Do you want to discuss boring politics? (56 Viewers)

[MalcSB]

Stop sending nearly £12 billion abroad to “fight global warming”, (as if it will get spent on that). That’s over half the “black hole” created by dropping the Ming vase. Stop the “chicken feed” £3billion illegal immigrant accommodation costs, that’s two thirds.

 

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[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Pensioners are a damn sight easier target than, say, train drivers.

Possibly. But you've picked a small group that have good pay due to a hardline union. Ask many other sectors, unionised or otherwise, if they have as good a deal as pensioners and the answer is no.

I could say pensioners are an easier target than billionaires and friends of ministers with government contracts. Doesn't mean pensioners aren't still a group that in the grand scheme of things get a reasonably decent deal.

 

[shmmeee]

They'll play the never never through the entire parliament before making some promises during the next election campaign

Then they’ll get voted out.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

How on earth does the government think restricting the supply of money into the private sector is going to support 'growth'? I just do not get it.

It's all driven by the household budget analogy, but even if you were operating on 'household budget' terms many of the decisions are just nonsensical.

It's incredible. Their entire plan was based on growth, but they're going to do absolutely nothing to help achieve that growth If anything they'll hinder it.

It's Tory economic policy that's failed us dismally and if they continue on this route it's going to get worse.

 

[fernandopartridge]

It's incredible. Their entire plan was based on growth, but they're going to do absolutely nothing to help achieve that growth If anything they'll hinder it.

It's Tory economic policy that's failed us dismally and if they continue on this route it's going to get worse.

I think they just want another private credit boom, they've promised to reduce the amount of financial services regulation so I'm assuming that is aimed at making it easier for banks to sell their 'products'

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

I can only imagine that peoples lived experiences would be worse with bad general economic indicators. We will shortly see whether that proves correct.

Economic indicators are largely nonsense. They are decided by those doing well out of the current situation and so choose those that paint things in a good light.

For instance, we have a big fixation with economic growth but you can have an economy showing large growth yet the vast majority of people have less money overall, both in actual and real terms. In fact that's pretty much what we have had for over a decade. But they don't put up stuff like median and modal wages because it paints a shit story, even though they would be far more useful as indicators.

 

[shmmeee]

Stop sending nearly £12 billion abroad to “fight global warming”, (as if it will get spent on that). That’s over half the “black hole” created by dropping the Ming vase. Stop the “chicken feed” £3billion illegal immigrant accommodation costs, that’s two thirds.

You keep over stating one off costs. The £12bn was from 2019-2025 and has mostly been spent less than half is still to be spent and is an international commitment. You’ve already had it explained why £3bn isn’t a figure in perpetuity.

 

[shmmeee]

Economic indicators are largely nonsense. They are decided by those doing well out of the current situation and so choose those that paint things in a good light.

For instance, we have a big fixation with economic growth but you can have an economy showing large growth yet the vast majority of people have less money overall, both in actual and real terms. In fact that's pretty much what we have had for over a decade. But they don't put up stuff like median and modal wages because it paints a shit story, even though they would be far more useful as indicators.

The absolutely so put up median wages. It’s the standard way to measure wages.

Employee earnings in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Measures of employee earnings, using data from the Annual Survey for Hours and Earnings (ASHE).

www.ons.gov.uk

Most people accept GDP per capita at least removes the slight of hand of importing a bunch of people to boost GDP. The problem is absolutely there’s been not GDP per capita growth for 16 years:

 

[Evo1883]

Then they’ll get voted out.

Can't see them getting 2 terms anyway with chief dick chops at the helm

 

[shmmeee]

Can't see them getting 2 terms anyway with chief dick chops at the helm

Depends on if he delivers. Nothing happening now will impact the next election. We know this because we had literal riots and constant bad news at the start of the Tory government and they got an increased vote at the next one.

 

[Evo1883]

Such an unlikeable bloke isn't he

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The absolutely so put up median wages. It’s the standard way to measure wages.

