Election 2015 (2 Viewers)

bigfatronssba · Apr 30, 2015

The problem is the public/media get the politicians they deserve. The biggest issue with politicians is lack of trust. Now if a politician got up and said the truth of "if you vote for me the next few years will be hell, but I will sort the country out long term". Another politician would get up and lie saying "I can end cuts and lower taxes and everything will be hunky dory". The public would just want to vote for the liar.

When a politician is honest about what they believe in they get ridiculed and abused. Left or right. You only have to look at how the right portrayed Michael Foot as a fool, and now the left are trying to portray Farage as a racist.

The public cant be arsed to do sort out their own healthcare, crime prevention, education etc. They want someone else to do it. Then when someone else makes a mistake (as any human will always do) they get angry.

If people don't want politicians controlling their lives then maybe there should be greater calls to give people control back over so many issues? Otherwise be a bit more forgiving over someone you have entrusted with control over your life, except that humans make mistakes.

dutchman · May 1, 2015

I disagree there.

His Highness the Prime Minister (descended from King William IV) is being scrupulously honest when he says he has no plans to "cut" child benefit.

He obviously plans to "restrict" child benefit to the first two children (and Tory spokesmen refuse to answer questions on that particular subject) but that is not the same as a "cut".

Covstu · May 1, 2015

bigfatronssba said:
The problem is the public/media get the politicians they deserve. The biggest issue with politicians is lack of trust. Now if a politician got up and said the truth of "if you vote for me the next few years will be hell, but I will sort the country out long term". Another politician would get up and lie saying "I can end cuts and lower taxes and everything will be hunky dory". The public would just want to vote for the liar.

When a politician is honest about what they believe in they get ridiculed and abused. Left or right. You only have to look at how the right portrayed Michael Foot as a fool, and now the left are trying to portray Farage as a racist.

The public cant be arsed to do sort out their own healthcare, crime prevention, education etc. They want someone else to do it. Then when someone else makes a mistake (as any human will always do) they get angry.

If people don't want politicians controlling their lives then maybe there should be greater calls to give people control back over so many issues? Otherwise be a bit more forgiving over someone you have entrusted with control over your life, except that humans make mistakes.

It's a fair point, I do not trust millipede given his 'we did not over spend the last time'. Last night. It will be interesting to see if he will do a deal with SNP after saying categorically he would not. Maybe he has lib dems in mind instead. I strongly believe the country is pulling out of the mess that the Reds put us in but it takes time, just think we will back to square one if we switch over

Otis · May 1, 2015

Covstu said:
As much as I want to punch Cameron, I cannot disagree with his approach. Bit cold but on the money for me!

Do not trust him as far as I can throw him.

Sneaky, smarmy, disingenuous, shady and not at all to be trusted.

And that's just his good points.

Ian1779 · May 1, 2015

I voted Conservative last time, and I think they have let down the country massively... no matter how much spin and bullshit he peddles.

The thing that gets me more than anything is working in an inner city school... I see child poverty every day, kids whose parents can't afford to heat their homes or feed their children more than once a day - it sickens me to the core. When I see that he is doing absolutely fuck all about eradicating it in the 21st century... and then telling us he can justify spending £70 billion on HS2 so some overprivileged c**t can travel in first class to London 20 minutes quicker than he could before.

Captain Dart · May 1, 2015

dutchman said:
I disagree there.

His Highness the Prime Minister (descended from King William IV) is being scrupulously honest when he says he has no plans to "cut" child benefit.

He obviously plans to "restrict" child benefit to the first two children (and Tory spokesmen refuse to answer questions on that particular subject) but that is not the same as a "cut".

Sure that was pretty obvious from the answer he gave last night, he was careful to mention only the first and second child at £20 and £14 per week respectively.

On the other hand I don't think giving out money for lots of kids is a good policy, so I do think the allowance needs graduating, but not as sharply as that!

Ashdown · May 1, 2015

Ian1779 said:
I voted Conservative last time, and I think they have let down the country massively... no matter how much spin and bullshit he peddles.

The thing that gets me more than anything is working in an inner city school... I see child poverty every day, kids whose parents can't afford to heat their homes or feed their children more than once a day - it sickens me to the core. When I see that he is doing absolutely fuck all about eradicating it in the 21st century... and then telling us he can justify spending £70 billion on HS2 so some overprivileged c**t can travel in first class to London 20 minutes quicker than he could before.

Completely agree on HS2, pointless environmental disaster for what ? More debt and more greed and speed to funnel more peoples money back into London. Globalisation, technology and overpopulation has created much of this poverty though. We just haven't got the large volume manufacturing jobs in the UK now to support employment for the lesser educated people, they all went to the Far East ! Companies are run now for the shareholders/shareprice too rather than the overall workforce so labour costs are forced to a minimum.

jimmyhillsfanclub · May 1, 2015

Ian1779 said:
I voted Conservative last time, and I think they have let down the country massively... no matter how much spin and bullshit he peddles.

