Election 2015 (7 Viewers)

Colonel Mustard · Apr 9, 2015

olderskyblue said:
Or you could look at this...

http://brackenworld.blogspot.co.uk/2012/10/did-ramesh-patel-get-paid-for-this.html

Always a different view to consider isn't there?

There certainly is - as I mentioned a couple of posts above yours:

"Read widely from opposing sources and resolve to investigate the merit of claims."

It's about getting started somewhere and bouncing around, even a messy and unsourced rebuttal like the one on that libertarian blog.

On the matter of media macro and the Labour profligacy myth: far better than either of those entries is the blog of Simon Wren-Lewis, an Oxford professor of economics.

bringbackrattles · Apr 9, 2015

If you want the Tories out you have to vote Labour as it's a two horse race as usual. All the parties have good and bad policies but like Otis I've had a bellyful of the same old parties but we have no alternative do we ?
Russell Brand who I can't stand by the way did talk a bit of sense in that Paxman interview though a few months ago,we would like to see something different but what that is I'm in the dark to be honest.Do we have to have politicians running our lives ?

olderskyblue · Apr 9, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
There certainly is - as I mentioned a couple of posts above yours:

"Read widely from opposing sources and resolve to investigate the merit of claims."

It's about getting started somewhere and bouncing around, even a messy and unsourced rebuttal like the one on that libertarian blog.

On the matter of media macro and the Labour profligacy myth: far better than either of those entries is the blog of Simon Wren-Lewis, an Oxford professor of economics.

As always, the problem is what version of events do we believe to make a judgement on? As I said earlier, with most I think, it usually comes down to who you've always voted for, and you'll always believe the articles that support your view.

To be honest, with the state the Country was in, Blair's War and Gordon's Gold.. I thought the Tories would romp home last time....

Tad · Apr 9, 2015

ITV are doing a show where they look at and discuss each leader. They've just finished looking at Nick Clegg. I thought he came off pretty good really.They discussed the lib dems and what they've achieved and Clegg even said himself that apart from that one plan (fee tuition), they've delivered everything key to their plans.

One of the reports actually pointed out that if it wasn't for the Nick Clegg refusing some plans from the tories during the coalition, we'd be in much deeper water too.

skybluedan · Apr 9, 2015

Tories have had there chance labour are shite if I was living in the uk it would Deffo be lib dem or even ukip
quite like Nick clegg and farage for that matter and the bonus is both are for legalising cannabis

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 9, 2015

Hmmm, that there quiz at the beginning...

I appear to be a Green Socialist Liberal... with a smattering of fascist tendencies!

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 9, 2015

olderskyblue said:
As I said earlier, with most I think, it usually comes down to who you've always voted for, and you'll always believe the articles that support your view.

Our system certainly doesn't encourage change, either. To be honest, after resigning my Labour Party membership over the demise of clause 4, I'm always looking for a proper left wing option that aren't a bunch of nutters (only leaflet I've had so far is from Coventry Socialists and... despite my desire to have faith, and despite the fact they'd give me a pay rise it's all a bit... unrealistic hot air). The Liberals ended up more left wing than the Labour Party, but then abdicated their right to my vote by falling in behind those who they positioned against.

I'd be all for an Ed Milliband led Labour Party with the shackels thrown off, tbh... but they're not getting my vote as it stands. As far as I can see, all major parties have a desire to make me redundant, too!

Macca · Apr 10, 2015

Neither Tory or Labour offer me what I want but on the other hand kind of feel like a vote for anyone else is wasted

Jack Griffin · Apr 11, 2015

Deleted member 5849 said:
Hmmm, that there quiz at the beginning...

I appear to be a Green Socialist Liberal... with a smattering of fascist tendencies!

Similar to me I suspect, the whole exercise shows that people have complex views that simply do not lie along party lines, in fact I doubt many MPs privately agree with their party policy wholeheartedly.

I find I agree with some parties on a few issues while disagreeing with most of their platform.

Well at least I found I am voting for the party I have the broadest agreement with, but I was shocked to see how much my views overlap some of the parties I wouldn't ever entertain voting for, I put that down to them making out they are more agreeable that they actually are for 'electoral purposes', if they ever got actual power we would glimpse their real colours and no doubt be repelled by them.

ccfctommy · Apr 11, 2015

Tad said:
It's interesting you say that Nick, as I've yet to have a single flyer yet which I find odd really.

Otis, I do agree and that feeling is probably more then accurate for a lot of people, but I do sort of think the Lib dems haven't been treated very fairly by the public/media. They were a minority power in the coalition and as such, couldn't get everything done. It also seems the tories have done a good job of passing the blame and taking the credit for some of their ideas during the coalition.

