Do you want to discuss boring politics? (35 Viewers)

[SBT]

One month of GDP numbers showing a m-o-m movement of one basis point in either direction simply doesn’t tell you anything about an economy’s long term fortunes. It’ll probably be revised the other way next month and won’t even be a footnote in the next news cycle.

 

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[shmmeee]

The point is that disposable income is at best flat lining and is projected to continue to do so. I don't necessarily expect that Labour is to blame for the economy not growing, but disposable income is not expected to grow as a result of their proposed budget so where are they expecting growth to come from?

What would GDP look like without hygiene items like utilities and rent/mortgages?

GDP is shit. But it’s shit for reasons that are structural and have been the case for 30-50 years. The main growth driver Labour plan on is planning reform. Which they haven’t done yet. Getting excited or distraught over basically rounding errors around the 0% growth we’ve had since 2008 is a bit silly.

 

[MalcSB]

We aren’t in recession. That requires two consecutive quarters of negative growth and we have only had two consecutive months.

It is disappointing though and with the anti-growth effect of the Budget yet to work through things are likely to get worse before they get better.

sounds like you dont think Reeves has anything up her sleeves to reverse the decline. And abert recession.

 

[wingy]

There’s more trees!

I believe in green middles, street trees, parks, gardens, etc. I’m not convinced of the ecological benefit of a farmers field or quarry or whatever over that particularly. I’d much rather we insisted on building developments with green space built in that people can actually use without driving to it and that is respectful of nature. I just think this sort of thing should be in a transparent and democratically accountable form that is easy for developers to work to, not a secret meeting of OAPs with esoteric design and political beliefs.

We have to move to a different method of build, there are only 0.2 of the population are bricklayers, start the revolution and get on kit houses, and some billionaire to get the land and services provided, and then finish DIY style at your leisure!

 

[shmmeee]

We have to move to a different method of build, there are only 0.2 of the population are bricklayers, start the revolution and get on kit houses, and some billionaire to get the land and services provided, and then finish DIY style at your leisure!

Seem to have a real problem getting people into the trades for some reason cos everyone I know says you should get a trade. Some minor hope for automation or factory build but I think just making building more predictable will help a lot. Not as much as rejoining the single market for people would but hey ho.

 

[MalcSB]

Need to renationalise water companies. Asap.

 

[Sky_Blue_Dreamer]

Do you also like fake grass and concrete back garden out of interest?

I don’t see “cleaner” as better. Hospitals are clean, I wouldn’t want to live in one.

No, I don't like fake grass or concrete back gardens.

I love trees and nature. I've dug up most of my front and back gardens to put plants in. I want more green spaces in urban areas and connected green and blue corridors.

But the point is that I put a long list of problems that trees on residential roads caused and so far the counterargument seems to be they 'look nice'. Fair enough, but I don't think that outweighs the many, many negatives. And although someone posted about that being a maintenance thing 1. I don't think that is the case with every single issue and 2. in reality that level of maintenance is never happening and is only likely to get worse.

As I said, tell homeowners to plant hedges and small trees on their properties instead.

 

[StrettoBoy]

sounds like you dont think Reeves has anything up her sleeves to reverse the decline. And abert recession.

I don’t, although obviously I hope I’m wrong.

I’m not convinced that boosting construction by relaxing planning laws is the way forward because we don’t have enough skilled workers.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

I don’t, although obviously I hope I’m wrong.

I’m not convinced that boosting construction by relaxing planning laws is the way forward because we don’t have enough skilled workers.

Under 30’s from the eu

 

[MalcSB]

I think this is labour trying to take back control of the narrative

 

[MalcSB]

Under 30’s from the eu

How many of the new houses will they occupy.how many of th additional NHsss appointments to be offered will they take what will th overall impact on nhs waiting lists be?

 

[fernandopartridge]

I think Reeves is awful but she can't be blamed particularly for both quarters. Until she realises that restoring household spending power is the aim, not vague GDP growth she'll get nowhere .

 

[fernandopartridge]

Planning reform isn't the magic bullet. It's almost like being in the early 2010s again as the coalition said much the same.