The thing that gets me more than anything is working in an inner city school... I see child poverty every day, kids whose parents can't afford to heat their homes or feed their children more than once a day - it sickens me to the core. When I see that he is doing absolutely fuck all about eradicating it in the 21st century... and then telling us he can justify spending £70 billion on HS2 so some overprivileged c**t can travel in first class to London 20 minutes quicker than he could before.

I've done a little bit of volunteering at a food bank in a deprived ward up here......and whilst many of the issues & pressures our underclass face are real & harsh, I'm afraid a lot of them are down to piss poor choices & shit decision making by parents...not something that can be easily tackled or remedied by the political classes, even if they wanted to....

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

Covstu said:
It will be interesting to see if he will do a deal with SNP after saying categorically he would not. Maybe he has lib dems in mind instead.

He might not require either.

I strongly believe the country is pulling out of the mess that the Reds put us in but it takes time, just think we will back to square one if we switch over

tbf, growth is lower today than it was when Labour left office.

dutchman · May 1, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
He might not require either.

Keep on dreaming.

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

dutchman said:
Keep on dreaming.

I'm not dreaming. Just an objective statement.

dutchman · May 1, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
I'm not dreaming. Just an objective statement.

Labour has lost all its seats in Scotland and there aren't enough seats left in England and Wales for Labour to gain a majority.

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

dutchman said:
Labour has lost all its seats in Scotland and there aren't enough seats left in England and Wales for Labour to gain a majority.

This is true. No chance of a majority.

But they could lead a minority government without any formal deals.

Monners · May 1, 2015

Would have made sense for Miliband to cuddle up to Clegg rather than focus on the SNP - would have ben a more positive message, and maybe some discussions have happened already, hence his vehemence last night.

Incidentally, no seats have been won or lost yet - the SNP may well win al seats in Scotland, but we don't know yet.

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

Monners said:
Would have made sense for Miliband to cuddle up to Clegg rather than focus on the SNP - would have ben a more positive message, and maybe some discussions have happened already, hence his vehemence last night.

Not possible. The Tories have calculated that SNP fearmongering is good for business, squeezing the Labour vote in both England and Scotland. The Tory-supporting press have obliged and hammered these stories into the public consciousness every day. No way of avoiding the subject.

I'm sure Labour would be happy enough to do a deal with the Lib Dems (and vice versa) if the electoral math demanded it.

Ashdown · May 1, 2015

A vote for Labour won't change a thing. Last time in power they feathered their own nests and made sure they all had cushty jobs to move onto after they'd helped the bankers shag the country up. It was them who opened the mass immigration floodgates, them who sold off the gold for rock bottom prices, them who spent millions on pointless quangos. If I thought they could really spread the wealth and create more equality then fair enough but the reality is they hand out everything they can to the terminally useless and lazy and many of them off the last boat, put up taxes and not on the rich as they protect themselves with fancy schemes and expensive accountants...........no it's the ordinary working man and woman who ends up footing the real bill.

dutchman · May 1, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
This is true. No chance of a majority.

But they could lead a minority government without any formal deals.

So could the Tories and they are far more likely to in my opinion.

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

dutchman said:
So could the Tories and they are far more likely to in my opinion.

All the leading pollsters acknowledge that it is much more difficult for Cameron to do that based on the parliamentary make-up.

He'd have to defy history and hold onto most of his seats, despite a good chunk of them being within a few points of a swing back to Labour (and marginal polls show them going red). The Lib Dems are going to lose a lot of seats, and Ukip and the DUP have a hard ceiling on potential gains. In any case, the Lib Dems have ruled out working with Ukip.

This is why the bookies have Miliband as comfortable favourite to be next PM. He has many more cards to play.

Ashdown · May 1, 2015

Have the Tories categorically said they won't work with UKIP ? According to some polls I've seen they would collectively have 52% of the vote, others are less of course.

dutchman · May 1, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
This is why the bookies have Miliband as comfortable favourite to be next PM.

Do they? It's neck and neck according to Odds-Checker and there is always a swing towards the government party in the last few days:

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

dutchman said:
Do they? It's neck and neck according to Odds-Checker and there is always a swing towards the government party in the last few days:

Thanks for that - I may actually put some cash on!

You're probably seeing a post BBC QT bounce for Cameron there, but it will settle back to Miliband being favourite. The deck is stacked in his favour. Even Michael Portillo on last night's This Week declared Miliband the likely PM.