For me personally, the Greens seem dangerous for leaning too far the other way.

Do you live in Coventry? All three Coventry constituencies are safe Labour seats. That's probably why.

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 11, 2015

Jack Griffin said:
Well at least I found I am voting for the party I have the broadest agreement with, but I was shocked to see how much my views overlap some of the parties I wouldn't ever entertain voting for, I put that down to them making out they are more agreeable that they actually are for 'electoral purposes', if they ever got actual power we would glimpse their real colours and no doubt be repelled by them.

Sometimes the motivations can be different too. I can be all for a tax, spend and protectionist policy for industry, but that's to encourage employment full-stop.

The BNP also like their economic policy styled this way... I suspect their motivations are to keep Johnny Foreigner out!

Tad · Apr 11, 2015

ccfctommy said:
Do you live in Coventry? All three Coventry constituencies are safe Labour seats. That's probably why.

I do and I know how safe they sadly are, but you'd think others would at least try. It's quite shocking how safe they are mind considering how poor they've been.

As for the election, it seems this week has seen Tories and Labour looking more then a bit desperate with new promises. It's stupid and dangerous considering how badly things are at the moment. The new promises will require or lose them money not initially in their plans, resulting in it coming from somewhere...

Otis · Apr 11, 2015

Tad said:
I do and I know how safe they sadly are, but you'd think others would at least try. It's quite shocking how safe they are mind considering how poor they've been.

As for the election, it seems this week has seen Tories and Labour looking more then a bit desperate with new promises. It's stupid and dangerous considering how badly thinks are at the moment. The new promises will require or lose them money not initially in their plans, resulting in it coming from somewhere...

Yep. Sounds like desperation and trying to better each other.

Where were these policies previously?

Tad · Apr 11, 2015

Some were policies (like non doms), some are just completely new. Like Tories now calming to give the NHS in England 8bn. How they're going to just find that lying around, I don't know. It also goes against everything they said about not doing further damage "like Labour" by spending money they don't have.

Now Labour have claimed to be providing a one to one mid wife care if you vote for them. Again, where's the money? They're claiming to have it covered from mansion tax etc, but there's no actual proof any that will be enough. There's actually more evidence to support nom doms will cause less money to come in. The last time they taxed them, loads of them left, resulting in one sum of money only instead of a constant stream.

Macca · Apr 12, 2015

Both parties are living in fantasy land. Can only assume they have some form of magic lamp that they will be rubbing

sw88 · Apr 12, 2015

I'd worry if any of them get in power. I'd worry more if the SNP were in charge of all the UK, but strangely more so if UKIP won.

I hate Politics, and really don't know who I'm going to vote for

skybluedan · Apr 12, 2015

sw88 said:
I'd worry if any of them get in power. I'd worry more if the SNP were in charge of all the UK, but strangely more so if UKIP won.

I hate Politics, and really don't know who I'm going to vote for

Fuck them all mate vote cista

Tad · Apr 13, 2015

So, that Labour conference...

That was just pointless. They just went over everything they've been saying to the media and failed to explain how any of their policies will tackle the deficit. When questioned about it by the press, Miliband basically shunned it off.

Ashdown · Apr 13, 2015

sw88 said:
I'd worry if any of them get in power. I'd worry more if the SNP were in charge of all the UK, but strangely more so if UKIP won.

I hate Politics, and really don't know who I'm going to vote for

I'm not sure people want UKIP to gain overall control but many would like to see a dissenting and strong voice against the current 'cover up' by mainstream parties over the true value of European membership and the economic and social impact of mass immigration.

skybluetom · Apr 13, 2015

I'll be voting Labour or Tory, I'd never vote UKIP and the Greens are nuts. The only reason I will be voting however is because my grandad is a war vet and I feel I should because of sacrifices of those who've come before us.

I'm sick of the whole thing; everything they come out with is manufactured by a thousand spin doctors, particularly at this time of year. The Tory party overnight appear to have found 8 billion a year for the National Health Service, equally the Labour party has become the party of fiscal discipline overnight it would appear. Nothing to do with the fact that the Tory party are trusted with the Economy, while the Labour party will always poll better on the NHS at all.

You know what's going to happen to pay for the above (if they don't just outright break the promises that is) they'll just be tax rises and massive cuts. Our Armed Forces will continue to be dismantled by either. If the Tories get back in VAT will probably rise and social security spending will be cut (affecting those who can't afford it). If Labour get in they'll be hikes on indirect taxes such as Tobacco, Fuel and Alcohol, along with other stealth taxes; again disproportionately effecting those who can't afford it.

