Do you want to discuss boring politics? (39 Viewers)

[David O'Day]

He is a proper c**t

 

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[David O'Day]

Why have they chosen a clip that has "Tory MPs Fume at July 4th Election" as the news strapline? Do the tory press team hate Sunak that much?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I don't particularly like Starmer and think he comes across as insincere more because of the elaborate attempts to sound working class, but a toolmaker is in my view working class, whether he's self employed or not. As far as I'm concerned, anybody dependent on payment for their labour directly or indirectly is working class.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Anyway, the judgement should be on what they do or say they're going to do, not who they are.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Anyway, the judgement should be on what they do or say they're going to do, not who they are.

Or on what they have or haven’t done in power for the last 14 years

 

[Philosoraptor]

Or on what they have or haven’t done in power for the last 14 years

Or how many 100,000 deaths they've caused around the world.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I see none of them are actually in a rush to see and talk to the public to answer questions. Or at least to say 'hello'.

Got a banner to wave, your their guy!

 

[wingy]

It's not a Tory attack line, so don't start that rubbish mate.

It's the truth. Are you so precious about Starmer that you can't bear some simple facts mate?

I've got to get involved here,there was nothing wrong with having that kind of of dad in the 60's ,as I've said previously drive's a Granada Ghia, driving holidays to France, partnership, four bed detached off styvechale island!
Not living like a footballer nowadays?

 

[shmmeee]

A Class Apart: Prime Ministers’ origins profoundly impact their political worldviews

The background of our Prime Ministers hugely influences the judgements they make. Yet our leaders are drawn from an astonishingly narrow slice of society: every PM who attended an English universit…

blogs.lse.ac.uk

 

[shmmeee]

I see none of them are actually in a rush to see and talk to the public to answer questions. Or at least to say 'hello'.

Got a banner to wave, your their guy!

We’re still in wash up…

 

[fernandopartridge]

I've got to get involved here,there was nothing wrong with having that kind of of dad in the 60's ,as I've said previously drive's a Granada Ghia, driving holidays to France, partnership, four bed detached off styvechale island!
Not living like a footballer nowadays?

It's funny how things have moved on - people on average wages driving about in Range Rovers now

 

[eyesee]

Whether Starmers dad was self employed or not is irrelevant. The fact is he’s not an elite like Rees Mogg or Boris who had every opportunity from birth by the accident of which fanny they fell out of at birth. Starmer is still self made by being naturally intelligent and having the talent to capitalise on that despite coming from humble beginnings. There’s plenty you can judge Starmer on negatively without inventing a scenario where he’s somehow comparable to the born into it elites.

i don't judge starmer on his beginnings. i judge labour on how they have abandoned the working man. it started with blair.
he'll have to tell us what he stands for now. not pie in the sky "fix the nhs", "tackle crime", bs headlines. a bit of detail please, starmer.
and don't forget the people that finance everything this time, please. they have to get something out of the deal.

 

[shmmeee]

i don't judge starmer on his beginnings. i judge labour on how they have abandoned the working man. it started with blair.
he'll have to tell us what he stands for now. not pie in the sky "fix the nhs", "tackle crime", bs headlines. a bit of detail please, starmer.
and don't forget the people that finance everything this time, please. they have to get something out of the deal.

What would be policies that would show a party hasn’t abandoned the working man in your view?

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Prophetic?

 

[skybluetony176]

Putting the boot in on the way out.

 

[skybluetony176]

Gove abandoning the sinking ship now. Not standing.

Ironically Sunak gave his press conference in Belfast from the shipyard where the Titanic was built.

 

[jimmyhillsfanclub]

The British class system debate fascinates me....

Especially the nuances between 21st century middle and working class....and the debate about if you can be born of one class, but truly become another....

 

[BodicoteSkyBlue]

Forgive the cynicism. Is there a financial benefit to all these MPs in standing down now rather than being voted out in the election?

 

[PVA]

Forgive the cynicism. Is there a financial benefit to all these MPs in standing down now rather than being voted out in the election?

Not that I'm aware of. Just very cowardly rats jumping off a sinking ship.

 

[chiefdave]

Forgive the cynicism. Is there a financial benefit to all these MPs in standing down now rather than being voted out in the election?

This is from last year so I would assume still the same. Seems there's no difference but I guess if they're standing down they don't have to spend the next few weeks campaigning and pretending to give a shit. They also won't have a loss on their record if that means anything to anyone.

Departing MPs will get bigger payouts for winding up their offices, with the sum doubling to £17,300, the UK parliament expenses watchdog has announced.

MPs who lose their seats or choose not to stand will be paid for four months after leaving office to enable them to wind up their casework and other duties – doubling from the current period of eight weeks.

MPs who lose their seats also qualify for “loss of office payments” – at twice the rate of statutory redundancy pay – and the winding-up payments come on top of this.

 

[eyesee]

What would be policies that would show a party hasn’t abandoned the working man in your view?

policies that encouraged working, rather than the excessive levels of benefits they seem to like.
there's a place for benefits, of course, but they shouldn't be a career choice.

