Do you want to discuss boring politics? (40 Viewers)

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Not sure anyone could seriously argue with the last sentence and a half. I suspect QE is inflationary as well, which is what he is describing. Isn’t it?

The USA spend more on their military than the next half a dozen or so combined. Maybe instead of spending such an obscene amount on weapons they could use the money to transform healthcare and education for their own people.

 

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[fatso]

A long shot that achieved nothing and cost billions of pounds; great. You're also mixing up legal and illegal migration here.

Legal or illegal, makes very little difference, the total overall number is way too high compared to our infrastructure's ability to cope.

How many new hospitals, schools, GP surgeries, nurseries, old people's homes Prisons, etc are being built or even planned?

The reality is our population is outgrowing our ability to cope.

Schools are collapsing, the NHS is failing, our roads are crumbling, our Prisons are over crowded, we have far too little housing stock available, our levels of taxation are at record high levels while our national debt is becoming untenable.

AND STILL WE LET MORE IN.

it's fucking insane! STOP FFS

 

[wingy]

With a white feather.

It was actually Tony Blair who opened the floodgates on immigration.

The Tories were trying to stem the tide with their I'll conceived Rwander debacle, deals with the French, and the temporary housing (before the planned deportation) in the barge and ex RAF bases, hotels, etc etc.

Starmer has cancelled the Rwander operation with absolutely no alternative plan in place, and he's releasing all immigrants from holding stations and hotels and B&B accommodation into the general population.
Which is in effect a green light to all who wish to come here.

That's why he's given up on immigration.

And yes, he's managed to totally give up on the issue in 1 fucking month!!!

No that was Sunak's own goal wasn't it, guess there a legal body that didn't agree with it somehow!?

 

[wingy]

The USA spend more on their military than the next half a dozen or so combined. Maybe instead of spending such an obscene amount on weapons they could use the money to transform healthcare and education for their own people.

Yes some windfall that would be!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Legal or illegal, makes very little difference, the total overall number is way too high compared to our infrastructure's ability to cope.

How many new hospitals, schools, GP surgeries, nurseries, old people's homes Prisons, etc are being built or even planned?

The reality is our population is outgrowing our ability to cope.

Schools are collapsing, the NHS is failing, our roads are crumbling, our Prisons are over crowded, we have far too little housing stock available, our levels of taxation are at record high levels while our national debt is becoming untenable.

AND STILL WE LET MORE IN.

it's fucking insane! STOP FFS

Do you not see any connection between those observations and the Tories’ 14 years of government? Genuine question.

 

[MalcSB]

Do you not see any connection between those observations and the Tories’ 14 years of government? Genuine question.

There is also a connection with the last Labour government.

How is the current Labour government going to address the issue? Genuine question obviously,

 

[MalcSB]

No that was Sunak's own goal wasn't it, guess there a legal body that didn't agree with it somehow!?

If only we had Brexited
(a) promptly without all the mysteriously funded legal challenges to the result of a democratic vote
(b) completely, including telling the EU they could whistle for continued funding

 

[fatso]

Do you not see any connection between those observations and the Tories’ 14 years of government? Genuine question.

Yes, its a fucking shit show.

But continuously arguing over who's to blame isn't the answer.

The worrying thing is this new government has no plan or idea to deal with anything.

They are already showing alarming signs of being beholden to their traditional union pay masters.

 

[wingy]

If only we had Brexited
(a) promptly without all the mysteriously funded legal challenges to the result of a democratic vote
(b) completely, including telling the EU they could whistle for continued funding

That was also mysteriously funded and as I said it the time would to a war, not exploited by the Soviet's though, just like Ireland's trouble's coming from a mysterious source as well which I predicted!

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

There is also a connection with the last Labour government.

How is the current Labour government going to address the issue? Genuine question obviously,

A Labour government should be raising corporation tax and income tax on the top percentiles while providing tax relief for lower earners. The raised funds should be directed towards investment in infrastructure, education and the health system. It should also be looking at low cost, high impact policies like universal free school meals which carry multiple benefits and are aimed primarily at families. I would strongly support a VAT tax cut to at least the previous 17.5%.

Significant investment in making public sector working conditions more attractive will reduce our dependency on foreign labour which is in the national interest in any case. A stronger labour investment into education and training will in general lead to us having a more skilled domestic workforce better able to meet demands for labour and be more attractive for business investment while generally lifting more people out of poverty.

This version of Labour however is too scared of its own shadow, will tweak around the edges and then allow back in the Tories for another 15 years of managed decline.

