duffer
Well-Known Member
File this one under "they're making it up as they're going along".
(Below: Department head returning underspend...)
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (36 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
File this one under "they're making it up as they're going along".
(Below: Department head returning underspend...)
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
File this one under "they're making it up as they're going along".
(Below: Department head returning underspend...)
Quite literally. The financial plans for post 2024 are basically a fiction. It should be illegal for an outgoing government to basically give up years from an election TBH.
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skybluetony176
Well-Known Member
Joking apart, I’ve still not seen the reasons as to why there was government borrowing on inflation linked bonds rather than just raising it like normal on the gilt market. Anyone know ? Some of the decisions appear shambolic !
Ps having said that I saw USAs debt servicing cost went up to 650bn last year
. The western world has been hooked on cheap money and QE for too long and it feels like it’s payback time
Ps having said that I saw USAs debt servicing cost went up to 650bn last year
. The western world has been hooked on cheap money and QE for too long and it feels like it’s payback time
jimmyhillsfanclub
Well-Known Member
aye....this neoliberal ponzi scheme won't fund itself.......we gotta feed the machine.....
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I mean, we joke, but there’s no plan for growth that involves cutting everything to the bone. We’ve had 13 years to “fix the roof” and we appear to have ended up with one of those DIY SOS homes that needs to be levelled.
Really not sure how you get out of this without it getting worse in some way. Either public services go even more to shit and we drive people into homelessness or we pile on more debt in an attempt to grow and provide basic services in the mean time.
Weirdly it’ll be the people who bang on about Gordon Brown selling the gold that won’t remember a lick of this come next election.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Tax, spend, return to Keynesian.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Gonna be politically hard to raise taxes in the middle of a cost of living crisis. We saw what even Corbyns “no one earning under £80k will pay more” turned out.
I’ve said before as a higher rate tax payer I think I should pay more, I’d be happy to see another couple of percent on the top rate. I’m not a millionaire but I like the idea of a wealth tax and a minimum floor on top rate taxes.
Could come up with policy all day, but ultimately it will all be reported as if you’re stealing from pensioners and the working man.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Oh I know. Somewhere though the conversation needs to begin. It's post Thatcher the concept of paying for things has gone out the window. The old way is people are better off even if they pay now as the serfs end up with cash to waste on things the elite can exploit them for.
And on a basic level, even my Mother in law recognises the NHS is on its knees, but somehow can't make the connection it needs more cash to not be. That's always the way - grew up in a quite respectable village, they were always complaining about a lack of a bus service... but couldn't grasp you can't just have things without a consequence somewhere.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
I’m sure I saw john redwood say it wasn’t about money
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Just down to the massive incompetence of his party then is it?
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
We’ve got a media and political class that is desperate for us to be the US because the right has this weird US obsession since Regan. But at their heart British people aren’t Americans. We care too much about fairness and the NHS and animals and food and the environment to be them. So you have this ridiculous struggle where we claim to want to be low tax small government but can’t move to a U.S. style economy even if we wanted to because there would be a revolt in the Tory shires if we took their approach to regulation.
So we have the worst of both worlds: low productivity/growth and shit services and toothless regulation.
Brexit was a microcosm of this. Are we leaving to become Singapore on sea and get rid of silly EU red tape, or are we leaving because we’re proud Brits who want to do things better and have better public services? Turns out we are neither, we’re a bunch of idiots running around not knowing what we’re doing.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Agree with a lot of that. I still have a confidence in the country as a whole (ever the optimist !), however, nobody appears to have a clear longer term vision for the country, let alone a strategy/plan to get there. With different factions of both major parties also having to be placated and/or watering down ideas/policies
Nobody wants to make the tough decisions and as NW alludes to, the country as a whole doesn’t appear to want to pay more into the pot…having said that after reading the Peston tweet and seeing how much cash is frittered away I can’t really blame people. I think most would pay more if they saw a direct correlation with an improvement in services and infrastructure..not sure we ever see that though
Ps and don’t get me started on the lack of accountability
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
People keep saying no one wants to pay into the pot, but there’s been public support for tax rises quite consistently since the GFC. Less so right now obviously.
I’m not going to pretend I want a U.S. Mad Max style economy, I’m very much team functioning society, but pick a damn lane.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Strangely in the past, tough times were when people were keener to contribute - in it together and all that. It's slightly depressing if that isn't the case anymore as it's one of the things that was great about Britain
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Is that true? Most studies I’ve seen say people get meaner during hard times.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Labour government post world war two the obvious example!
Ditched the man who won the war for a sweet, sweet welfare state.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Not really the same was it? That was about removing the class system and the idea of undeserving poor because everyone taught alongside each other. And winning a war is a pretty good feeling!
Grendel
Well-Known Member
It surprises me the figure is as low as it’s claimed who fall into the trap
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I was surprised by that, given the way house prices have gone up I'd have thought it was more. And if house prices over the long term continue to increase by more than inflation then you'd expect more people to get dragged into it
I can see why it would be popular but surely now is not the time
I wonder if it’s because a fair few people lose most of the property value when they have to cover their social care ?
I’m not a massive fan of IHT but agree, now is not the time to be cutting the tax take from it. Have it as a longer term goal to raise the starting threshold by all means, however, I still think multi millionaires should be (happily) chucking their slice in the pot…let’s be honest most of them have assets tucked away in trusts so those hit by IHT are usually the ordinary man/woman who have just done alright for themselves
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Ours is very punitive compared to most other western countries - what a surprise
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I don’t think some of those rates are correct - well it says maximum I suppose as a rate but it’s pretty misleading
It’sabatch87
Well-Known Member
Eco-protester who targeted George Osborne at his wedding revealed
Eco-protester who targeted George Osborne at his wedding revealed
I’m no tory but what a whopper she is….practise what you preach love!!!
Eco-protester who targeted George Osborne at his wedding revealed
I’m no tory but what a whopper she is….practise what you preach love!!!
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Why is it misleading? You said yourself we have one of the most punitive. We lose out on the very wealthy, as almost always. The idea we need to hit a load of middle class grannies is a nonsense.
It’s the same with almost all taxes, especially wealth taxes. The losses that would be caught be most measures like a floor rate would only hit the wealthiest who are avoiding the most tax. Most comfortable people don’t use these schemes and pay the full whack.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
This is possibly the most ridiculous article I’ve ever read.
She preaches government action. Are you claiming she should overthrow Sunak?
But yeah, I’m sure if you point out enough “hypocrisy” climate change will stop.
clint van damme
Well-Known Member
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
“Frankly, the left has to start caring a lot more about growth, about creating wealth, attracting inward investment and kickstarting a spirit of enterprise,”
Great Keir. And you’ve got a list of these magical growth policies that require zero spend have you? And decided not to pick up the Nobel Prize in Economics for such a discovery? How modest!
He’s going to actually have to do something at some point. He can’t keep making mom and apple pie statements and never actually commit to a policy.
Great Keir. And you’ve got a list of these magical growth policies that require zero spend have you? And decided not to pick up the Nobel Prize in Economics for such a discovery? How modest!
He’s going to actually have to do something at some point. He can’t keep making mom and apple pie statements and never actually commit to a policy.