Election 2015 (2 Viewers)

[Colonel Mustard]

Survey after survey has actually shown that in the long term and with the impact on services mass immigration has cost the country around £150 BN over the last 20 years !

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/464556/The-true-cost-of-immigration-148billion

This may be a better resource: C4 Fact Check

The humdinger quote: "Not a fan of the European Commission? The OECD, Office for Budget Responsibility and University College London have all concluded that migrants pay more into the UK economy in taxes than they take out in benefits and public services."

So as things stand, you could say that immigration is subsidising the natives' standard of living.

 

---

[Tad]

The problem with those sort of reports are, for every one that works in ones opinion, there's another that goes against it.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

The problem with those sort of reports are, for every one that works in ones opinion, there's another that goes against it.

There's a matter of gravitas, though. You'd be hard-pressed to find three organisations as weighty as the OECD, OBR and UCL disputing their findings. They might as well give up and go home if their opinion is held in as much regard as that from an unexamined, unquestioned source.

Granted, it's tougher these days to separate the legit from the dodgy. There are, for example, a lot of vested interests out there who deliberately muddy the waters with doubt in order to neuter scientific opposition (the movie and book Merchants of Doubt goes into this in detail). They want you to throw up your arms and say 'I don't know.' And it's been shown that many newspapers today are willing to tell outright lies in order to suit their agenda, e.g. the stories behind the resignations of Peter Oborne and Joshua Rozenberg from The Telegraph, or this corking bit of whistleblowing about working at the Mail Online.

 

[Ashdown]

This may be a better resource: C4 Fact Check

The humdinger quote: "Not a fan of the European Commission? The OECD, Office for Budget Responsibility and University College London have all concluded that migrants pay more into the UK economy in taxes than they take out in benefits and public services."

So as things stand, you could say that immigration is subsidising the natives' standard of living.

I haven't read these but assume that they take no account of the impact on services/school/care/hospital/midwifery/transport etc. The immigration question isn't just one of economics is it either, the roads are a nightmare, public transport in the built up areas is struggling and we're digging up the countryside at an alarming rate to provide housing and infrastructure. Will some people be only happy when we have about 75 million people crammed into mainly England, polluting the air and fucking up the environment for everyone and everything !?

 

[skybluetom]

I haven't read these but assume that they take no account of the impact on services/school/care/hospital/midwifery/transport etc. The immigration question isn't just one of economics is it either, the roads are a nightmare, public transport in the built up areas is struggling and we're digging up the countryside at an alarming rate to provide housing and infrastructure. Will some people be only happy when we have about 75 million people crammed into mainly England, polluting the air and fucking up the environment for everyone and everything !?

'Migrants pay more into the UK economy than they take out in benefits and public services' so I assume they have taken that into account. Only between 8 - 9% of this country is actually built on by the way, so the idea were concreting over everything so also not true.

I'm not surprised they put more in than they take out, I've no idea on exact figures for this but I'd imainge most the people coming over here are relatively young, therefore healthy and not a drain on the National Health and most go straight into the workforce so they're paying tax without the expensive of us educating them or paying them dole money so I'd imagine currently they take very little out of the system. I tend to agree though, it is mad to have an open door policy to unskilled migrants for two reasons: these people will eventually need health care, they will eventually need social security benefits and they will eventually have kids that require educating. The second is wage surpression; it's simple supply and demand coupled with the fact many of these guys come from extremely poor countries relative to UK.

I wouldn't vote UKIP because they blame migrants and the EU for absolutely every issue we face as a country which is idiotic. They spout total bollox half the time. The whole 'anti-establishment' line from the privately educated ex city trader is laughable too. Comments with regards to living next to Romanians and being late because of immigrants were just crass and uncessary too, but we can't continue with the levels of migration we have currently, that's about all I agree with him about.

 

[bigfatronssba]

One I always find strange is we repeatedly hear that immigrants are "doing the low paid jobs that Brits won't do".

If their doing low paid jobs then they obviously won't be great contributors to the treasury. So what exactly are they contributing?

I also think there is a lot of arrogance by some who seem to think it is acceptable to steal another country's workforce.

 

[Deleted member 5849]

I haven't read these

Doesn't surprise me tbh.

 

[Grendel]

One I always find strange is we repeatedly hear that immigrants are "doing the low paid jobs that Brits won't do".