 

[Grendel]

A Labour government should be raising corporation tax and income tax on the top percentiles while providing tax relief for lower earners. The raised funds should be directed towards investment in infrastructure, education and the health system. It should also be looking at low cost, high impact policies like universal free school meals which carry multiple benefits and are aimed primarily at families. I would strongly support a VAT tax cut to at least the previous 17.5%.

Significant investment in making public sector working conditions more attractive will reduce our dependency on foreign labour which is in the national interest in any case. A stronger labour investment into education and training will in general lead to us having a more skilled domestic workforce better able to meet demands for labour and be more attractive for business investment while generally lifting more people out of poverty.

This version of Labour however is too scared of its own shadow, will tweak around the edges and then allow back in the Tories for another 15 years of managed decline.

raising corporation tax achieves nothing

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yes, its a fucking shit show.

But continuously arguing over who's to blame isn't the answer.

The worrying thing is this new government has no plan or idea to deal with anything.

They are already showing alarming signs of being beholden to their traditional union pay masters.

I was with you until the ridiculous final sentence. Unions are actually just working people like you and me collectively trying to improve pay and conditions.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

raising corporation tax achieves nothing

Cool, let’s drop it to zero then

 

[shmmeee]

Bloody Blair!

 

[shmmeee]

The USA spend more on their military than the next half a dozen or so combined. Maybe instead of spending such an obscene amount on weapons they could use the money to transform healthcare and education for their own people.

Found out yesterday they don’t out braille on medicine. And they still have lead pipes and unsafe drinking water. Basically a third world country that’s won the lottery b

 

[wingy]

Found out yesterday they don’t out braille on medicine. And they still have lead pipes and unsafe drinking water. Basically a third world country that’s won the lottery b

So very nearly us really!
The doctrine being followed from 45 years back, that woman!🫣

 

[shmmeee]

So very nearly us really!

We are lottery winners who spend it all on hookers and now work the bins again.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Found out yesterday they don’t out braille on medicine. And they still have lead pipes and unsafe drinking water. Basically a third world country that’s won the lottery b

I saw a comment the other day that struck me:

‘General Motors used to build cars in Michigan, and Mexican drinking water wasn’t safe. Now General Motors builds cars in Mexico, and Michigan drinking water isn’t safe.’

They spend nearly 1 trillion USD on the military, but claim to be unable to fund a single payer healthcare system, or to put 15% of their budget to education.

 

[Sick Boy]

Legal or illegal, makes very little difference, the total overall number is way too high compared to our infrastructure's ability to cope.

How many new hospitals, schools, GP surgeries, nurseries, old people's homes Prisons, etc are being built or even planned?

The reality is our population is outgrowing our ability to cope.

Schools are collapsing, the NHS is failing, our roads are crumbling, our Prisons are over crowded, we have far too little housing stock available, our levels of taxation are at record high levels while our national debt is becoming untenable.

AND STILL WE LET MORE IN.

it's fucking insane! STOP FFS

And for some insane reason you’ve absolved the government that was in charge for the last 14 years and put the blame on one that’s been in power for 1.5 months.

 

[shmmeee]

I saw a comment the other day that struck me:

‘General Motors used to build cars in Michigan, and Mexican drinking water wasn’t safe. Now General Motors builds cars in Mexico, and Michigan drinking water isn’t safe.’

They spend nearly 1 trillion USD on the military, but claim to be unable to fund a single payer healthcare system, or to put 15% of their budget to education.

They should be smashing it but their ideology is destroying them and unlike Europe when the global economic sands shift they won’t have a legacy at all in the public realm.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

They should be smashing it but their ideology is destroying them and unlike Europe when the global economic sands shift they won’t have a legacy at all in the public realm.

It is still incredibly rich in natural resources and home to brilliant educational institutions. If Harris wins the election, and she and Walz got 4 terms, it could be FDR level transformative.

If Trump wins they’re in the bin.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We are lottery winners who spend it all on hookers and now work the bins again.

Excellent analogy

 

[shmmeee]

It is still incredibly rich in natural resources and home to brilliant educational institutions. If Harris wins the election, and she and Walz got 4 terms, it could be FDR level transformative.

If Trump wins they’re in the bin.

Yeah they’ll always have ridiculous geography that’s got no natural enemies and a fuck ton of resources.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Yeah they’ll always have ridiculous geography that’s got no natural enemies and a fuck ton of resources.

I keep telling my Canadian colleagues they need to sneak across into Montana and North Dakota and start smashing shit up.

 

[MalcSB]

A Labour government should be raising corporation tax and income tax on the top percentiles while providing tax relief for lower earners. The raised funds should be directed towards investment in infrastructure, education and the health system. It should also be looking at low cost, high impact policies like universal free school meals which carry multiple benefits and are aimed primarily at families. I would strongly support a VAT tax cut to at least the previous 17.5%.

