section population while being told their retirement age is going up and they need to pay a big chunk of their salary into a private pension as there will be fuck all left by the time they get to retirement

Hear very little about fixing a care system that's on the verge of collapse or discussion around if we're doing the right thing keeping people alive thanks to the miracles of modern healthcare long past an age their bodies can cope with

 

[fernandopartridge]

We live a lot longer as well. Theres a massive pension/aging population timebomb that nobody wants to discuss. It’s also a massive problem with public sector pensions

There is no problem at all with public sector pensions really, the government could never ever run out of the money to pay pensions and it's hardly inflationary either

 

[fernandopartridge]

Think it's more living within means most of the time and expectations.

ie. Don't buy a house that will absolutely skint you every month, don't buy cars for silly monthly payments, don't rush to get the latest iPhone if you don't really need it. (That's not saying that all struggling people do this, I also know people who are absolutely skint every month and tell everybody. They also live in houses in the nicer areas with huge mortgages and drive cars on finance which will probably take a fair bit of their income every month).

Whether that's education of finance, wanting to keep up with the Joneses etc I don't know. I've always preferred to be comfortable and maybe not live in the posher areas or drive brand new top-of-the-range cars but be able to heat / feed and socialise / not struggle every month etc.

I get all that Nick but our economy is built around consumption of goods and services "don't buy tech, don't buy coffee, don't buy meals" etc

The single biggest problem that successive governments have failed to address is house prices and everybody is paying the price for it.

 

[chiefdave]

Looks like most of the levelling up funding has gone to London and the South East. Big fat nothing for Cov as obviously there's nothing in the city that needs funding

Of course they managed to find £19m for Sunaks constituency

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I was of course doing my usual best to bait you, but in seriousness if that is the extent of it, then 7am to 6pm (assuming you have a lunch break) is 10 hours per day, 50 per week. If you average an extra 10 weeks holiday to private sector employees (16 v 6 is that fair?) then it's only 80% of that and a 40 hour week which I would think most people do.

On that basis your being paid for a standard working week, so whether it's fair depends on where you see that in terms of status or opportunity and your work life balance. Should the average teacher be more or less than a constable in the police or eg a grade 4 nurse? (guessing btw not sure of the direct comparison).

*genuine question too, not fishing for giggles as I really don't know.

You have missed duties off that list which are done during break and lunch hours. For your genuine question, you are comparing apples with oranges. My own view would be that education, health and emergency services are essential and skilled, and as they serve the whole public, they should be well remunerated.

I’m not going to go into wage Top Trumps with a nurse.

 

[Ian1779]

Think it's more living within means most of the time and expectations.

ie. Don't buy a house that will absolutely skint you every month, don't buy cars for silly monthly payments, don't rush to get the latest iPhone if you don't really need it. (That's not saying that all struggling people do this, I also know people who are absolutely skint every month and tell everybody. They also live in houses in the nicer areas with huge mortgages and drive cars on finance which will probably take a fair bit of their income every month).

Whether that's education of finance, wanting to keep up with the Joneses etc I don't know. I've always preferred to be comfortable and maybe not live in the posher areas or drive brand new top-of-the-range cars but be able to heat / feed and socialise / not struggle every month etc.

With respect you’re parroting a load of culture war bollocks without the slightest clue of what you are talking about.

 

[shmmeee]

Think it's more living within means most of the time and expectations.

ie. Don't buy a house that will absolutely skint you every month, don't buy cars for silly monthly payments, don't rush to get the latest iPhone if you don't really need it. (That's not saying that all struggling people do this, I also know people who are absolutely skint every month and tell everybody. They also live in houses in the nicer areas with huge mortgages and drive cars on finance which will probably take a fair bit of their income every month).

Whether that's education of finance, wanting to keep up with the Joneses etc I don't know. I've always preferred to be comfortable and maybe not live in the posher areas or drive brand new top-of-the-range cars but be able to heat / feed and socialise / not struggle every month etc.

Mate. When I was a teacher I lived in a 2 bed in Foleshill with my teacher missus and drove a second hand Megane.

 

[clint van damme]

Think it's more living within means most of the time and expectations.

ie. Don't buy a house that will absolutely skint you every month, don't buy cars for silly monthly payments, don't rush to get the latest iPhone if you don't really need it. (That's not saying that all struggling people do this, I also know people who are absolutely skint every month and tell everybody. They also live in houses in the nicer areas with huge mortgages and drive cars on finance which will probably take a fair bit of their income every month).

Whether that's education of finance, wanting to keep up with the Joneses etc I don't know. I've always preferred to be comfortable and maybe not live in the posher areas or drive brand new top-of-the-range cars but be able to heat / feed and socialise / not struggle every month etc.

How people manage their finances is a seperate issue.
In this country we don't respect teachers, nurses, doctors etc and that is reflected in the government's attitude towards their pay and conditions. They're leaving those professions I their droves and we're struggling to recruit reolacements and it's only going to get worse.

People need to wake up, stop listening to this tory culture war bollocks and decide if they want a society with good health care and education where everyone is valued.

 

[Nick]

With respect you’re parroting a load of culture war bollocks without the slightest clue of what you are talking about.

Hardly culture war to point out that sometimes people need to live within their means and be realistic.

That's coming from somebody with about 5 GCSEs and from a dodgy estate.

People just want to blame the government sometimes though don't they? Yeah they are cunts but if you want to change your own situation then it's best not to rely on them in general.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

Yeah they are cunts but if you want to change your own situation then it's best not to rely on them.

Hence going on strike.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hardly culture war to point out that sometimes people need to live within their means and be realistic.

That's coming from somebody with about 5 GCSEs and from a dodgy estate.

People just want to blame the government sometimes though don't they? Yeah they are cunts but if you want to change your own situation then it's best not to rely on them in general.

This is the Lee Anderson school of thinking.

 

[Ian1779]

Hardly culture war to point out that sometimes people need to live within their means and be realistic.

That's coming from somebody with about 5 GCSEs and from a dodgy estate.

People just want to blame the government sometimes though don't they? Yeah they are cunts but if you want to change your own situation then it's best not to rely on them in general.

Your comment is virtually verbatim of the nonsense argument spouted by clowns like 30p Lee.

For someone that claims to be ‘non-political’ you do a more comprehensive job of spouting Tory culture war lines than nearly anyone else.

 

[Ian1779]

Nick’s burner account on Twitter.