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

Ashdown said:
Have the Tories categorically said they won't work with UKIP ? According to some polls I've seen they would collectively have 52% of the vote, others are less of course.

Ukip aren't on course to win a significant number of MPs. Maybe two or three. The Tories' only hope of retaining power is with another Lib Dem agreement. If the numbers are so slender that they'd need to count on a handful of Ukip and DUP votes, then you'd have to imagine the LDs would walk away and talk to Labour instead.

bigfatronssba · May 1, 2015

With the rise of the SNP its difficult to see Labour getting a significant majority ever again. On the popular vote Labour have won in England twice in the last 65 years.

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

bigfatronssba said:
With the rise of the SNP its difficult to see Labour getting a significant majority ever again. On the popular vote Labour have won in England twice in the last 65 years.

And the Tories haven't won a majority for 23 years!

We're entering a brave new world of multi-party politics.

Ashdown · May 1, 2015

We're entering a world of bloody stalemate !

bigfatronssba · May 1, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
And the Tories haven't won a majority for 23 years!

We're entering a brave new world of multi-party politics.

True, and by the next election no one will have won more than 40% of the vote for 19 years.

If the seat boundaries were drawn more fairly, 2005 would have also been a hung parliament, meaning we would be now approaching our 3rd coalition in a row.

dutchman · May 1, 2015

The Tories are overwhelming favourites to win the most seats and that puts them in a very strong position to form the next government:

Macca · May 1, 2015

Colonel Mustard said:
He's a comedian popular enough to warrant world tours, mostly doing sell-outs. He's a bestselling author, hosted a very popular R2 show, and the movies he's participated in have grossed over $1bn. And now he's an activist with nearly 10m followers and 1m subscribers to his political video blog, outstripping the reach of most of the mainstream media.

He's clearly not nothing.

Disagree. He's often loquacious, but also sharp and spontaneous. Few people can wield the sort of influence he does without having a fair bit upstairs. As for his dogma - he's a critic of greed, exploitation, corruption and criminality by a ruling elite. That's a creed for high Tories as well as Brand.

What makes you say that? He may be wealthy, but he's not a hypocrite if he's willing to pay a higher rate of tax.

It doesn't have to be 'in front of you'. I don't get the appeal of Mrs Browns' Boys, but it's hugely popular. Brand has a massive reach and it's worth making an effort to understand why.

I'm a little short on time and don't have the Colonel's diction so I'll just confirm that I think he's a c**t

Macca · May 1, 2015

The election is a sham. I'm a firm believer that the parties are just a front to make it appear that there are divisions when they are all behind a common purpose

Otis · May 1, 2015

dutchman said:
Do they? It's neck and neck according to Odds-Checker and there is always a swing towards the government party in the last few days:

I'm voting for Any Other.

He seems the most honest candidate.

Colonel Mustard · May 1, 2015

Macca said:
The election is a sham. I'm a firm believer that the parties are just a front to make it appear that there are divisions when they are all behind a common purpose

True to an extent. The main five or six parties are all for a capitalist liberal democracy. Nobody is offering an alternative system to that.

But within that framework there is are massive choices to be made. Depending on how things play out, we may see an exit from Europe, the break-up of the UK, greater pluralism in the media, money moving from rich to poor (or vice versa), the public sector running railways again, a much smaller state, greater or lesser privatisation of the NHS, a change in the first-past-the-post electoral system, etc.

This will be the most transformational election we've had in decades, regardless of how many spoiled votes there are.

Macca · May 2, 2015

I think I'll vote Green. I mean they are nuts but I like the environment and animals! Struggling to connect with anyone else and I have voted for all 3 major parties in the past. Short of the creation of a "cynical moaning old bastard" party I'm stumped

skybluetony176 · May 2, 2015

My wife's late grandfather once told me that in his many years of experience he's came to the conclusion that politics has been a constant cycle during his life of labour giving the public some good times but always cocking it up and leaving the country in a far worse place than they found it making them incompetent. The tories then have to come in and clean said mess up making them unpopular.

I think a labour government in any arrangement will be a disaster for the country setting the recovery back years. Another tory/lib Dems coalition is the best way forward I think.

ccfc92 · May 3, 2015

Going for Conservatives personally.

Macca · May 4, 2015

Fairly sure the next time Labour get in they will be in for a very very long time. The Tories will only have themselves to blame for their weakness and complacency.
In fairness though such are the blurred lines that most Tory voters would be happy under a Labour Government and barely notice the difference for a few years at least. I think the most interesting thing will be the make up of any coalitions. I wonder how the Lib Dems feel about getting into bed with the Tories last time? Turned them into even more of a bit part player if the polls are to be believed. Even nutty Nige is better placed

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