Nick
Administrator
It should be, not always the case though. Some people just want everything handed to them or strangely think whoever they vote for will hook them up.
Do you want to discuss boring politics? (18 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
Realignment of the major parties. The best example is UKIP, they promised to leave the EU, the tories respond by offering a referendum. Leave wins and UKIP achieve their political aims without ever winning more than 2 MPs.
Besides, the IFS has come out and criticised both Labour and Tories plans claiming the state of public finances mean tax rises and spending cuts are inevitable. By the looks of it, the programs of Labour and Tory are unrealistic tools
Many voters, including myself, think the tax burden is too high. We can’t expect that to keep raising exponentially. That penny will drop now Labour is in charge.
eyesee
Well-Known Member
that's a really good point.
i was in berlin a few years ago when a debate was raging about immigration. the argument from the government was that the workers were needed to man the machines, and to allow the german people to move up to management jobs.
it was really interesting to hear firsthand how it was being sold to them.
incidentally, a few years later it ultimately led to self-contained holiday lets in berlin being banned, and having to be made available for housing immigrants.
David O'Day
Well-Known Member
Are people comparing David Lammy who had his dad leave the family at 12 and got a choral scholarship with the rich public school types?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Friends is this correct
Mike Jones tell us how Mike? And I assume the illegal immigrants are anyone that comes on a boat or hides under or in a lorry or a van?
For the last records we have ye dec 23 immigration in total was 1.2m of which
85%’of whom have come from non-eu countries
The vast majority are coming to work and bring their families
Most numerous sectors are health and social care
www.gov.uk
29000 of that figure were people in small boats!!!! 29000 out of 1.2m or 0.02%
Further about just shy of 70% asylum claims are accepted
So what do you mean illegal immigration? Just the boats or what areas of health and social care are you going to not deliver?
Mike Jones tell us how Mike? And I assume the illegal immigrants are anyone that comes on a boat or hides under or in a lorry or a van?
For the last records we have ye dec 23 immigration in total was 1.2m of which
85%’of whom have come from non-eu countries
The vast majority are coming to work and bring their families
Most numerous sectors are health and social care
Why do people come to the UK? To work
29000 of that figure were people in small boats!!!! 29000 out of 1.2m or 0.02%
Further about just shy of 70% asylum claims are accepted
So what do you mean illegal immigration? Just the boats or what areas of health and social care are you going to not deliver?
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
AlsoFriends is this correct
Mike Jones tell us how Mike? And I assume the illegal immigrants are anyone that comes on a boat or hides under or in a lorry or a van?
For the last records we have ye dec 23 immigration in total was 1.2m of which
85%’of whom have come from non-eu countries
The vast majority are coming to work and bring their families
Most numerous sectors are health and social care
Why do people come to the UK? To work
29000 of that figure were people in small boats!!!! 29000 out of 1.2m or 0.02%
Further about just shy of 70% asylum claims are accepted
So what do you mean illegal immigration? Just the boats or what areas of health and social care are you going to not deliver?
People crossing the English Channel in small boats - Migration Observatory
This briefing examines the phenomenon of people crossing the English Channel in small boats.
Otis
Well-Known Member
If a week is a long time in politics, 5 years is practically an eternity.
So much could change over the term of this government.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
If you're staying in this country illegally, either after your visa expires or your claim for asylum is refused, what you're not doing is claiming benefits!Also
People crossing the English Channel in small boats - Migration Observatory
This briefing examines the phenomenon of people crossing the English Channel in small boats.migrationobservatory.ox.ac.uk
Otis
Well-Known Member
Pissed down on Sunak too when he announced the election date.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Starmer looks like he's desperate for a dump in the photo they've released of him shaking hands with the king.
Otis
Well-Known Member
A stick insect would have managed far better than Johnson.
21,000 lives lost because of Boris dithering over the pandemic. Then the lies and deceit.
I would definitely vote for the stick insect
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Labour has really really got to deliver tangible improvements in peoples' lives or the next election will be a bit like the one France has just had. Reform are getting that much of the vote because people are seeing their standard of living declining, public services being dreadful, the environment around them falling to pieces and want a simple answer.
Nick
Administrator
Ohhhh so there's a difference now? Funny that.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Er no I’m comparing him to Margaret thatcher as it’s selective education
Nick
Administrator
That's incorrect though isn't it?
There are a few ways people with their asylum refused can still get benefits and somewhere to live.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
First act in government should be to fuck the think tanks (including the completely discredited IFS) and the Tufton St fuckers to the moon
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
The school is comprehensive. It offers places to Cathedral choristors. He did, however, attend a comprehensive school.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
No. If you're on appeal your case has not been finished. If you've been given your notice to leave, you're leaving unless you disappear into the ystem!
fatso
Well-Known Member
Well maybe we should have controlled levels of immigration, where the numbers coming in don't overwhelm our ability to service and maintain our infrastructure. Is that too much to ask?