Significant investment in making public sector working conditions more attractive will reduce our dependency on foreign labour which is in the national interest in any case. A stronger labour investment into education and training will in general lead to us having a more skilled domestic workforce better able to meet demands for labour and be more attractive for business investment while generally lifting more people out of poverty.

This version of Labour however is too scared of its own shadow, will tweak around the edges and then allow back in the Tories for another 15 years of managed decline.

Hard to disagree with much of what you say, but universal free school meals? Really? When the winter fuel allowance has just been means tested. As @shmmeee might say, I’m sure Elton John could afford his own children’s meals.

I you want to help families, why not sharing of tax allowances. Would certainly help single income families.

 

[MalcSB]

A

Bloody Blair!

View attachment 37847

At least find a graph that shows the whole of this century

 

[shmmeee]

A

At least find a graph that shows the whole of this century

Are we upset about immigration numbers in 1974 or 2024?

 

[shmmeee]

Hard to disagree with much of what you say, but universal free school meals? Really? When the winter fuel allowance has just been means tested. As @shmmeee might say, I’m sure Elton John could afford his own children’s meals.

I you want to help families, why not sharing of tax allowances. Would certainly help single income families.

The recipient of FSM is a child, not an adult.

 

[MalcSB]

Are we upset about immigration numbers in 1974 or 2024?

I said this century. UK population was flat between 1970 and 1985 (ish).

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

Hard to disagree with much of what you say, but universal free school meals? Really? When the winter fuel allowance has just been means tested. As @shmmeee might say, I’m sure Elton John could afford his own children’s meals.

I you want to help families, why not sharing of tax allowances. Would certainly help single income families.

You say that like I don’t also support universal help for pensioners with their energy bills. There are several benefits of universality over means testing, including cutting out beauracracy and guaranteeing that everyone who needs a service has access. If you cover two thirds of the meals that a child needs, that’s a huge help to all families and I would rather a few people get access who don’t strictly need it, than have people need it but miss out.

That’s also ignoring the clear benefits of giving our children better nutrition so they can do better at school and be a bit healthier in the process. Social stigma for being an FSM kid is also removed.

VAT is the tax cut I would really like to see separate to that and something that helps businesses and individuals alike.

 

[shmmeee]

I said this century. UK population was flat between 1970 and 1985 (ish).

That’s not a good thing really. We had people leaving to get work.

The recent massive increase in numbers is mostly down to decisions taken by the Tory government. Be it asylum for Ukrainians and Hong Kongers or hundreds of thousands of Nigerians and Indians in the care sector and replacing EU students in the education sector.

Waffling on about too many Polish people in the early 2000s is a bit random now and snacks of desperation to avoid what the party you support did in recent history.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

That’s not a good thing really. We had people leaving to get work.

The recent massive increase in numbers is mostly down to decisions taken by the Tory government. Be it asylum for Ukrainians and Hong Kongers or hundreds of thousands of Nigerians and Indians in the care sector and replacing EU students in the education sector.

Waffling on about too many Polish people in the early 2000s is a bit random now and snacks of desperation to avoid what the party you support did in recent history.

Yep huge benefits from many communities

 

[fatso]

And for some insane reason you’ve absolved the government that was in charge for the last 14 years and put the blame on one that’s been in power for 1.5 months.

Ffs mate get a fucking grip, go and read some of my posts above before talking utter bollocks

Go and read my post no, 42,464 on this very topic. (Just 1 example)

 

[fatso]

Yep huge benefits from many communities

The benefits are legitimate of course, we do need measured immigration. But when the numbers swamp the infrastructure that's there to support ALL communities, it becomes a major problem.

That's where we're at now, but the conversations that need to be had can't go ahead when everyone is so concerned at who's to blame rather than addressing the actual issue.

Before we can even hope to deal with our problems, we have to first accept that there is a problem, rather than calling people racists or bigots or saying it's this or that parties problem.

As a nation we're obsessed with fighting each other rather than tackling our issues together.

 

[Brighton Sky Blue]

The benefits are legitimate of course, we do need measured immigration. But when the numbers swamp the infrastructure that's there to support ALL communities, it becomes a major problem.

That's where we're at now, but the conversations that need to be had can't go ahead when everyone is so concerned at who's to blame rather than addressing the actual issue.

Before we can even hope to deal with our problems, we have to first accept that there is a problem, rather than calling people racists or bigots or saying it's this or that parties problem.

As a nation we're obsessed with fighting each other rather than tackling our issues together.

Those numbers are coming in because we can’t or won’t get British people to do certain jobs and because people want to come here to study.

Your talk of infighting when also going on about ‘union paymasters’ is a bit ironic. Where do unions get their money from? Working people.