Do you want to discuss boring politics? (90 Viewers)

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Why don't you download the annual report from eg UHCW, that'll give you a proper source of information not a lunatic right wing rag that's entire schtick is winding up pensioners (and idiots).

Like the NHS own workforce statistics that states 52% of its 1.4 million headcount is professionally qualified clinical staff... So the original claim of about half the NHS staff being managers, administrators and non-clinical was right?

 

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[Philosoraptor]

"...Because it is as if you are not allowed to be a Labour MP unless you're prepared to repeat everything the leader says...."

'Labour wants to exclude me from Parliament,' says Diane Abbott

It comes amid a row over whether the party will select the veteran Labour MP to run at the election.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sounds like we are getting to the same level of authoritarianism as North Korea, or any despot dictator.

 

[StrettoBoy]

I would like a tax on permanent second homes. Not, as in someone who has two homes trying to sell there original after a move or sruff like this. It does happen. But those who think they are playing monopoly.

Is it China that does a 25% tax on a 2nd home, and 50% on a 3rd?

Everyone's a winner

There are already some additional taxes on second homes.

There are higher rates of Stamp Duty Land Tax on purchase, Capital Gains Tax on gains made on sale and in some areas there are higher rates of Council Tax.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Like the NHS own workforce statistics that states 52% of its 1.4 million headcount is professionally qualified clinical staff... So the original claim of about half the NHS staff being managers, administrators and non-clinical was right?

What's your point?

 

[CCFCSteve]

Junior doctors call five-day strike just before election

Ministers accuse doctors' union of "cynical" tactics with walkout due to start on 27 June in England.

www.bbc.co.uk

If Labour don't stump up their ridiculous 35% pay demands, i hope the junior doctors give Starmer as rough a ride as they have given this past government. If they don't, it will appear to be a party-political stunt and they will lose support and respect.

Parliaments on election footing, Labour are likely to win and havent got any control over the cash yet, so how on Earth is this justifiable ?

I actually think junior doctors should get a bit more but all this is going to do is potentially cause more problems (or worse) for patients and the nhs itself. Makes no sense. Why not wait until Labour are in and give them a deadline by which they need to come up with a suitable offer otherwise strikes will restart ? Doesn’t reflect well at all on them or the BMA

 

[fernandopartridge]

Labour being silly again



It's the same week they have parachuted this danger into a safe seat in the north east

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

What's your point?

My point now is that you look rather silly for telling me to ‘do some real research’ for citing one Telegraph article which was probably quoting the NHS itself.

This is what happens when you dismiss a source bc you don’t like it rather than the merits of what it’s saying.

 

[fernandopartridge]

My point now is that you look rather silly for telling me to ‘do some real research’ for citing one Telegraph article which was probably quoting the NHS itself.

This is what happens when you dismiss a source bc you don’t like it rather than the merits of what it’s saying.

Are you suggesting the NHS should have a smaller proportion of non clinical staff?

 

[chiefdave]

Labour being silly again



It's the same week they have parachuted this danger into a safe seat in the north east

Find it increasingly difficult to support Starmers Labour. No point talking of a broad church while you’re deselecting people like this, blocking Abbot from running but welcoming Tories into the party with open arms.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Are you suggesting the NHS should have a smaller proportion of non clinical staff?

Yes, every doctor and physio I know who works in the NHS seems to think there’s too much middle management.

All of whom, for your context, are of the Labour left / Greens.

 

[CCFCSteve]

Find it increasingly difficult to support Starmers Labour. No point talking of a broad church while you’re deselecting people like this, blocking Abbot from running but welcoming Tories into the party with open arms.

Looking at ADMs thread and what a friend mentioned, I wonder if there’s more to the Abbott situation. Agree about Elphickie though, although I appreciate the ‘politics’ I still think it was just a very strange move all round

 

[Grendel]

I don’t disagree at all.

You’re making this argument whilst simultaneously holding the view that this VAT increase won’t force people out private education.

To put one child through private education you’re looking at £3k per year. Secondary school is between 5-7 years so that’s a commitment of £15-21k per child in VAT alone. Thats without factoring in price increases from the schools themselves. This is a lot more than the factors you just mentioned - probably combined without doing the maths.

To me, it seems like you’re contradicting yourself here.