Planning reform really means giving housebuilders greater rights to build without condition(s), it might mean a greater supply of houses in the medium term but that's only going to be at levels the cartel of housebuilders will bear. I'm struggling a little to understand why it's the magic bullet. Explain shmmeee.

 

[shmmeee]

Planning reform isn't the magic bullet. It's almost like being in the early 2010s again as the coalition said much the same.

Planning reform really means giving housebuilders greater rights to build without condition(s), it might mean a greater supply of houses in the medium term but that's only going to be at levels the cartel of housebuilders will bear. I'm struggling a little to understand why it's the magic bullet. Explain shmmeee.

The house builders aren’t cartels. We’ve been through this before. By far the biggest break on competition in housing developers is the planning system with only the big boys having the cash and connections to reliably get things through.

It’s not a silver bullet but it is a prerequisite. If you want growth it’s mostly about removing barriers to people who already want to develop/invest.

Forget housing. We won’t be able to build any more transport or power infrastructure is we don’t fix it. And frankly the idea that the current planning system is producing well built aesthetically pleasing buildings on time and at cost is a nonsense.

The other side for me is trade and regulation on tech. The fact we’ve regulated like the EU on AI is worrying. I’d like to see energy prices down, but I don’t think we’re going to reindustrialise any time soon. Need to improve Birmingham and Manchester and build houses in London to create thriving service sectors. Can’t do that without planning reform.

Im biased but we are world leaders in many tech areas and what holds us back is the startup ecosystem and particularly access to capital. Sadly this means sucking up to people with capital like the Yanks do, or huge state investment like the Chinese do.

 

[shmmeee]

I’ll be honest im increasingly looking n the belief that the UKs major problem is its filled with people who moan about any action whatsoever on anything. And it’s made us stagnant and poor. I’m at the point where I just want a government to do anything and then at least we can see instead of constantly shooting everything down and demanding it’s watered down to nothing. I’d have even taken Boris’ vision. Any vision is better than what we’ve got now. It’s always “this will never work so let’s keep doing the thing we know 100% isn’t working”

 

[Como]

The planners did more damage than the luftwaffe

 

[Grendel]

One thing I wasn’t aware of was the IHT on pension pots doesn’t supersede the rules on income tax for discretionary funds.

I saw my pension advisor yesterday and he seems to think Reeves couldn’t be aware of the consequence which potentially is that 90% of any money left on death will be swallowed by the state.

The policy will be reversed or pension funds will end up purchasing property as CGT consequence is minor

 

[shmmeee]

The planners did more damage than the luftwaffe

This ditsty shit for example. Pathetic attitude that leads to poverty.

 

[Mcbean]

They talk of building on greenfield - we have building around here - they have no infrastructure or services so the small
Villages are overrun - medical and dental appointments are a joke - one estate has nothing so they have had to construct a double width pathway to the nearest shop ( only got the money as it’s a cycle way as well ) - it’s about a mile - the developers are just taking the piss - there are no jobs here wtf

 

[shmmeee]

They talk of building on greenfield - we have building around here - they have no infrastructure or services so the small
Villages are overrun - medical and dental appointments are a joke - one estate has nothing so they have had to construct a double width pathway to the nearest shop ( only got the money as it’s a cycle way as well ) - it’s about a mile - the developers are just taking the piss - there are no jobs here wtf

This is the real issue. We should be building communities not estates. Too many places without even a corner shop.

The answer of course is to liberalise planning. People build wherever they can because they can’t build where it’s needed. And government can’t build infrastructure as it’s so expensive to try. London is ridiculously low density for an international city and nowhere near as spread out as it should be.

Large new conurbations should be whole new towns with centres and high streets and all the rest.

 

[shmmeee]

You really can’t complain that stuff under the current planning system doesn’t work, and imply that stuff before we had it does (TCA only came in post war, most stuff wasn’t built under it), then say we don’t need change.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

Pathetic.

'14 years' is about all you've got.

He's come into power and some how making things even worse. The country is fucked and going down hill quicker than anything you've ever seen.