Tad · Apr 13, 2015

Did you mean you're not voting labour or Tory? Cause you just made a great argument not too

Deleted member 5849 · Apr 13, 2015

skybluetom said:
If Labour get in they'll be hikes on indirect taxes such as Tobacco, Fuel and Alcohol, along with other stealth taxes; again disproportionately effecting those who can't afford it.

If there's one thing that Thatcher's managed to do, it's stop any party being happy to say they'd raise taxes.

So instead we have this bizarre dance where people claim not to be, and everyone pretends they can support public services without anybody giving them the money to pay for 'em!

rob9872 · Apr 13, 2015

Sky Blue Tories

rob9872 · Apr 13, 2015

Lol just took test and I am 91% Tory 82% lib dem which surprised me. All my numbers are high though compared to others listed here. I assume you didn't do the extra q's? Labour was lowest at 61% but that's still in keeping with some scores where it was higher in the list. Very odd.

skybluetom · Apr 13, 2015

Tad said:
Did you mean you're not voting labour or Tory? Cause you just made a great argument not too

It's a lack of a credible alternative and a belief that given the cost people have paid, we should vote.

Vote Green? Yeah, we'll turn all our armed forces' bases into nature sanctuaries and not have an armed forces, we'll rely on some kind of local militia as a defense force. We'll go into permanent recession because aiming for constant growth is unsustainable. We'll give every single citizen a weekly income regardless of status or age, further education will be totally free for all, overnight they'll be massive % reductions in public transport costs and re-nationalization of all public utilities, a minimum wage of £10 an hour. Huge hikes in petrol duty, with the aim of phasing our all fossil fuels and go 100% renewable. The hundreds of billions this will all cost will all be raised by higher income taxes for those at the top and a wealth tax, apparently. Full-time work will be discouraged because we should all grow our own food and become self-sufficient, we can then barter our neighbors with these goods and exchange them for other things we may need. Consumerism is bad, full stop. No restrictions of any kind on immigration. That's what they believe, according to their website anyway. Their site may have been undated since as I'm not sure if they've published their manifesto yet, but those were all of on there only a matter of months ago when I checked. All barmy stuff.

UKIP - Their manifesto was nearly as barmy as the Green's in 2010, flat rate taxes, literally doubling the defense budget, selling off the health service, immediate withdrawal from the EU ect. They appear to want to be taken seriously this time as they've now gone full swing on certain issues, fully publicly owned health service; living wage; not doubling the defense but promising to maintain the 2% of GDP figure, which is obviously a lot more credible. I actually have an element of sympathy with the immigration argument, it does seem some what insane to me to keep importing cheap foreign labor when there's still 2 million unemployed and millions more under-employed. Survey after survey shows immigrants contribute more than they take out, it doesn't mean they're not suppressing wages however which is a massive problem. A kid who I went to school with set up a valeting business straight out of school; he waas renting a small unit and was making decent money. He was charging 12 pound a head 10 years ago, he'd easily do a 100 cars a week in summer working on his own. 4 Polish guys moved onto an old garage forecourt down the road and were doing it for 4 quid. He lost everything. I know there's a lot of builders, plumbers, sparky's ect in the same boat. That said, locally at least I still find there's a very dark undertone to how many talk about immigration. I also refuse to believe suddenly they're passionate about the NHS, rather than just electioneering.

That's the reason I'll vote either Tory or Labour.

Tad · Apr 13, 2015

I wouldn't vote for the Greens or Ukip either, that's why I think I'll go for the dems this election. They're ideas actually make logical sense and they're not rocking the boat too far left or right like Labour and Tories.

Ashdown · Apr 14, 2015

skybluetom said:
It's a lack of a credible alternative and a belief that given the cost people have paid, we should vote.

Vote Green? Yeah, we'll turn all our armed forces' bases into nature sanctuaries and not have an armed forces, we'll rely on some kind of local militia as a defense force. We'll go into permanent recession because aiming for constant growth is unsustainable. We'll give every single citizen a weekly income regardless of status or age, further education will be totally free for all, overnight they'll be massive % reductions in public transport costs and re-nationalization of all public utilities, a minimum wage of £10 an hour. Huge hikes in petrol duty, with the aim of phasing our all fossil fuels and go 100% renewable. The hundreds of billions this will all cost will all be raised by higher income taxes for those at the top and a wealth tax, apparently. Full-time work will be discouraged because we should all grow our own food and become self-sufficient, we can then barter our neighbors with these goods and exchange them for other things we may need. Consumerism is bad, full stop. No restrictions of any kind on immigration. That's what they believe, according to their website anyway. Their site may have been undated since as I'm not sure if they've published their manifesto yet, but those were all of on there only a matter of months ago when I checked. All barmy stuff.