If their doing low paid jobs then they obviously won't be great contributors to the treasury. So what exactly are they contributing?

I also think there is a lot of arrogance by some who seem to think it is acceptable to steal another country's workforce.

No one is stealing anyone's workforce -- its freedom of movement of labour in the EU.

 

[Ashdown]

I'm not surprised by your head in the sand attitude to everything either wank face !

 

[Ian1779]

As someone who works in a school I can tell you that the most constant drain on resources is the white indigenous folk who didn't bother to gain any education themselves and now have bred and repeating the cycle. The children from outside of this country actually value their education and go to great lengths to make the most of the opportunity they have been given.

 

[Ashdown]

As someone who works in a school I can tell you that the most constant drain on resources is the white indigenous folk who didn't bother to gain any education themselves and now have bred and repeating the cycle. The children from outside of this country actually value their education and go to great lengths to make the most of the opportunity they have been given.

I don't doubt that at all. These kids and their parents are likely to be model citizens. If your immigration angle is based on persecution of foreigners and pathetic xenophobia then you are indeed racist. My discussions have only focussed on the economics, impact on services and overall population growth to a small Island country.

 

[bigfatronssba]

As someone who works in a school I can tell you that the most constant drain on resources is the white indigenous folk who didn't bother to gain any education themselves and now have bred and repeating the cycle. The children from outside of this country actually value their education and go to great lengths to make the most of the opportunity they have been given.

If immigration was reduced then there would be a labour shortage, which would enable the government to say to these scroungers take one of these jobs or lose your benefits.

Immigration is allowing a portion of society to think its acceptable to live life on benefits and sponge off the rest of us.

 

[Nick]

I have no issue with people who want to come over here and work there arses off.

I do have an issue with people who just come over here to get benefits and send the money back and play the system (as well as ones we already have)

 

[Sick Boy]

If immigration was reduced then there would be a labour shortage, which would enable the government to say to these scroungers take one of these jobs or lose your benefits.

Immigration is allowing a portion of society to think its acceptable to live life on benefits and sponge off the rest of us.

Offensive and more than a hint of racism.

 

[Sick Boy]

I have no issue with people who want to come over here and work there arses off.

I do have an issue with people who just come over here to get benefits and send the money back and play the system (as well as ones we already have)

I'm more concerned with those who avoid paying billions in tax, it makes benefits very insignificant in comparison. Still, the right-wing dominated UK media will always want society to place the blame at those who are easy to persecute.

Most people don't come to the UK to sponge, most of them come to work and are far better qualified and have a much better work ethic.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Offensive and more than a hint of racism.

Whom have I discriminated against? You offensive twat!

 

[bigfatronssba]

I'm more concerned with those who avoid paying billions in tax, it makes benefits very insignificant in comparison. Still, the right-wing dominated UK media will always want society to place the blame at those who are easy to persecute.

Most people don't come to the UK to sponge, most of them come to work and are far better qualified and have a much better work ethic.

So wouldn't it be better to qualify those who are already here?

 

[Ian1779]

Immigration is allowing a portion of society to think its acceptable to live life on benefits and sponge off the rest of us.

The government allows this to happen. It's a method of control. It's not exactly suprising is it that these group of people vote the least.

Then they get the media to spin the idea that immigration is the problem.

 

[Houchens Head]

I've never voted in my life. Can't be arsed. They're all the bloody same. I don't complain about government decisions because I don't believe I have the right simply because I choose not to vote. I really and truly don't give a rats arse who gets in.

 

[Otis]

I've never voted in my life. Can't be arsed. They're all the bloody same. I don't complain about government decisions because I don't believe I have the right simply because I choose not to vote. I really and truly don't give a rats arse who gets in.

You will when they decide to release Anthrax on the Isle of Wight.

 

[Macca]

As someone who works in a school I can tell you that the most constant drain on resources is the white indigenous folk who didn't bother to gain any education themselves and now have bred and repeating the cycle. The children from outside of this country actually value their education and go to great lengths to make the most of the opportunity they have been given.

I think indigenous is enough surely, whatever colour, slightly racist view. The rest I agree with from my experience.

 

[Houchens Head]

You will when they decide to release Anthrax on the Isle of Wight.

Pah! We have Anthrax on toast for lunch! A bit of salt 'n' pepper and it tastes luvverly!