Absolute ill informed rubbish... they have inherited a complete fiasco from Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Main problem is big corrupt business not paying their way. Whether Kier targets those or not guess we'll find out whether he is genuine Labour or Tory Lite. Like Lampard ( but infinitely more complex) you have to give any Government 2 years to settle and start to make a difference. I'm not swallowing the Tory & Unionist propaganda that the Country's on its knees. Anyway didnt I hear Labour have just just sent back way more illegal immigrants than Tory&Unionists did ....thought you'd be dancing in the streets of Cov over this?

 

[shmmeee]

Pathetic.

'14 years' is about all you've got.

He's come into power and some how making things even worse. The country is fucked and going down hill quicker than anything you've ever seen.

Absolute hysterical nonsense.

 

[shmmeee]

Absolute ill informed rubbish... they have inherited a complete fiasco from Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Main problem is big corrupt business not paying their way. Whether Kier targets those or not guess we'll find out whether he is genuine Labour or Tory Lite. Like Lampard ( but infinitely more complex) you have to give any Government 2 years to settle and start to make a difference. I'm not swallowing the Tory & Unionist propaganda that the Country's on its knees. Anyway didnt I hear Labour have just just sent back way more illegal immigrants than Tory&Unionists did ....thought you'd be dancing in the streets of Cov over this?

Someone on Twitter told him it’s 1984 all over again and now he’s angry cos he won’t look out the window.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

This is the real issue. We should be building communities not estates. Too many places without even a corner shop.

The answer of course is to liberalise planning. People build wherever they can because they can’t build where it’s needed. And government can’t build infrastructure as it’s so expensive to try. London is ridiculously low density for an international city and nowhere near as spread out as it should be.

Large new conurbations should be whole new towns with centres and high streets and all the rest.

Completely agree, a few taking shape here in Kent but it's a long and slow process. Ive been working on one for 15 years in it's masterplanning and inception and only 400 hones built out of 6000. Thats mainly thanks to land owner/housing developer who is out of their depth and trying to wriggle out of paying for much needed infrastructure.
Labour are going hard on local government reorganisation by looks of it today. Non unitary Authorities likely to have to merge.

 

[shmmeee]

Completely agree, a few taking shape here in Kent but it's a long and slow process. Ive been working on one for 15 years in it's masterplanning and inception and only 400 hones built out of 6000. Thats mainly thanks to land owner/housing developer who is out of their depth and trying to wriggle out of paying for much needed infrastructure.
Labour are going hard on local government reorganisation by looks of it today. Non unitary Authorities likely to have to merge.

It means you just can’t do things. How many city centre projects have failed in Coventry because the economic circumstances changed from inception to delivery? Belgrade Plaza, Friargate, CCS just off the top of my head. Spent years in pointless planning. Same as that derelict site by the ring road or a million other things. These could have been jobs then homes and businesses, instead they were nothing.

And it’s a democratic deficit. Old wealthy people who already live in these areas have the time and inclination to complain, younger people trying to move in have no voice to support. It’s not even direct democracy it’s something worse and more random.

People are terrible at this sort of macro level planning in their area. We’ve tried it for 70 years and it’s been an unmitigated disaster with ugly shit buildings still being built and infrastructure still not happening.

For me have an open democratic process that sets clear guidelines and presumes consent for anything within those guidelines. If you want to ensure every house is built in the style of a hobbit hole and all cycle lanes are banned then campaign openly on that and get elected on it, don’t organise whisper campaigns and socials for OAPs and get it cancelled with threats to local politicians. That’s mob level shit.

 

[SkyBlueCharlie9]

No, I don't like fake grass or concrete back gardens.

I love trees and nature. I've dug up most of my front and back gardens to put plants in. I want more green spaces in urban areas and connected green and blue corridors.

But the point is that I put a long list of problems that trees on residential roads caused and so far the counterargument seems to be they 'look nice'. Fair enough, but I don't think that outweighs the many, many negatives. And although someone posted about that being a maintenance thing 1. I don't think that is the case with every single issue and 2. in reality that level of maintenance is never happening and is only likely to get worse.

As I said, tell homeowners to plant hedges and small trees on their properties instead.