He made a claim about foreign nationals in the majority

Hes not got a clue on the subject

 

[Ian1779]

Looking at ADMs thread and what a friend mentioned, I wonder if there’s more to the Abbott situation. Agree about Elphickie though, although I appreciate the ‘politics’ I still think it was just a very strange move all round

A cynic might say if you are part of a minority group then you are not welcome in Labour.
His defenders on here will make up some shite on here about electoral strategy.

 

[shmmeee]

Yes, and about half of people employed by the NHS are managers, administrators and non-medical professionals. To me, a 50:50 split of medical and non-medical seems disproportionate. Yes, you obviously need a bureaucracy to keep things ticking over but not 50:50.

Management levels in the NHS are well below other healthcare services.

Do all your opinions come off Twitter grifters or do you actually look into anything yourself?

 

[shmmeee]

A cynic might say if you are part of a minority group then you are not welcome in Labour.
His defenders on here will make up some shite on here about electoral strategy.

She’s 70 and racist and spends her time slagging the party off and derailing their electoral prospects. Fuck her quite frankly. “Aunty Diane” can get in the bin.

 

[shmmeee]

Shaheen and the ginger lad I’m more sympathetic to. But Diane Abbott is lucky she’s still in the party

 

[shmmeee]

I will say.

I don’t like what’s happened to Shaheen or the other guy, and I’m not a massive fan of Luke Akehurst getting a seat.

But I wasn’t a huge fan of Zarah Sultana being parachuted in, or Jas Athwal having spurious allegations against him right before selection, or almost all Jewish candidates being bullied out the party under Corbyn either.

Some rule changes are needed really so no wing can do this. A lot of this feels like retribution for 2015-19

 

[fernandopartridge]

Yes, every doctor and physio I know who works in the NHS seems to think there’s too much middle management.

All of whom, for your context, are of the Labour left / Greens.

Not my experience day to day in working, where the company I work for actually profits from the NHS having insufficient capacity to perform some basic functions.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Yes, every doctor and physio I know who works in the NHS seems to think there’s too much middle management.

All of whom, for your context, are of the Labour left / Greens.

If you scale up private practice to the size and scope of the NHS it would have WAY more non-clinical staff.

 

[shmmeee]

How ignorant. I wouldn’t dismiss something out hand because The Guardian said something I disagreed with. Prove it wrong.

Both parties agree that the current system is unsustainable so by all means, pretend that all is well. We’ve got a few parliaments to ‘fix’ the NHS before there’s a serious conversation about its future.

Mate. The Telegraph isn’t a serious newspaper and hasn’t been for a while. This isn’t a right/left wing thing. They’ve been Daily Sport levels of journalistic integrity for years.

The NHS was fine 14 years ago, in fact it was the best it’s ever been by many metrics. It only became “unsustainable” when the Tories got in funnily enough.

 

[clint van damme]

Parliaments on election footing, Labour are likely to win and havent got any control over the cash yet, so how on Earth is this justifiable ?

I actually think junior doctors should get a bit more but all this is going to do is potentially cause more problems (or worse) for patients and the nhs itself. Makes no sense. Why not wait until Labour are in and give them a deadline by which they need to come up with a suitable offer otherwise strikes will restart ? Doesn’t reflect well at all on them or the BMA

Doesn't reflect well on the politicians who have run roughshod over their terms and conditions for the last 10 years you mean?
And given Labour's insistence on 'fiscal rules' why mess about with ultimatums? It's clear where they stand.

 

[Mucca Mad Boys]

Management levels in the NHS are well below other healthcare services.

Do all your opinions come off Twitter grifters or do you actually look into anything yourself?

Mate. The Telegraph isn’t a serious newspaper and hasn’t been for a while. This isn’t a right/left wing thing. They’ve been Daily Sport levels of journalistic integrity for years.

The NHS was fine 14 years ago, in fact it was the best it’s ever been by many metrics. It only became “unsustainable” when the Tories got in funnily enough.

Since you’ve done your research and appear to to be an expert, I’d like your help support answering the following:

1. Why is the UK the only country in the developed world to fund healthcare via direct taxation?

2. Where do our healthcare outcomes compare internationally? Pre-2010 as well as currently.

3. Have other countries healthcare systems rebounded from COVID backlogs?

4. At its best, the NHS the best system in the world and is there nothing to take away from alternative systems?

No, you say that about the Telegraph because you don’t like what they have to say. It’s like when people of the right say identical things about left-leaning publications like The Guardian. It’s a toxic trait in politics on both sides of the political spectrum.

