Do you want to discuss boring politics? (14 Viewers)
- Thread starter mrtrench
- Start date
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Is the government dependent on the repayment of student loans to fund its ongoing spending obligations?
The outstanding balance is now nearly £250bn, it is clearly not that important that it is collected so why bother?
The outstanding balance is now nearly £250bn, it is clearly not that important that it is collected so why bother?
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
My student loan got sold on by the last government to a debt collection company who totally changed the terms, which apparently their purchase agreement with the government allowed them to do. Was a fucking nightmare getting it all sorted.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Or there are too many graduates
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
There's definitely too many graduates. But undergraduate degrees are more about making money than providing a quality, and useful, education these days.
And if we scaled that back to what we actually needed it would be a shock to the economy that nobody will be willing to risk.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
The projection is only 27% of loan debt will be paid off
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
I’m really not sure what graduates are complaining about.
The analysis by Universities UK of data that tracks earnings from the age of 17 to 31 shows most graduates rapidly catch-up with and overtake non-graduates, despite having fewer years in the labour market, and this difference is sustained throughout their careers. The salary difference increases throughout their careers, even after the costs of studying – and higher taxes – are factored in. Graduates earn more than non-graduates across all regions of the country, where our universities are located. This regional perspective helps take into account local labour markets.
Article here
The analysis by Universities UK of data that tracks earnings from the age of 17 to 31 shows most graduates rapidly catch-up with and overtake non-graduates, despite having fewer years in the labour market, and this difference is sustained throughout their careers. The salary difference increases throughout their careers, even after the costs of studying – and higher taxes – are factored in. Graduates earn more than non-graduates across all regions of the country, where our universities are located. This regional perspective helps take into account local labour markets.
Article here
Grendel
Well-Known Member
Though that is old news
This has changed with the introduction of Plan 5 loans. Although the interest rates on these loans are lower than for Plan 2, repayments start from a lower income level and the loans are written off after 40 years, not 30. As a result, those government predictions suggest that 61% of students who started university in 2023/24 with Plan 5 loans will repay in full.
Either way, the amount you repay is defined by what you earn. Once you graduate, if you are earning over the threshold, you will repay 9% of that income.
Will I ever pay off my loan?
Until recently, the answer to this question was 'probably not'. Those who took out Plan 2 student loans will see their loans written off after 30 years, and the level at which repayments are set means that most will not have completely paid off their loans by that time. Government predictions suggest that only 27% of students who started university in 2022/23 with Plan 2 student loans will completely repay their loans.This has changed with the introduction of Plan 5 loans. Although the interest rates on these loans are lower than for Plan 2, repayments start from a lower income level and the loans are written off after 40 years, not 30. As a result, those government predictions suggest that 61% of students who started university in 2023/24 with Plan 5 loans will repay in full.
Either way, the amount you repay is defined by what you earn. Once you graduate, if you are earning over the threshold, you will repay 9% of that income.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
In my case it’s because the going rate for a PhD stipend is now sub minimum wage.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
If that is the case unless there are huge salary benefits going forward why would anyone do it?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
From the article dated 1/8/24 I posted earlier
- Graduates overtake those who chose not to go university within just a few years, earning at least 20% more once they are in their mid-20s. By age 31, graduates typically earn 37% more, and the gap is slightly higher (38%) for those from economically deprived areas
- Graduate earnings increase at a faster rate than those of non graduates. Between the ages of 23 and 31 average earnings grow by 72% for graduates compared to 31% for non graduates. For those who were previously on Free School Meals average graduate earnings growth is 75% compared to 26% for non graduates.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Wow that’s something that needs to be addressed
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Correct. Graduates need to be applying for jobs which pay more than minimum wage. See the post immediately before yours.
That's assuming there are loads of jobs where a BA in Taylor Swift lyrics are an essential requirement.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Don’t spend the refund all at once.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Got four pints of beer I’ve had my eye on.
fernandopartridge
Well-Known Member
Here's an idea, don't let a massively conflicted Ofsted set the terms of the future inspection regime
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
Sent from my Pixel 7 using Tapatalk
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
I like how someone has clearly been passed a message that “one word grading system will need to be changed” and immediately thought the same but with two words might help.
Sky Blue Pete
Well-Known Member
Been reading lots of Alison Liebling and her work measuring the quality of prison life and saw her speak in person in the week
What she wanted was a measure that could be used to empiracally improve outcomes what hmpps wanted was a way to rank performance
Ofsted should stick to identifying things to improve and help schools to do it
What she wanted was a measure that could be used to empiracally improve outcomes what hmpps wanted was a way to rank performance
Ofsted should stick to identifying things to improve and help schools to do it
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
This is the fundamental issue. Jobs that 'require degrees' when in actual fact they just need a better hiring system.
Get rid of pointless degrees, shrink the size of universities and their offerings, and actually have a higher education system that's worthwhile rather than saddling young people with debts.
Apprenticeship's are the way forward for most young people
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Most apprenticeships are garbage though. Just cheap labour and money making for shit “educational providers”. The VfM for uni is way higher. Just give people jobs. Not everything needs a course.