Trees give us oxygen, clean the air, capture and slow down rainfall run off, provide shade on hot days, provide shelter from high winds , improve biodiversity for birds and insects, and evidence shows they can raise property values and marketability of homes along leafy streets and where there is a view of a well treed green space. They can improve mental health of people as trees are valued and loved by many. If trees have good tree pit infrastucure for root/soil ventilation and drainage and right species trees require very little maintenance. So basically tree lined streets and places have environmental, economic and social benefits. The planet is also fcuked without trees.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

It means you just can’t do things. How many city centre projects have failed in Coventry because the economic circumstances changed from inception to delivery? Belgrade Plaza, Friargate, CCS just off the top of my head. Spent years in pointless planning. Same as that derelict site by the ring road or a million other things. These could have been jobs then homes and businesses, instead they were nothing.

And it’s a democratic deficit. Old wealthy people who already live in these areas have the time and inclination to complain, younger people trying to move in have no voice to support. It’s not even direct democracy it’s something worse and more random.

People are terrible at this sort of macro level planning in their area. We’ve tried it for 70 years and it’s been an unmitigated disaster with ugly shit buildings still being built and infrastructure still not happening.

For me have an open democratic process that sets clear guidelines and presumes consent for anything within those guidelines. If you want to ensure every house is built in the style of a hobbit hole and all cycle lanes are banned then campaign openly on that and get elected on it, don’t organise whisper campaigns and socials for OAPs and get it cancelled with threats to local politicians. That’s mob level shit.

Wouldn’t have this problem without immigration
Reform policy

 

[shmmeee]

Wouldn’t have this problem without immigration
Reform policy

We absolutely would. We haven’t built shit for fifty years. Would it be as acute? Maybe not. But we’d absolutely have this problem as almost every anglophone nation does.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

We absolutely would. We haven’t built shit for fifty years. Would it be as acute? Maybe not. But we’d absolutely have this problem as almost every anglophone nation does.

Oh no shmmeee thinks I was serious

 

[Earlsdon_Skyblue1]

Absolute ill informed rubbish... they have inherited a complete fiasco from Johnson, Truss and Sunak. Main problem is big corrupt business not paying their way. Whether Kier targets those or not guess we'll find out whether he is genuine Labour or Tory Lite. Like Lampard ( but infinitely more complex) you have to give any Government 2 years to settle and start to make a difference. I'm not swallowing the Tory & Unionist propaganda that the Country's on its knees. Anyway didnt I hear Labour have just just sent back way more illegal immigrants than Tory&Unionists did ....thought you'd be dancing in the streets of Cov over this?

Absolute hysterical nonsense.

Really? Nonsense?

What's the current approval rating of Starmer?

You've spent 14 years criticising the Tories for everything they have done, which on its own is perfectly reasonable as they have overseen a complete shit show, but then as soon as your Labour get in and start being pulled up on things, you are plugging your fingers in your ears again and making excuses.

The irony of being told I live my life on twitter and need to look out of the window, by one person who thinks the world is like reddit, and the other who has admitted they haven't left the UK in twenty years.

 

[shmmeee]

Oh no shmmeee thinks I was serious

Got to take the milk nonces seriously these days sadly.

 

[shmmeee]

Really? Nonsense?

What's the current approval rating of Starmer?

You've spent 14 years criticising the Tories for everything they have done, which on its own is perfectly reasonable as they have overseen a complete shit show, but then as soon as your Labour get in and start being pulled up on things, you are plugging your fingers in your ears again and making excuses.

The irony of being told I live my life only looking out of the window, by one person who thinks the world is like reddit, and the other who has admitted they haven't left the UK in twenty years.

“Am I being hysterical? Look at all these other hysterical people!?”

Solid argument.

I only use Reddit for porn I’m afraid and I’m sadly aware it’s nothing like real life.

 

[Sky Blue Pete]

Oh no shmmeee thinks I was serious

We absolutely would. We haven’t built shit for fifty years. Would it be as acute? Maybe not. But we’d absolutely have this problem as almost every anglophone nation does.

Come on we know how easy this is just send anyone home who’s not white and they’ll be rivers of nectar and honey provided for everyone
It really is that simple

 

[shmmeee]

Come on we know how easy this is just send anyone home who’s not white and they’ll be rivers of nectar and honey provided for everyone
It really is that simple

Let’s see how Daddy Milk Nonce gets on across the pond with that shall we? Though I suspect he’ll find some excuse not to have “mass deportation now”