 

[Ian1779]

almost all Jewish candidates being bullied out the party under Corbyn either.

 

[fernandopartridge]

Since you’ve done your research and appear to to be an expert, I’d like your help support answering the following:

1. Why is the UK the only country in the developed world to fund healthcare via direct taxation?

2. Where do our healthcare outcomes compare internationally? Pre-2010 as well as currently.

3. Have other countries healthcare systems rebounded from COVID backlogs?

4. At its best, the NHS the best system in the world and is there nothing to take away from alternative systems?

No, you say that about the Telegraph because you don’t like what they have to say. It’s like when people of the right say identical things about left-leaning publications like The Guardian. It’s a toxic trait in politics on both sides of the political spectrum.

Health outcomes aren't solely down to the health service or the method of funding it. The UK's starting position is often worse than European contemporaries because it has some of the worst rates of poverty in Europe and the attendant problems that come with it.

In any event the care is not solely provided by NHS Trusts and Foundation Trusts, plenty is provided by the private sector under the NHS badge.

.

 

[skybluetony176]

"...Because it is as if you are not allowed to be a Labour MP unless you're prepared to repeat everything the leader says...."

'Labour wants to exclude me from Parliament,' says Diane Abbott

It comes amid a row over whether the party will select the veteran Labour MP to run at the election.

www.bbc.co.uk

Sounds like we are getting to the same level of authoritarianism as North Korea, or any despot dictator.

In the interest of balance it’s worth pointing out that Boris cleansed the Tory of non believers in a massive cull and then replaced them with the moronic 2019 intake of nodding donkeys meaning that the Tories are currently swimming in cesspool of talentless chancers who wouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near parliament let alone the cabinet at any other point in history. Let’s face it, no one in the Tories is fit to tie Abbot’s shoes. That’s not praise of Abbot by the way, we all remember what a walking disaster zone she was at the last GE. Although I feel for Abbot and think she’s been treated badly she’s not exactly the strongest link and is a very decisive character. The fact that Starmer is willing to get rid of his weakest link whereas a prerequisite of the Tories at the last GE was you must be a weaker link it in one sense speaks highly of Starmer. He’s a prick for treating her like he has but at least her replacement is likely to be an improvement. Having said all that he should have reinstated her as a Labour MP are beginning of the year and should be letting her run for reelection as a Labour MP.

 

[shmmeee]

Since you’ve done your research and appear to to be an expert, I’d like your help support answering the following:

1. Why is the UK the only country in the developed world to fund healthcare via direct taxation?

2. Where do our healthcare outcomes compare internationally? Pre-2010 as well as currently.

3. Have other countries healthcare systems rebounded from COVID backlogs?

4. At its best, the NHS the best system in the world and is there nothing to take away from alternative systems?

No, you say that about the Telegraph because you don’t like what they have to say. It’s like when people of the right say identical things about left-leaning publications like The Guardian. It’s a toxic trait in politics on both sides of the political spectrum.

I’ll leave FP for the NHS facts, he knows far more than me. Clearly you’re an ideologue who doesn’t believe in the public sector. That’s fine, some people are communists too, but don’t expect such a fringe view to be taken seriously.

The Telegraph is not a serious newspaper. They continually print provable nonsense and conspiracy theories as fact.

 

[David O'Day]

A cynic might say if you are part of a minority group then you are not welcome in Labour.
His defenders on here will make up some shite on here about electoral strategy.

Oh shut up, the Foreign Sec will be a black man

The Mayor of London is an Asian man

There's loads of black and asian candidates.

Debate the matter at hand not some mythical "racism"

 

[Ian1779]

In the interest of balance it’s worth pointing out that Boris cleansed the Tory of non believers in a massive cull and then replaced them with the moronic 2019 intake of nodding donkeys meaning that the Tories are currently swimming in cesspool of talentless chancers who wouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near parliament let alone the cabinet at any other point in history. Let’s face it, no one in the Tories is fit to tie Abbot’s shoes. That’s not praise of Abbot by the way, we all remember what a walking disaster zone she was at the last GE. Although I feel for Abbot and think she’s been treated badly she’s not exactly the strongest link and is a very decisive character. The fact that Starmer is willing to get rid of his weakest link whereas a prerequisite of the Tories at the last GE was you must be a weaker link it in one sense speaks highly of Starmer. He’s a prick for treating her like he has but at least her replacement is likely to be an improvement. Having said all that he should have reinstated her as a Labour MP are beginning of the year and should be letting her run for reelection as a Labour MP.