Employee earnings in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Measures of employee earnings, using data from the Annual Survey for Hours and Earnings (ASHE).

www.ons.gov.uk

Most people accept GDP per capita at least removes the slight of hand of importing a bunch of people to boost GDP. The problem is absolutely there’s been not GDP per capita growth for 16 years:

View attachment 38046

But you don't see that much of it in the media. Yet every time growth figures are announced it's everywhere.

 

[shmmeee]

But you don't see that much of it in the media. Yet every time growth figures are announced it's everywhere.

The media is terrible for just taking the latest figures and making a story off them instead of looking long term. We have had negative growth since 2008. That’s the story. Problem is it’s the story is almost every western nation. And no one knows what to do about it or what the Yanks have done to avoid it.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

The media is terrible for just taking the latest figures and making a story off them instead of looking long term. We have had negative growth since 2008. That’s the story. Problem is it’s the story is almost every western nation. And no one knows what to do about it or what the Yanks have done to avoid it.

There's truth in that. However it also ignores the fact that a large amount of growth can be attributed to the top few wealthy %.
Would be more interesting looking at growth (and other factors) per quartile or decile.

 

[MalcSB]

You keep over stating one off costs. The £12bn was from 2019-2025 and has mostly been spent less than half is still to be spent and is an international commitment. You’ve already had it explained why £3bn isn’t a figure in perpetuity.

You have said it isn’t a figure in perpetuity, I have seen no action taken to reduce illegal immigration or repatriate illegal immigrants.

TBH I think the point I am trying to make is that the shit show they are claiming is/ will be actually all about choices they have or could make.

 

[shmmeee]

There's truth in that. However it also ignores the fact that a large amount of growth can be attributed to the top few wealthy %.
Would be more interesting looking at growth (and other factors) per quartile or decile.

I think there’s an input and an output problem. At the front end workers don’t earn enough because we aren’t productive enough. At the back end accumulated wealth isn’t taxed well enough to either directly improve productivity with govt spending or encourage investment in the right areas.

And I include small amounts of wealth too. So much locked up in pensions and housing because there’s nothing else with a decent return.

 

[shmmeee]

You have said it isn’t a figure in perpetuity, I have seen no action taken to reduce illegal immigration or repatriate illegal immigrants.

TBH I think the point I am trying to make is that the shit show they are claiming is/ will be actually all about choices they have or could make.

Then you aren’t looking. We literally just did the biggest deportation in history to Brazil. The cost is because the Tories just stopped processing people so they piled up. If you want to reduce illegals immigration you kinda have to be able to tell if someone is illegal.

 

[MalcSB]

The absolutely so put up median wages. It’s the standard way to measure wages.

Employee earnings in the UK - Office for National Statistics

Measures of employee earnings, using data from the Annual Survey for Hours and Earnings (ASHE).

www.ons.gov.uk

Most people accept GDP per capita at least removes the slight of hand of importing a bunch of people to boost GDP. The problem is absolutely there’s been not GDP per capita growth for 16 years:

View attachment 38046

Does importing people improve boost GDP or suppress it?

 

[MalcSB]

Then you aren’t looking. We literally just did the biggest deportation in history to Brazil. The cost is because the Tories just stopped processing people so they piled up. If you want to reduce illegals immigration you kinda have to be able to tell if someone is illegal.

Does fleeing war torn France help with identification?

 

[MalcSB]

I think there’s an input and an output problem. At the front end workers don’t earn enough because we aren’t productive enough. At the back end accumulated wealth isn’t taxed well enough to either directly improve productivity with govt spending or encourage investment in the right areas.

And I include small amounts of wealth too. So much locked up in pensions and housing because there’s nothing else with a decent return.

I don’t think the majority of people buy a house primarily to make a return, they do so to have somewhere to live.

 

[shmmeee]

Does importing people improve boost GDP or suppress it?