 

[shmmeee]

policies that encouraged working, rather than the excessive levels of benefits they seem to like.
there's a place for benefits, of course, but they shouldn't be a career choice.

Does anyone think they should be?

Most left wing people complain centrist Labour are too harsh on the poor, I’ve got to say yours is a rare take.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Good thread that highlights the problem with a lot of complaints about Labours electoral strategy. Corbyn won inefficient votes in safe seats. Starmer is winning votes where they are needed to win a majority.

This is why when you campaign in a GE you target certain voters. Young liberal cosmopolitan voters are Labours stock and doubling down on them like Corbyn means you pile up votes in seats you’ve already won.

This is why applying principles or whatever ideological tests to a GE campaign is silly and self defeating. To win an election you need specific voters to vote for you. The Corbynite meme of “look how many total votes Corbyn got” actually highlights exactly how bad at electoral politics he was.

While I get your point, even Corbyn would have had better numbers in other demographics had the Tories been such a massive shit show leading up to his two elections.

I'm yet to be convinced Starmer is attracting many people rather than the Tories making themselves unelectable.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

He’s up against a man whose wife makes him literally richer than the king and it’s *his* working class credentials that are up for debate.

Totally sensible questions not at all influenced by Tory nonsense though

FFY

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

i don't judge starmer on his beginnings. i judge labour on how they have abandoned the working man. it started with blair.
he'll have to tell us what he stands for now. not pie in the sky "fix the nhs", "tackle crime", bs headlines. a bit of detail please, starmer.
and don't forget the people that finance everything this time, please. they have to get something out of the deal.

Why should he put in detail? Boris won a landslide with literally nothing but "Get Brexit Done". No detail, just a tagline.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

policies that encouraged working, rather than the excessive levels of benefits they seem to like.
there's a place for benefits, of course, but they shouldn't be a career choice.

Yeah, leave the not working but get loads of money for doing nothing to the spoilt rich inheritance kids!

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Forgive the cynicism. Is there a financial benefit to all these MPs in standing down now rather than being voted out in the election?

Nah, just don't want to face the embarrassment of a humiliating defeat.

There'll be loads of local activists/councillors willing to suck it up in order to ingratiate themselves to the party bigwigs and improve their chances of being career politicians.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

While I get your point, even Corbyn would have had better numbers in other demographics had the Tories been such a massive shit show leading up to his two elections.

I'm yet to be convinced Starmer is attracting many people rather than the Tories making themselves unelectable.

I’m still pretty convinced that he will be far more competent than Sunak, which is enough for me and a very low bar to meet.

 

[clint van damme]

Why should he put in detail? Boris won a landslide with literally nothing but "Get Brexit Done". No detail, just a tagline.

It's not the way to go though surely?
Johnson getting in on bullshit and bluster was embarrassing, it shouldn't be the model to follow.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

It's not the way to go though surely?
Johnson getting in on bullshit and bluster was embarrassing, it shouldn't be the model to follow.

Ideologically no, but fact is if it works why do something that's different. Every time an actual policy with detail is announced the right wing press will tear it to bits, even for some spurious reason. Favourite is to say the figures are pie in the sky and there's enough people in the country to take that at face value and start trotting out that Labour will bankrupt the country.

So the fact it's the way to go is the fault of us, the electorate, as much as them.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I’m still pretty convinced that he will be far more competent than Sunak, which is enough for me and a very low bar to meet.

I think he will too.

This is about perception and I don't think Starmer is attracting people to him, but they way he and Labour are going about he is definitely putting off some traditional Labour voters, but he'll still get their vote just because the Tories really need to go.

It's like being called the most handsome person in a room after everyone else has been horribly disfigured. It's true but it doesn't mean everything thinks you're hot as fuck.

 

[Mcbean]

I’m still pretty convinced that he will be far more competent than Sunak, which is enough for me and a very low bar to meet.

He should be but he has made some indifferent decisions in the past - then again all of them have some worse than others

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

I think he will too.

This is about perception and I don't think Starmer is attracting people to him, but they way he and Labour are going about he is definitely putting off some traditional Labour voters, but he'll still get their vote just because the Tories really need to go.

It's like being called the most handsome person in a room after everyone else has been horribly disfigured. It's true but it doesn't mean everything thinks you're hot as fuck.

I can understand needing to ‘pivot’ more away from your core values if the opposition is in strong shape, but this Tory government is as weak as possible and widely disliked. You have license to try and offer something more bold and transformative for people.

 

[Philosoraptor]

I can understand needing to ‘pivot’ more away from your core values if the opposition is in strong shape, but this Tory government is as weak as possible and widely disliked. You have license to try and offer something more bold and transformative for people.

Maybe these are the core values of those now running the Labour Party.

Maybe they've just joined the wrong party. Not hard to do after the likes of Blair/Brown

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Maybe these are the core values of those now running the Labour Party.

Maybe they've just joined the wrong party. Not hard to do after the likes of Blair/Brown

Some might have, but not the majority. Rayner for instance is a former trade union official and is behind much of the employment law proposals that Starmer would rather water down.

The problem is the party seeming ashamed of policies that would help the individual and country as a whole, which allows right wing narratives to dominate.