Grendel
Well-Known Member
I have two apprentices who now earn well above average wage and one who has studied while at work.
For many people they can easily be a better route to skills and full time employment
SBAndy
Well-Known Member
The key really is the skill level of the job and the level of education provided alongside.
I’ve just stuck “apprentice” in Indeed and one of the roles is a mobile phone repair apprenticeship.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
I’ve got an apprenticeship, I know what a good one is. I’m still not convinced they’re massively better than just giving people a job.
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Sandwich artist.
Even nursing and computer programming shouldn’t require a degree. Why we gatekeep jobs I don’t know.
Nick
Administrator
What degrees actually are is a filter like GCSEs that say “this person is fairly smart and can work hard on things if needed”. Then you’ve got to ask if we need such a filter why the cost is on the smartest and hardest working
Nothing worse than a lot of IT graduates I've had to work with. 90% of them have been good at the theory and what the books say but can't really think on their feet.
The last one I worked with would spend hours researching a topic to solve a ticket and trying to learn the history of the software, why, who owns it etc when he should have just fixed it and moved on to the next one.
I wasn't ever an apprentice as such but got a job at the bottom on a help desk when I was 17. After a year or so I was teaching the new graduates who came in
shmmeee
Well-Known Member
Nothing worse than a lot of IT graduates I've had to work with. 90% of them have been good at the theory and what the books say but can't really think on their feet.
The last one I worked with would spend hours researching a topic to solve a ticket and trying to learn the history of the software, why, who owns it etc when he should have just fixed it and moved on to the next one.
I wasn't ever an apprentice as such but got a job at the bottom on a help desk when I was 17. After a year or so I was teaching the new graduates who came in
IT is not a subject that needs degree level knowledge. Most coding isn’t. If I’m architecting systems or building ML models from scratch or something fair enough, but centring a DIV doesn’t need a three year course. Turn it off and on again certainly isn’t. Most time and money would be better spent on Coursera or Udemy.
chiefdave
Well-Known Member
I did computer science at a time where that was the only degree available on IT. Didn’t touch a computer until year 3, everything before that was theory
Would have been far better off putting people into jobs and giving them training for what they were actually doing
Dont think I’ve ever used anything I learned on my degree
We seem to be behind the curve with what we push people to study. Coding was a recent one where you were basically on the promise of a well paid job for life but we’re already seeing salaries drop as the market is flooded and automation becomes more common
Cyber Security is going the same way, seeing recruiters moaning that they’re being flooded with applications from people with degrees but zero experience
Would have been far better off putting people into jobs and giving them training for what they were actually doing
Dont think I’ve ever used anything I learned on my degree
We seem to be behind the curve with what we push people to study. Coding was a recent one where you were basically on the promise of a well paid job for life but we’re already seeing salaries drop as the market is flooded and automation becomes more common
Cyber Security is going the same way, seeing recruiters moaning that they’re being flooded with applications from people with degrees but zero experience
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Rachel Reeves Changes Online CV After "Economist" Myth Exposed – The Daily Sceptic
Chancellor Rachel Reeves has been caught changing her online CV after the claim that she worked as an "economist" at the Bank of Scotland was exposed as untrue.
dailysceptic.org
There is just so much Labour shit around now, I can hardly keep up with it.
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Starmer won’t tell us how to live our lives, hoorah!
Except we can’t have gas boilers, must have EVs, can’t eat meat, must accept rationing of electricity (I.e. blackouts.)
All to pursue an ineffectual dash for net zero whilst the leaders of the most polluting nations laugh their head off at the UK.
And was 470 officials at the recent COP really necessary?
Except we can’t have gas boilers, must have EVs, can’t eat meat, must accept rationing of electricity (I.e. blackouts.)
All to pursue an ineffectual dash for net zero whilst the leaders of the most polluting nations laugh their head off at the UK.
And was 470 officials at the recent COP really necessary?
MalcSB
Well-Known Member
Starmer supports wasting police resources on non crime hate incidents. In the meantime, good luck with gett8ng your house burglary investigated.
I thought police would have been good with clues. The clue here is in the “non crime” categorisation.
In the meantime, we await the Manchester Airport and labour councillors charges and trials respectively.
I thought police would have been good with clues. The clue here is in the “non crime” categorisation.
In the meantime, we await the Manchester Airport and labour councillors charges and trials respectively.
Brighton Sky Blue
Well-Known Member
It does take two to tango considering which government presided over big cuts to policing. The good news is that at any time this government can wake up and try to do something transformative with the huge majority it's got.
All I see happening at the next election is Starmer going 'ah, but we got the deficit down!' as Farage walks into No. 10.
skybluegod
Well-Known Member
What degrees actually are is a filter like GCSEs that say “this person is fairly smart and can work hard on things if needed”. Then you’ve got to ask if we need such a filter why the cost is on the smartest and hardest working
It used to be that. It no longer is. You can go to uni with pretty much any education or background, you can do a course that is about 5 hours a week and come out with a degree.
I don't look at people that to to uni now and say okay you must have something about you, if anything more and more people are questioning why?