It always boosts GDP, another person is some small amount more economic activity. The profile has shifted since Brexit IIRC, some immigrants produce below the average pulling per capita down, some don’t. Mostly Europeans and Asians good, Africans and Middle East bad in simple terms.

But immigration didn’t start in 2008 and doesn’t explain the differences with the US. Just like generic cultural/geopolitical arguments from the Yanks about Europoors don’t either. There was some obvious difference between how the US came out of the GFC and how everyone else did that accounts for the difference.

 

[shmmeee]

Does fleeing war torn France count?

Are we pretending we don’t know how international asylum works again? Good luck arguing with every other country that because you’re not bordering a nation you shouldn’t take any of its refugees.

 

[MalcSB]

Are we pretending we don’t know how international asylum works again? Good luck arguing with every other country that because you’re not bordering a nation you shouldn’t take any of its refugees.

Are people arriving by boat legal immigrants then? If so, why not just redirect an Isle of Wight ferry twice a week?

 

[fernandopartridge]

The media is terrible for just taking the latest figures and making a story off them instead of looking long term. We have had negative growth since 2008. That’s the story. Problem is it’s the story is almost every western nation. And no one knows what to do about it or what the Yanks have done to avoid it.

The whole of western Europe has adopted the same austerity philosophy

 

[shmmeee]

Are people arriving by boat legal immigrants then? If so, why not just redirect an aisle of Wight ferry twice a week?

Why not indeed? Yes it’s legal to enter a country by any means when seeking asylum.

 

[shmmeee]

The whole of western Europe has adopted the same austerity philosophy

This is my best guess too.

 

[MalcSB]

Why not indeed? Yes it’s legal to enter a country by any means when seeking asylum.

Great. We can stop the boats tomorrow.

 

[Sick Boy]

Unbelievable - Truss considered scrapping NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims

 

[fernandopartridge]

Unbelievable - Truss considered scrapping NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims

Don't show Rachel Reeves

 

[wingy]

Does importing people improve boost GDP or suppress it?

Good question, not party political,, Give him a chance though!

I don’t think the majority of people buy a house primarily to make a return, they do so to have somewhere to live.

Nah sorry!

 

[wingy]

Don't show Rachel Reeves

We are talking the same Liz truss who got mocked for what Sshhhmmmeee advocating but a different outcome I guess!

 

[CCFCSteve]

Unbelievable - Truss considered scrapping NHS cancer treatment after crashing economy, book claims

Absolute fruit loop ! Frightening

 

[shmmeee]

I don’t think the majority of people buy a house primarily to make a return, they do so to have somewhere to live.

Id argue those who care so much about house prices do so because they use it as an investment vehicle and a chance to build wealth. Also the number of scummy BTL landlords it attracts. Lots of people store their wealth in housing.

 

[shmmeee]

We are talking the same Liz truss who got mocked for what Sshhhmmmeee advocating but a different outcome I guess!

hey now!

im advocating productivity improvements through housing and transport policy, not tax cuts for all and hope for the best!

 

[chiefdave]

For instance, we have a big fixation with economic growth but you can have an economy showing large growth yet the vast majority of people have less money overall, both in actual and real terms. In fact that's pretty much what we have had for over a decade.

I’m in Copenhagen at the moment and had pretty much this conversation with some locals last night (yes alcohol was involved!) talking about how quality of life seems so much better here than at home.

One of the locals said we’re obsessed with never ending growth, the stock market etc, they just want to be happy and have a nice life. He said we live to work, they work to live. Doubt that’s his own line but seems very true.

Was near some office blocks today at about 4:45 and they were emptying out, by 5 they were closed off. People were sitting by the canal having beers, or even diving in which you def wouldn’t do at home.

It’s coming up for 8:45 now and a lot of people are still out having a good time. Zero hint of any trouble either.

When I come to places like this it just makes me think we’re got it very very wrong at home