As far as im aware you haven't come up with an alternative plan for our immigration issue.
What would you suggest is the answer?
How many people do you think we should let in per year?
One person is.
And they're wrong anyway, because it seems his school was a state comprehensive.
Nick
Administrator
If somebody has been refused they can still get benefits if they have kids, they still can if they show they are "trying" to get back.
Of course, the other way is to keep appealing using the charities and pretend to be gay or Christian.
Very naive to think that the government suddenly stops giving money when their asylum is turned down and people leave when they are told.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Immigration has not overwhelmed services or ability to maintain them, austerity has. The users of the most expensive public services are predominantly elderly people.
Philosoraptor
Well-Known Member
How can anyone watch this and think, well this will be a good PM...
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SkyBlue_Bear83
Well-Known Member
Starmer one of the biggest fakes I've seen in a while and conservative a shambles for years now.
Biggest story is the low turnout and labour barely increasing there vote share
Biggest story is the low turnout and labour barely increasing there vote share
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Well it says selective and I’d guess you and Torch will not be happy at this
David Lammy: Highly selective schools have a role in London
www.standard.co.uk
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
You can get section 4 funding if you've been refused asylum but you have to be destitute to qualify and one of the conditions is that you are taking all reasonable steps to exit the country asap.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
So you're cherry-picking something. The school is comprehensive. It offers places to Cathedral choristors. He did, however, attend a comprehensive school.Well it says selective and I’d guess you and Torch will not be happy at this
David Lammy: Highly selective schools have a role in London
Nick
Administrator
Or have kids....
What's the definition of destitute?
Let's not pretend it isn't being abused (yes. Brits abuse it too)
(Not aimed at you)
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
So you're not exactly running around as an illegal immigrant are you. By definition if you're here illegally, you're not claiming benefits!
None of these are actually unreasonable, are they?
- They are taking all reasonable steps to leave the UK
- They are unable to leave the UK due to physical impediment or other medical reason
- They have no safe route of return
- They have been granted permission to appeal in an application for judicial review in relation to their asylum claim
- They require support to avoid a breach of their human rights (this will usually apply if they have made further submissions to the Home Office for a fresh asylum claim)
Now, I'm really boring myself with going over this time and time again with people who don't want to listen (not you btw!) but the problem is not allowing people to claim asylum, that is a fundamental human right. The issue is how we despatch the people whose claims have been refused.
Those numbers however won't mae much of a dent on the overall figures!
So, instead of the empty boo immigrants, I'd like to know who you're kicking out and why, because funnily enough nobody, but nobody will be defending Albanian gangs etc. but to demonise whole swathes of people is just nonsensical. It's time that the boo immigration was told to put up about what it would actually do, or shut up!
Meanwhile, we have a new government where Starmer's speeches have emphasised positivity, looking forward, being a servant of the people... and we're banging on about this!
Nick
Administrator
Quick, move the goalposts and go on about something else.
Your words "If you're staying in this country illegally, either after your visa expires or your claim for asylum is refused, what you're not doing is claiming benefits!"
Now you want to define illegal.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
IMO that's more that the system is in place but its not being operated correctly. Which comes back in large part to austerity. We have a huge backlog and the longer people are here without their case being heard the more chance of them working illegally or just disappearing.
Not sure its an issue with the rules in place just a complete failure to have a working system.
Mucca Mad Boys
Well-Known Member
It’s all well and good saying that… How do you fund the spending required?
There’s a housing deficit of 4.3m and then apply that to roads, hospitals, schools and so on. There already exists a significant deficit and finding it by printing money is inflationary and that drives interest rate rises. Therefore, your next options are a) tax rises b) public spending cuts or c) both. The honest conversation as a country we’re not having is; immigration is ‘x’ and ‘y’ public expenditure is needed to be sustainable. Is their a net benefit of this?
There’s a few stories on this thread how interest rate rises to 5-6% have out them in financial stress. These rates were historically normal - it’s what my mum remortgaged at in 2007 or 2008.
Nick
Administrator
I agree. Process them quicker, if they meet requirements then start to integrate into society.
If they don't, get them back as soon as possible.
It's why I keep saying that an argument about "immigrants" needs context because on one hand people will say "NHS doctors" and others will say "men on boats" when there's plenty in between.
D
Deleted member 5849
Guest
Friend of mine spoke to someone waiting for a decision, they've been stuck in one room with their wife and two children for 18 months. They're a qualified petrochemical engineer but can't work until a decision is made (whenever that is) and find themselves stuck in limbo as a result.