UKIP - Their manifesto was nearly as barmy as the Green's in 2010, flat rate taxes, literally doubling the defense budget, selling off the health service, immediate withdrawal from the EU ect. They appear to want to be taken seriously this time as they've now gone full swing on certain issues, fully publicly owned health service; living wage; not doubling the defense but promising to maintain the 2% of GDP figure, which is obviously a lot more credible. I actually have an element of sympathy with the immigration argument, it does seem some what insane to me to keep importing cheap foreign labor when there's still 2 million unemployed and millions more under-employed. Survey after survey shows immigrants contribute more than they take out, it doesn't mean they're not suppressing wages however which is a massive problem. A kid who I went to school with set up a valeting business straight out of school; he waas renting a small unit and was making decent money. He was charging 12 pound a head 10 years ago, he'd easily do a 100 cars a week in summer working on his own. 4 Polish guys moved onto an old garage forecourt down the road and were doing it for 4 quid. He lost everything. I know there's a lot of builders, plumbers, sparky's ect in the same boat. That said, locally at least I still find there's a very dark undertone to how many talk about immigration. I also refuse to believe suddenly they're passionate about the NHS, rather than just electioneering.

That's the reason I'll vote either Tory or Labour.

Survey after survey has actually shown that in the long term and with the impact on services mass immigration has cost the country around £150 BN over the last 20 years !

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/464556/The-true-cost-of-immigration-148billion

Otis · Apr 14, 2015

Ashdown said:
Survey after survey has actually shown that in the long term and with the impact on services mass immigration has cost the country around £150 BN over the last 20 years !

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/464556/The-true-cost-of-immigration-148billion

Err, no offence, Ash, but that is the Daily Express.

I am as likely to believe them as I am to believe Tim Fisher.

Ashdown · Apr 14, 2015

Otis said:
Err, no offence, Ash, but that is the Daily Express.

I am as likely to believe them as I am to believe Tim Fisher.

Yeah I know but there have been other studies. The Tories piss me off as they love all this mass migration so their buddies controlling the multinationals get a glut of cheap labour whilst the rest of us will be asked to pay extra taxes to offset the impact on Schools, hospitals, transport etc ! I'm no xenophobe and appreciate the fabulous things many incomers bring to the country but we're not being told the real facts for fear of upsetting the PC brigade. As much as anything I am quite a nature lover and the impact on the environment is appalling.

Otis · Apr 14, 2015

Ashdown said:
Yeah I know but there have been other studies. The Tories piss me off as they love all this mass migration so their buddies controlling the multinationals get a glut of cheap labour whilst the rest of us will be asked to pay extra taxes to offset the impact on Schools, hospitals, transport etc ! I'm no xenophobe and appreciate the fabulous things many incomers bring to the country but we're not being told the real facts for fear of upsetting the PC brigade. As much as anything I am quite a nature lover and the impact on the environment is appalling.

What's the matter? Unable to go for your naturist rambles anymore?

jimmyhillsfanclub · Apr 14, 2015

I see Cameron & his bunch of toffs have gone straight to the tory default action for votes......bribe the rich by raising the inheritance tax threshold to a ludicrous £1m....

....bribe the poor by offering them discounts on homes they can't really afford & will inevitably end up in the private landlord portfolio within 5 years....

fuck 'em all.

I'm definitely voting for change......

Vote "None of the above" come election day.

http://www.votenone.org.uk/none_of_the_above.html

Ashdown · Apr 14, 2015

Otis said:
What's the matter? Unable to go for your naturist rambles anymore?

I can pal but there is so many people now I keep bumping into folk !!

bigfatronssba · Apr 14, 2015

This election is certainly not one to win. With the sort of cuts that still need to be made, and with every party claiming everything will be fine in the future, I predict the next government to be easily the most unpopular ever. Cameron has got away with the cuts in this parliament because everyone knew how bad the economy was in 2010, after talking up the economy so much in the last few months, people won't be expecting him to make the cuts that will happen.

Labour have also just ignored the facts that cuts will have to be made, instead making populist remarks about taxing the evil rich. If Miliband wins most seats, and has to go in with the SNP, that will finish the Labour Party. They have always struggled to win in England anyway, to be forever associated with allowing Scottish Nationalists to govern Britain would see them out for a generation.

Captain Dart · Apr 14, 2015

It is rather ironic that the devolution policy originally promoted by the Labour Party will ultimately lead to their demise as a potentially dominant political force in the UK.

Tad · Apr 16, 2015

Back to step one it seems for me. Really unsure if any of these are competent enough to run the country.

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