Maybe it should be the choice of the people that have elected her for the last 37 years…..

 

[shmmeee]

In the interest of balance it’s worth pointing out that Boris cleansed the Tory of non believers in a massive cull and then replaced them with the moronic 2019 intake of nodding donkeys meaning that the Tories are currently swimming in cesspool of talentless chancers who wouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near parliament let alone the cabinet at any other point in history. Let’s face it, no one in the Tories is fit to tie Abbot’s shoes. That’s not praise of Abbot by the way, we all remember what a walking disaster zone she was at the last GE. Although I feel for Abbot and think she’s been treated badly she’s not exactly the strongest link and is a very decisive character. The fact that Starmer is willing to get rid of his weakest link whereas a prerequisite of the Tories at the last GE was you must be a weaker link it in one sense speaks highly of Starmer. He’s a prick for treating her like he has but at least her replacement is likely to be an improvement. Having said all that he should have reinstated her as a Labour MP are beginning of the year and should be letting her run for reelection as a Labour MP.

The only mistake with Abbott afaict was briefing the Times (if that happened) and not letting her announce her retirement herself.

 

[shmmeee]

Maybe it should be the choice of the people that have elected her for the last 37 years…..

When have voters ever selected candidates?

 

[David O'Day]

In the interest of balance it’s worth pointing out that Boris cleansed the Tory of non believers in a massive cull and then replaced them with the moronic 2019 intake of nodding donkeys meaning that the Tories are currently swimming in cesspool of talentless chancers who wouldn’t have been allowed anywhere near parliament let alone the cabinet at any other point in history. Let’s face it, no one in the Tories is fit to tie Abbot’s shoes. That’s not praise of Abbot by the way, we all remember what a walking disaster zone she was at the last GE. Although I feel for Abbot and think she’s been treated badly she’s not exactly the strongest link and is a very decisive character. The fact that Starmer is willing to get rid of his weakest link whereas a prerequisite of the Tories at the last GE was you must be a weaker link it in one sense speaks highly of Starmer. He’s a prick for treating her like he has but at least her replacement is likely to be an improvement. Having said all that he should have reinstated her as a Labour MP are beginning of the year and should be letting her run for reelection as a Labour MP.

Loads of moderates got culled by the Corbyn version of the party in 2019.

 

[Ian1779]

When have voters ever selected candidates?

She is the elected MP for that constituency. It’s not like her CLP have made moves to oust her is it.

 

[Ian1779]

Oh shut up, the Foreign Sec will be a black man

The Mayor of London is an Asian man

There's loads of black and asian candidates.

Debate the matter at hand not some mythical "racism"

So what is the matter at hand exactly? Why have they barred Abbott?

 

[David O'Day]

She is the elected MP for that constituency. It’s not like her CLP have made moves to oust her is it.

CLPs have always only ever selected from who central office says they can pick from

 

[skybluetony176]

Since you’ve done your research and appear to to be an expert, I’d like your help support answering the following:

1. Why is the UK the only country in the developed world to fund healthcare via direct taxation?

2. Where do our healthcare outcomes compare internationally? Pre-2010 as well as currently.

3. Have other countries healthcare systems rebounded from COVID backlogs?

4. At its best, the NHS the best system in the world and is there nothing to take away from alternative systems?

No, you say that about the Telegraph because you don’t like what they have to say. It’s like when people of the right say identical things about left-leaning publications like The Guardian. It’s a toxic trait in politics on both sides of the political spectrum.

1) not even remotely true

2) no idea

3) rebounding from Covid backlogs isn’t the issue, rebounding from pre covid backlogs are. If you drew a linear graph of pre covid growth in backlogs we’re pretty much on the same trajectory. That was a political choice not covid. They tell you it’s Covid because they think you’re stupid enough to believe them. You always have the choice to not indulge them in their belief of you.