 

[Captain Dart]

You will when they decide to release Anthrax on the Isle of Wight.

I thought that was a Scottish experiment, now where does Alex Salmond live?

 

[covcity4life]

i wonder how many chavs on SBT will be voting UKIP?

"i want a jobbbbbbbbbbb, i dont wanna work hard or learn though....but i want a jobbbbbbbbbbbbbb"

 

[Ashdown]

Latest Polls, predict that the SNP will take all 59 seats in Scotland. Makes you wonder how they lost the In/Out referendum ? How will this impact the British parliament ?

 

[Monners]

Latest Polls, predict that the SNP will take all 59 seats in Scotland. Makes you wonder how they lost the In/Out referendum ? How will this impact the British parliament ?

To me that says that the electorate want to stay part of the UK but want a proper Labour (socialist) party, and not the watered down Blairite version that we still have

 

[Ashdown]

To me that says that the electorate want to stay part of the UK but want a proper Labour (socialist) party, and not the watered down Blairite version that we still have

Big financial and industrial corporations and the global market dictate most policies for this country and others. I'm beginning to think it doesn't matter that much who you vote for, they haven't got that much clout to change anything !

 

[dutchman]

The media has brainwashed everyone into believing that the election will be deadlocked and the SNP will hold the balance of power.

I disbelieve the opinion polls and think the Tories will win a small but workable majority and it won't matter which fringe party anyone votes for.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

To me that says that the electorate want to stay part of the UK but want a proper Labour (socialist) party, and not the watered down Blairite version that we still have

To some extent. The rhetoric of the SNP is stronger for sure.

Trouble is, the IFS determined you couldn't slip a fag paper between the SNP and Labour's economic plans. If anything, the SNP will be more austere: linky

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Big financial and industrial corporations and the global market dictate most policies for this country and others. I'm beginning to think it doesn't matter that much who you vote for, they haven't got that much clout to change anything !

It may not be up your street, but it's worth watching the Miliband-Brand interview to see how you attack that problem. Miliband, unlike any of the other party leaders, has a track record of standing up to big interests.

 

[Ashdown]

It may not be up your street, but it's worth watching the Miliband-Brand interview to see how you attack that problem. Miliband, unlike any of the other party leaders, has a track record of standing up to big interests.

I utterly can't stand either of them thanks, I'd rather have a bath in tin tacks ! Milliband like all the others is just desperate for his day in the sun !

 

[Colonel Mustard]

I utterly can't stand either of them thanks, I'd rather have a bath in tick tacks ! Milliband like all the others is just desperate for his day in the sun !

That's a shame, because:

Big financial and industrial corporations and the global market dictate most policies for this country and others. I'm beginning to think it doesn't matter that much who you vote for, they haven't got that much clout to change anything !

...is exactly the same concern that Brand shares, and a political leader is willing to talk about.

There's no obligation to like either of them or the content of their discussion. But if this is a major concern of yours, then it'd be in your interest to hear out the only people of influence talking about it.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Russell Brand doesn't believe in democracy. His ideas about how to change things and just involve demonstrations, and power by physical force.

I have no respect for someone who doesn't believe in the rule of the majority.

Whilst I have no love for Milliband, I hope in that interview he showed Brand up to be what he is.

 

[Colonel Mustard]

Russell Brand doesn't believe in democracy. His ideas about how to change things and just involve demonstrations

Demonstrations and protests are a pillar of democracy.

and power by physical force.

Really? Any links/citations to back this up?

I have no respect for someone who doesn't believe in the rule of the majority.

Brand is a democrat. He just believes most elected representatives are servants to big capital rather than to the people.

Whilst I have no love for Milliband, I hope in that interview he showed Brand up to be what he is.

Watch and judge for yourself.

 

[bigfatronssba]

Demonstrations and protests are a pillar of democracy.

In a democracy, a demonstration is a right, however it would be very dangerous for any government of the day to take any notice of it. Would you like to see laws enacted off the back of a Sharia Law for Uk or an EDL march?


Really? Any links/citations to back this up?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/cel...ing-anti-capitalist-protest-outside-bank.html

Classy, attacking working class people trying to earn a living

Brand is a democrat. He just believes most elected representatives are servants to big capital rather than to the people.

Then he should stand for parliament and reform the system then shouldn't he? The opportunity is there for the public to elect him if they want.

Watch and judge for yourself.